The systemd House Of Horror
Came across this link in one of the comments to The Register’s article on Fedora 26, rife with the usual anti-systemd moaning. “Here are some examples of how people commonly use systemd in an egregiously wrong manner ... Don't ask me why, so far, all of these have involved starting Java programs. Maybe it's Oracle in general.” <https://jdebp.eu/FGA/systemd-house-of-horror/>
Nothing in that is more recent than a year ago. More recently, all the top stories about systemd are about its complete and utter failure to live up to it stated goals, and how it has spread its instability and incompetence generously around other components it has no business touching in the first place. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/07/17/linux_4_13_rc1/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/07/24/underscore_domain_name_bug/ https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6426 On 07/25/2017 10:38 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Came across this link in one of the comments to The Register’s article on Fedora 26, rife with the usual anti-systemd moaning.
“Here are some examples of how people commonly use systemd in an egregiously wrong manner ... Don't ask me why, so far, all of these have involved starting Java programs.
Maybe it's Oracle in general.”
<https://jdebp.eu/FGA/systemd-house-of-horror/> _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
--
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 22:14:10 +1200, Bryan Baldwin wrote:
Nothing in that is more recent than a year ago.
Were those the good old days?
More recently, all the top stories about systemd are about its complete and utter failure to live up to it stated goals, and how it has spread its instability and incompetence generously around other components it has no business touching in the first place.
Well, “top stories on The Register”, perhaps. Would you care to amplify on this “spread its instability and incompetence generously around other components” bull^H^H^H^Hclaim?
[links to the site in question]
Funny how every anti-systemd comment on that site gets loads of upvotes, and any attempt to say anything positive about it gets downvoted. Like the comment that mentiond the systemd House of Horror has 2 upvotes and 5 downvotes as of this writing.
Seems the problem has to do with an interaction with a GNU component <https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/6335> -- remove that and it works.
It isn't that a year ago is more interesting generally, its that virtually anything about systemd specifically from that time is not newsworthy now. What is interesting is that Googling for systemd brings up bad news and has done all year. I've never heard of a story where someone reported that switching to systemd made life better. You can blame GNU for the behavior of their library, except systemd *chose* to use it, and did so incorrectly. The behavior they needed can be done with that library. But they screwed that up _and the users noticed_. Which is the point. https://gitlab.com/libidn/libidn2/issues/30 On 07/26/2017 11:34 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 22:14:10 +1200, Bryan Baldwin wrote:
Nothing in that is more recent than a year ago. Were those the good old days?
More recently, all the top stories about systemd are about its complete and utter failure to live up to it stated goals, and how it has spread its instability and incompetence generously around other components it has no business touching in the first place. Well, “top stories on The Register”, perhaps. Would you care to amplify on this “spread its instability and incompetence generously around other components” bull^H^H^H^Hclaim?
[links to the site in question] Funny how every anti-systemd comment on that site gets loads of upvotes, and any attempt to say anything positive about it gets downvoted. Like the comment that mentiond the systemd House of Horror has 2 upvotes and 5 downvotes as of this writing.
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6426 Seems the problem has to do with an interaction with a GNU component <https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/6335> -- remove that and it works.
wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:20:57 +1200, Bryan Baldwin wrote:
It isn't that a year ago is more interesting generally, its that virtually anything about systemd specifically from that time is not newsworthy now.
Is “newsworthy” how you judge the value of a product?
What is interesting is that Googling for systemd brings up bad news and has done all year. I've never heard of a story where someone reported that switching to systemd made life better.
I don’t know where you get your news, but try some of these: <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=systemd>. (YouTube is a Google property, so don’t feel like you are betraying your favourite “news” source.)
You can blame GNU for the behavior of their library, except systemd *chose* to use it, and did so incorrectly.
And they are in the process of fixing it. Interesting that no major distro has tried to put this new feature of systemd into production--except Gentoo. And I thought they were not in favour of systemd--have they changed their minds? Wonder why... By the way, do you actually have any experience with systemd? Or do you just go by what you hear?
No, newsworthy is how to judge a post. YouTube is just as hit or miss, with most of the videos about retraining people to use it, because it was just dumped in their laps like a dead cat. The point isn't that it takes some digging around to produce these reports, it is that the most popular search engine produces them immediately at a casual glance. Gentoo supports builds with systemd as an option, user's discretion. You might have been thinking of Funtoo, see www.funtoo.org/Funtoo_Linux_FAQ But who cares which distribution found the bug? The last turd dropped on us was found out on Ubuntu, see https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237. And the developer's response to that was just barking. He's not designing this for the systems that are in the real world, he's designing it for the system he wishes it would be. He's delusional. On 07/26/2017 03:02 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:20:57 +1200, Bryan Baldwin wrote:
It isn't that a year ago is more interesting generally, its that virtually anything about systemd specifically from that time is not newsworthy now. Is “newsworthy” how you judge the value of a product?
What is interesting is that Googling for systemd brings up bad news and has done all year. I've never heard of a story where someone reported that switching to systemd made life better. I don’t know where you get your news, but try some of these: <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=systemd>.
(YouTube is a Google property, so don’t feel like you are betraying your favourite “news” source.)
You can blame GNU for the behavior of their library, except systemd *chose* to use it, and did so incorrectly. And they are in the process of fixing it. Interesting that no major distro has tried to put this new feature of systemd into production--except Gentoo. And I thought they were not in favour of systemd--have they changed their minds? Wonder why...
By the way, do you actually have any experience with systemd? Or do you just go by what you hear? _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
--
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 18:57:46 +1200, Bryan Baldwin wrote:
No, newsworthy is how to judge a post.
I’m not sure what you are trying to say here. systemd is an actual software project, not a “post”. You didn’t answer my question, so I will ask it again: Do you actually have any experience with systemd? Or do you just go by what you hear? I might go further: do you have any Linux experience at all?
YouTube is just as hit or miss ...
Funny how you try to play down YouTube in this way, when you are more willing to give more credibility to Google search hits. Is it because the latter tells you what you want to hear, the former does not?
...with most of the videos about retraining people to use it, because it was just dumped in their laps like a dead cat.
“Dumped” by whom? Open-source projects are created by project communities, made up of people like you and me. If you want a distro guaranteed stripped free of any package that even mentions systemd, feel free to try Devuan.
The point isn't that it takes some digging around to produce these reports, it is that the most popular search engine produces them immediately at a casual glance.
And as I pointed out, the most popular video site produces helpful videos “immediately at a casual glance”. Yet you play up one while discounting the other.
But who cares which distribution found the bug?
Well, you mentioned that specific one, rather than any other. So it seems you cared.
The last turd dropped on us was found out on Ubuntu, see https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237.
systemd doesn’t handle invalid usernames, so the process ends up running as root. But it can only be started by root anyway. Why is this a “turd” exactly?
participants (2)
-
Bryan Baldwin -
Lawrence D'Oliveiro