Hey Guys, I have installed FC3 on my server machine and have noticed huge problems when running the latest kernel release, 2.6.11-1.27_FC3. When ever I try to copy a larger amount of files from one partition to another the machine locks up and just dumps millions of lines of what looks to be a stack dump, I left it dumping to see what it said when it stoppped, but after 8 hours while I was at work it still was running past too fast to read. I have switched back to the stock 2.6.9 kernel that comes on the CD and have no problems doing the same thing. Anyone else had any problems with the newer kernel pacakge? Side note, I had originally planned to run Ubuntu on the machine but couldn't get it to boot off a Raid 1 /boot and / on LVM, FC3 handled installing on this setup without an issue. Raymond
I'm having "issues" with my laptop lately. It too is running 2.6.11 (FC3 package). Often after I unplug my USB2 hard drive or camera it locks up solid. Never used to. Though it may also be the new 3rd party 512MB ram I installed recently. I can't be sure just yet. Regards On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 14:21 +1000, Raymond Burgess wrote:
Hey Guys,
I have installed FC3 on my server machine and have noticed huge problems when running the latest kernel release, 2.6.11-1.27_FC3. When ever I try to copy a larger amount of files from one partition to another the machine locks up and just dumps millions of lines of what looks to be a stack dump, I left it dumping to see what it said when it stoppped, but after 8 hours while I was at work it still was running past too fast to read.
I have switched back to the stock 2.6.9 kernel that comes on the CD and have no problems doing the same thing.
Anyone else had any problems with the newer kernel pacakge?
Side note, I had originally planned to run Ubuntu on the machine but couldn't get it to boot off a Raid 1 /boot and / on LVM, FC3 handled installing on this setup without an issue.
-- Oliver Jones » Roving Code Warrior oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 » www.deeperdesign.com
Oliver, I initially tought it might just be X locking up, so I tried the copy from the Console and noticed the stack dump. Switched back to 2.6.9 this morning, copied around 200 GB of data, and since that worked I was able to add the 200GB drive back into the degradded Raid 5 array which rebuilt fine. Run memtest over night a few times to test the ram, but I'm blaming the kernel package as I have not had an issue all day, the machine only lasted 5 minutes (under load) with the newer kernel. Would be nice to know what exactly the problem is but I have no leads at this stage. I am using two different IDE controllers in this machine so it might be a driver issue in the newer kernel. Ray Oliver Jones wrote:
I'm having "issues" with my laptop lately. It too is running 2.6.11 (FC3 package). Often after I unplug my USB2 hard drive or camera it locks up solid. Never used to. Though it may also be the new 3rd party 512MB ram I installed recently. I can't be sure just yet.
Regards
On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 14:21 +1000, Raymond Burgess wrote:
Hey Guys,
I have installed FC3 on my server machine and have noticed huge problems when running the latest kernel release, 2.6.11-1.27_FC3. When ever I try to copy a larger amount of files from one partition to another the machine locks up and just dumps millions of lines of what looks to be a stack dump, I left it dumping to see what it said when it stoppped, but after 8 hours while I was at work it still was running past too fast to read.
I have switched back to the stock 2.6.9 kernel that comes on the CD and have no problems doing the same thing.
Anyone else had any problems with the newer kernel pacakge?
Side note, I had originally planned to run Ubuntu on the machine but couldn't get it to boot off a Raid 1 /boot and / on LVM, FC3 handled installing on this setup without an issue.
-- Oliver Jones » Roving Code Warrior oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 » www.deeperdesign.com
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Every time it happens to me I'm in X and I can't move back to a console to see any thing. It is certainly frustrating because Linux is usually so reliable. I've not noticed anything relating to large IO though as you are experiencing. Just USB related stuff. In fact I'm going to launch into a Linux/USB related rant. USB, particularly USB Storage, support in Linux has always been extremely crap. I've never really found it to be reliable. It might not be Linux's "fault". It might be crappy cheap Taiwanese hardware that is the problem but Windows seems to handle this cheap hardware much better than Linux does. Back in FC1/2.4 days my Casio Camera's USB docking station didn't work right. I could never get transfers from the camera to work reliably so instead I used windows (which worked fine without Casio specific drivers). On 2.6 it seems to be much more reliable, thankfully. Currently I'm having the vast majority of my problems with my USB2 external HDD. It is based on a Prolific Technology USB ATAPI-6 Bridge Controller which Linux treats as a SCSI device (as it does with all USB Storage devices). Often if I unmount and unplug (or power down) the drive I can't get it to re-initialise the next time I want to use it. Linux just refuses to detect the device or if it does it just spits out error messages. Sometimes I can remove all the USB kernel modules and reinsert them and the kernel recovers. Other times it "half" works, the bus detects the device but mount just locks up trying to mount the VFAT file system on the HDD. And as I've previously stated other times the whole machine just locks up a few seconds after I've removed the device from the system. On the whole, fucking crap. Perhaps one day we'll have decent USB storage support in Linux. Until that day I'll just continue to bitch as I don't have the knowledge to fix it myself. *sigh* The only reason I even want to turn off my external HDD most of the time is because when idle it makes this annoying ticking noise every few minutes that lasts for about 20 seconds. Almost like it is scanning the hard disk for some reason. I have no idea why it does this but it bugs me. Regards On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 16:15 +1000, Raymond Burgess wrote:
Oliver,
I initially tought it might just be X locking up, so I tried the copy from the Console and noticed the stack dump.
Switched back to 2.6.9 this morning, copied around 200 GB of data, and since that worked I was able to add the 200GB drive back into the degradded Raid 5 array which rebuilt fine.
Run memtest over night a few times to test the ram, but I'm blaming the kernel package as I have not had an issue all day, the machine only lasted 5 minutes (under load) with the newer kernel.
Would be nice to know what exactly the problem is but I have no leads at this stage. I am using two different IDE controllers in this machine so it might be a driver issue in the newer kernel.
Ray
-- Oliver Jones » Roving Code Warrior oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 » www.deeperdesign.com
In fact I'm going to launch into a Linux/USB related rant. USB, particularly USB Storage, support in Linux has always been extremely crap. I've never really found it to be reliable. It might not be Linux's "fault". It might be crappy cheap Taiwanese hardware that is the problem but Windows seems to handle this cheap hardware much better than Linux does.
I've had the opposite experience. My first use of USB mass storage and linux was with RH 7.3 and an external USB cdwriter which worked cleanly on a brand new install of RH 7.3. Zero problems.
Currently I'm having the vast majority of my problems with my USB2 external HDD. It is based on a Prolific Technology USB ATAPI-6 Bridge
I currently own a New Motion 3.5" IDE-> USB2/firewire enclosure, and have had no problems with it under linux. I used to own an ICE enclosure of similar nature, but its power supply died, so I had it replaced. When the replacement died in the same fashion, I asked for a refund and changed brands. I also used firewire mass storage under linux, and found it to be very good with both devices I used. I didn't do a decent throughput comparison between USB2 and Firewire, but I suspect in both cases the single disk was the bottleneck. The only problems I've ever had with USB mass storage was when I was running a 2.6 -mm branch kernel, which isn't exactly surprising. One problem with removeable drives under linux is that mounting them in specific places becomes slightly tricky if you have more than one device. Under windows you just get 'next drive letter', which is normally ok. You need fstab entries to have things automounted under linux however, and if your insertion order changes, your device order changes, and so you mount things in the wrong place. There's a couple of fixes for this: I make use of udev at home, and dynamically create device nodes named specifically for the device I'm plugging in. Eg, my 512 MB memory stick gets assigned /dev/memorystick, no matter when I plug it in. Likewise, my external harddisk gets assigned /dev/external Another solution is the gnome-volume-manager, if you use a recent gnome. Not being at my home computer right now I'm a bit hazy on the specifics of this, but I beleive it rewrites part of fstab for you (yes, a potentially dangerous thing, but "safe enough" on a single user system). It'll then auto-mount devices for you.
On the whole, fucking crap. Perhaps one day we'll have decent USB storage support in Linux. Until that day I'll just continue to bitch as I don't have the knowledge to fix it myself. *sigh*
It's possible it's some combination of your controller and the device itself. It's also possible that the Fedora Core kernels are tracking some changes from the -mm series, which has caused some instability in some specific areas.
I also used firewire mass storage under linux, and found it to be very good with both devices I used. I didn't do a decent throughput comparison between USB2 and Firewire, but I suspect in both cases the single disk was the bottleneck.
I've never gotten Firewire to work. Though I've not tried hard. I actually don't even know how the Linux kernel treats firewire devices. Is it just like USB Storage systems?
One problem with removeable drives under linux is that mounting them in specific places becomes slightly tricky if you have more than one device. Under windows you just get 'next drive letter', which is normally ok. You need fstab entries to have things automounted under linux however, and if your insertion order changes, your device order changes, and so you mount things in the wrong place.
FC3's hotplug/udev support is quite nice. Sure the device order can change but it always mounts the drive in the same place. It uses the filesystem's volume label to name the mount point too. Eg my 200GB drive is always mounted as /media/SWAG as it's VFAT volume label is SWAG.
It's possible it's some combination of your controller and the device itself. It's also possible that the Fedora Core kernels are tracking some changes from the -mm series, which has caused some instability in some specific areas.
Yes it could be any of these things. On the whole, quite annoying. But I survive. Personally I wish we just used Ethernet for everything. At least that works flawlessly. Everything should be connected to the network. Sun's (now cliched) slogan of "The Network is the Computer" makes a lot of sense. Why can't we just turn devices on and they all connect wirelessly to each other. Or just if we're paranoid about wireless security just plug them into the wired network. Ah well, perhaps someday. Regards -- Oliver Jones » Roving Code Warrior oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 » www.deeperdesign.com
I've never gotten Firewire to work. Though I've not tried hard. I actually don't even know how the Linux kernel treats firewire devices. Is it just like USB Storage systems?
More or less. You load ieee1394.ko, ohci1394.ko and sbp2.ko, and a scsi-style device appears for each disk.
FC3's hotplug/udev support is quite nice. Sure the device order can change but it always mounts the drive in the same place. It uses the filesystem's volume label to name the mount point too. Eg my 200GB drive is always mounted as /media/SWAG as it's VFAT volume label is SWAG.
yep. I think udev finally got things right in a way that devfs could never quite manage. My USB stick is keyed off its serial number. Some of the udev examples are kind of contrived, but show up the flexibility. One of the more contrived examples is to do a cddb lookup on audio cds as they are inserted, and to mount them as /dev/$artist_$album (well, to symlink that to the actual device name anyway)
Yes it could be any of these things. On the whole, quite annoying. But I survive. Personally I wish we just used Ethernet for everything. At least that works flawlessly. Everything should be connected to the network. Sun's (now cliched) slogan of "The Network is the Computer"
This is almost happening. Ethernet connected disks (ATA over Ethernet, www.coraid.com) as a cheaper alternative to iSCSI. Also, you can get a fairly wide range of SOHO/home user "NAS" devices that you plug USB or firewire disks into, and it "just works" and then presents them as samba or NFS share. There are "media centers" along this line as well. Although, they are probably all running linux of some form underneath the covers, and might exhibit just as many problems as you've seen :)
More or less. You load ieee1394.ko, ohci1394.ko and sbp2.ko, and a scsi-style device appears for each disk.
Right. Nowdays I'd expect this sort of thing to happen automatically due to hotplug etc.
yep. I think udev finally got things right in a way that devfs could never quite manage. My USB stick is keyed off its serial number.
Indeed. I twiddled with my setup to get it to name my wireless card correctly. It kept getting names like dev1234 (where 1234 would change every boot). Made setting up a network tricky. Now it appears the wireless drivers I use can be given a module option to fix the device name.
Some of the udev examples are kind of contrived, but show up the flexibility. One of the more contrived examples is to do a cddb lookup on audio cds as they are inserted, and to mount them as /dev/$artist_$album (well, to symlink that to the actual device name anyway)
Indeed but very flexible, which is good.
This is almost happening. Ethernet connected disks (ATA over Ethernet, www.coraid.com) as a cheaper alternative to iSCSI.
Indeed I've read about Coraid gear. Very nice. Presents the ATAoE device as a block device to the Linux kernel. Has some limitations though due to its simplicity.
Also, you can get a fairly wide range of SOHO/home user "NAS" devices that you plug USB or firewire disks into, and it "just works" and then presents them as samba or NFS share. There are "media centers" along this line as well. Although, they are probably all running linux of some form underneath the covers, and might exhibit just as many problems as you've seen :)
Yeah. I'm occasionally tempted to get a NAS. But often they are more expensive than they should be. Ie, you could build a simple Linux NAS a lot cheaper than the off the shelf ones. Regards -- Oliver Jones » Roving Code Warrior oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 » www.deeperdesign.com
participants (3)
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Daniel Lawson -
Oliver Jones -
Raymond Burgess