I’ve found administering google groups fairly tedious in the past, and think mailman is a lot nicer to use. I’d be happy to offer hosting the mailing list on my server (e.g., wlug(a)lists.meta.net.nz <mailto:wlug(a)lists.meta.net.nz>, or I could do wlug(a)lists.wlug.org.nz <mailto:wlug(a)lists.wlug.org.nz> instead if that was preferred), which would mean you can continue to use mailman. If you’re happy using google groups, that’s your call though.

On 25/11/2014, at 7:31 pm, Wolfgang <wv99999(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I rather get off the list altogether than expose myself to Google profiling and advertisements Wolfgang

On 25/11/14 19:23, Peter Reutemann wrote:

...

...

As I recall, the suggestion made last night was to put this list on Google Groups.

Mainly to avoid the current over aggressive spam filtering and self-hosting.

The general consensus was to move the list.

However, we wanted to see what the other people on the list think and whether they're happy to automatically have their current address subscribed to the new list.

Cheers, Peter

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On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:31:33 +1300, Wolfgang wrote:

I rather get off the list altogether than expose myself to Google profiling and advertisements

Why? This is not exactly a confidential list.

Just for your information, Lawrence, because you have asked; There is a saying in German that underlies much of my thinking: SILENT WATERS ARE DEEP I use Linux since Microsoft decided (as from XP) to check what I do with my computer, and what not. Using Linux is more effort, it is not as user-friendly as is Windows, simply because it has a much smaller user base. I don't mind, I can do everything in Linux that I could do under Windows, and probably even more if I were to put in the effort to learn scripting and the command line. I like reading Peter's mails, it keeps me in touch with what other people think, When talking about Google, let's not forget that it's primary purpose in life is to sell advertisements - targeted advertisements. If I want to see these ads, I can open my mail in Firefox. As I don't, I open the mail in Thunderbird. This is software written outside Google, and all Google ads are removed. To be able to do targeting, Google does data mining on a large scale. Data mining only works if one's interests are narrow enough, and if there are enough requests for the same type of data that a pattern can emerge. Thus, as long as my interests are sufficiently diversified, data mining fails. But the moment I join a Google group, my interests are no longer diversified enough, and data mining succeeds. Think of the bomb that went off in Boston, or think of British soldier Lee Rigby. In both cases, routine data mining by the security services failed, and people are dead. I do not need to keep secrets, thus confidentiality is no concern of mine. But I do use occasionally Google Translate. As long as its output is as much rubbish as it is currently, I can be certain that no computer can understand what I am writing here and instruct a team of secret agents to come visit me guns blazing, as happened at a well-known Auckland mansion, and thus I need not look for encryption. Once I do go for encryption, a computer will detect that, and flying under the radar is over, and tor needs to be installed, and a password server, and . . . Gotcha??? Let's keep the ripples on the water small, and the pond deep! Don't you think the fish like it better that way? Or must they advertise their presence to the fisherman? Wolfgang On 27/11/14 12:50, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:31:33 +1300, Wolfgang wrote:

...

I rather get off the list altogether than expose myself to Google profiling and advertisements Why? This is not exactly a confidential list.

---

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On 25/11/2014 7:23 pm, "Peter Reutemann" <fracpete(a)waikato.ac.nz> wrote:

However, we wanted to see what the other people on the list think and

whether they're happy to automatically have their current address subscribed to the new list. a) I have only been affected by the aggressive filtering rarely, so my vote would be "whatever is easiest for the people who actually need to work with this... Stuff." b) I don't mind having my address subscribed automatically. c) Seeing some of the other comments on this subject, it may be worth looking into a non-Google-based mailing list? But again, no problem by me, whatever is easiest for Peter et. al.

Happy to move to another email list (auto-subscribe), as long as I do not get subjected to ads (I get enough already). Personally have not had any issues with this list. Elroy.

On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 13:29:28 +1300, Matthias Dallmeier wrote:

I joined this list about 15 years ago and have not had any issues, so my vote is to keep things the way they are.

Some of us have had ... issues.

On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 19:29:39 +1300, Jamie Curtis wrote:

Lawrence - would you like to enhance on your "issues" that you've had so the rest of the list have a bit more information why this change is needed?

These were discussed at the AGM. Since you’ve been on the list so long, you might remember my attempts at posting back in January-March of this year, and how badly they got garbled. That’s why I left the list. The only reason I am back is to discuss moving off the Waikato Listserver.