Something just released - it will be interesting to see what the press does. www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR8077.html Wayne
On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 02:38:44PM +1200, wayne.luxton wrote:
Something just released - it will be interesting to see what the press does.
www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR8077.html
Did you mean ? http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR8496.html Cheers, James.
wayne.luxton wrote:
Something just released - it will be interesting to see what the press does.
www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR8077.html <http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR8077.html>
But hover over the image of Nandor and take a guess at what OS hosts their website. Also it claims utf-8 but uses Windows-1252, and we all know who's authoring tools do THAT. Am I allowed to mention this at the May meeting? Please?
zcat wrote:
But hover over the image of Nandor and take a guess at what OS hosts their website.
Also it claims utf-8 but uses Windows-1252, and we all know who's authoring tools do THAT.
Am I allowed to mention this at the May meeting? Please?
You're allowed to mention anything you like. :) It'd make for an interesting answer, I think. What I don't like is when "questions" are just thinly veiled excuses to try and show up someone's perceived ignorance, or have a go at them. Note, I'm not referring to you, or anyone in particular here Bruce, just a generic behaviour pattern I've noticed at some meetings. Greig.
In other words it might be good to ask: " I have noticed that the Greens website runs Microsoft IIS - do you intend to move this to open source? " Not - "Why don't you practice what you preach you hypocrite?" A couple of interesting views on their website: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.greens.org.nz They were running Linux in 2000 but switched when changing hosting provider. Their webhoster does appear to offer Apache: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted?netname=TASSOL-NZ,202.49.92.0,202.49.95... but doesn't mention much at www.ts.co.nz On Apr 6, 2005 3:06 PM, Greig McGill <greig(a)hamiltron.net> wrote:
zcat wrote:
But hover over the image of Nandor and take a guess at what OS hosts their website.
Also it claims utf-8 but uses Windows-1252, and we all know who's authoring tools do THAT.
Am I allowed to mention this at the May meeting? Please?
You're allowed to mention anything you like. :) It'd make for an interesting answer, I think.
What I don't like is when "questions" are just thinly veiled excuses to try and show up someone's perceived ignorance, or have a go at them.
Note, I'm not referring to you, or anyone in particular here Bruce, just a generic behaviour pattern I've noticed at some meetings.
Greig.
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Note, I'm not referring to you, or anyone in particular here Bruce, just a generic behaviour pattern I've noticed at some meetings.
What really gets me (in the case of both the Greens and a certain very vocal person at WLUG) is people who rant and rave about how great Linux is and how evil Micro$oft (sic) are, but still consistently use Windows and Microsoft where perfectly good Free tools exist. Fair enough if you have to use Microsoft tools because of work requirements. Fair enough if you're not a foaming-at-the-mouth anti-microsoft zealot. It's the hypocracy that bothers me. -- On June 1, 2001, Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft, told the Chicago Sun-Times: "Linux is cancer." Unsurprisingly that's incorrect; LINUX was released on August 25th 1991 and is therefore a Virgo.
On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 02:55:40PM +1200, zcat wrote:
But hover over the image of Nandor and take a guess at what OS hosts their website.
No need to guess. --- nmap -O www.greens.org.nz Starting nmap 3.75 ( http://www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) at 2005-04-06 15:09 NZST sendto in send_ip_packet: sendto(3, packet, 60, 0, 202.49.92.246, 16) => Operation not permitted sendto in send_ip_packet: sendto(3, packet, 60, 0, 202.49.92.246, 16) => Operation not permitted Interesting ports on greens.net.nz (202.49.92.246): (The 1647 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed) PORT STATE SERVICE 21/tcp open ftp 80/tcp open http 135/tcp filtered msrpc 139/tcp filtered netbios-ssn 443/tcp open https 445/tcp filtered microsoft-ds 513/tcp filtered login 514/tcp filtered shell 524/tcp filtered ncp 1025/tcp open NFS-or-IIS 1026/tcp open LSA-or-nterm 1027/tcp open IIS 1723/tcp open pptp 3001/tcp open nessusd 3306/tcp open mysql 3389/tcp open ms-term-serv Device type: general purpose Running: Microsoft Windows 2003/.NET OS details: Microsoft Windows .NET Enterprise Server RC2 (Version 5.2, build 3718.dnsrv.021114-1947) Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 41.053 seconds ---
On Wed, 2005-04-06 at 14:55 +1200, zcat wrote:
Also it claims utf-8 but uses Windows-1252, and we all know who's authoring tools do THAT.
Am I allowed to mention this at the May meeting? Please?
This a bit of a pet peeve of mine, especially since it means that lots of " and ` ' characters ("smart quotes") get rendered incorrectly. But users of those tools don't know that the tools are (deliberately) doing something that will work on windows PCs and not others. I'm sure if you politely point it out and explain that it is done deliberately, you might educate end users. But even many linux geeks will glaze over and ignore you if you start talking about character sets... people don't care - if it looks right for them, they assume it will look right for you. In this particular case, the problem is that neither the IIS web server nor the page specify a character encoding, so it's up to your browser's default. But I doubt Nandor has any control over the webserver. John
In this particular case, the problem is that neither the IIS web server nor the page specify a character encoding, so it's up to your browser's default. But I doubt Nandor has any control over the webserver.
John
I noticed that just after I posted. The page has no comments indicating what tools generated it; however the w3c validator reports several invalid characters for both utf-8 and iso-8859-1. It's clean in Windows-1252. I can't be sure that it was authored using a Microsoft tool and subsequently 'sanitised' but the choice of character set strongly suggests that. -- On June 1, 2001, Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft, told the Chicago Sun-Times: "Linux is cancer." Unsurprisingly that's incorrect; LINUX was released on August 25th 1991 and is therefore a Virgo.
wayne.luxton wrote:
Something just released - it will be interesting to see what the press does.
www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR8077.html <http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR8077.html>
But hover over the image of Nandor and take a guess at what OS hosts their website.
Also it claims utf-8 but uses Windows-1252, and we all know who's authoring tools do THAT.
Am I allowed to mention this at the May meeting? Please?
_______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug -- Oliver Jones » Roving Code Warrior
nmap -O www.greens.org.nz Starting nmap 3.81 ( http://www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) at 2005-04-06 18:22 NZST Interesting ports on greens.net.nz (202.49.92.246): (The 1646 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed) PORT STATE SERVICE 21/tcp open ftp 80/tcp open http 135/tcp filtered msrpc 139/tcp filtered netbios-ssn 443/tcp open https 445/tcp filtered microsoft-ds 513/tcp filtered login 514/tcp filtered shell 524/tcp filtered ncp 1025/tcp open NFS-or-IIS 1026/tcp open LSA-or-nterm 1027/tcp open IIS 1720/tcp filtered H.323/Q.931 1723/tcp open pptp 3001/tcp open nessusd 3306/tcp open mysql 3389/tcp open ms-term-serv Device type: general purpose Running: Microsoft Windows 2003/.NET OS details: Microsoft Windows .NET Enterprise Server RC2 (Version 5.2, build 3718.dnsrv.021114-1947) Nmap finished: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 29.351 seconds Looks like Windows 2003 Server to me. It also looks like they're running their own dedicated host with Orcon. traceroute to www.greens.org.nz (202.49.92.246), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets ... 7 orcon-dom2.akcr8.global-gateway.net.nz (202.50.245.242) 69.609 ms 69.244 ms 65.496 ms 8 tasman-dom.cpe.orcon.net.nz (210.55.12.154) 95.372 ms 100.658 ms 89.954 ms 9 greens.net.nz (202.49.92.246) 91.725 ms 92.792 ms 92.342 ms Of course badgering them about eating their own dog food will just cost them more money. Regards On Wed, 2005-04-06 at 14:55 +1200, zcat wrote: oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 » www.deeperdesign.com
He's a little bit behind :) A huge portion of our servers deployed are running Linux. wayne.luxton wrote:
Something just released - it will be interesting to see what the press does.
www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR8077.html <http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR8077.html>
Wayne
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On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 04:00:31PM +1200, Lindsay Druett wrote:
He's a little bit behind :) A huge portion of our servers deployed are running Linux.
The next step for Waikto Uni is to fix their site can be used with browsers other than IE. Then to knock out mandated .doc and .xls assignment submissions. These things hinder Linux acceptance among otherwise willing students. These are pet peeves of mine, as my missus can't drop IE/Windows completely since she still needs them to do University work. James.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, James Clark wrote:
On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 04:00:31PM +1200, Lindsay Druett wrote:
He's a little bit behind :) A huge portion of our servers deployed are running Linux.
The next step for Waikto Uni is to fix their site can be used with browsers other than IE.
I would be interested to know what web sites don't work. I use a number of Waikato websites, both internal and external on a day to day basis using Mozilla. The computer science department recommends that all students and staff use only Firefox as their browser and as such you should find no problems with CS sites with Mozilla. Management's MyWeb portal recently had an upgrade which caused Firefox to break. After reporting this it was very quickly fixed. I think if you politely report problems to the correct places you will find many developers inside the Uni are perfectly happy supporting Firefox.
Then to knock out mandated .doc and .xls assignment submissions. These things hinder Linux acceptance among otherwise willing students.
This is a department dependent issue. In CS as many staff and students use a selection of Linux, Windows and MacOS X so most staff encourage students to submit in .pdf, .html or plain text. If staff in a given department only have access to a windows PC and students are only provided a windows lab, then the school may well require submissions in an Office format.
These are pet peeves of mine, as my missus can't drop IE/Windows completely since she still needs them to do University work.
While I believe that .pdf is a better format to allow than .doc, I can see reasons that some schools will require things such as .xls. I believe that Management actually do some automated marking of spreadsheets which will be very tied to using Office macros etc. As such I don't think it's such a clean cut thing for them to just switch to open standards for submission overnight. Jamie
This is a department dependent issue. In CS as many staff and students use a selection of Linux, Windows and MacOS X so most staff encourage students to submit in .pdf, .html or plain text. If staff in a given department only have access to a windows PC and students are only provided a windows lab, then the school may well require submissions in an Office format.
Then install PDF Creator (http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/) on those machines. It's a Open Source and very useful PDF generator (acts as a Windows Printer). It is basically a thin-ish wrapper around Ghostscript.
These are pet peeves of mine, as my missus can't drop IE/Windows completely since she still needs them to do University work.
Regards -- Oliver Jones » Roving Code Warrior oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 » www.deeperdesign.com
The next step for Waikto Uni is to fix their site can be used with browsers other than IE. Then to knock out mandated .doc and .xls assignment submissions. These things hinder Linux acceptance among otherwise willing students.
.doc and .xls are only mandated by the Department (or probably the lecturer) in question - it is not a University policy. Not only do most assignment submissions in the CS department (where I'd suggest the highest concentration, or even *any* concentration of linux users is likely to be found) NOT mandate .doc or .xls, in many cases formats other than .doc are mandated such as PDF, RTF, HTML or even *shock* plain text
These are pet peeves of mine, as my missus can't drop IE/Windows completely since she still needs them to do University work.
I'm sure OpenOffice can save in a format that word or excel will read. I agree though, it is frustrating. When I was applying for my position in WAND, I couldn't read the job description because it was a .doc file and I didn't have easy access to MS Word at the time. Many other important documents were distributed in .doc format as well. This is changing however - more and more University policy documents are in PDF, or both PDF and .doc. WLUG has also talked with someone from the Management school, and one of the topics that came up was open standards. I'm not sure if anything has happened yet, but a few horror stories regarding the .doc format were enough to convince at least one lecturer that other formats should be used for important documents. When it gets down to it though, if you want your work to be marked you need to get it to the marker in a way they can read. Patience
On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 04:44:10PM +1200, Daniel Lawson wrote:
I agree though, it is frustrating. When I was applying for my position in WAND, I couldn't read the job description because it was a .doc file and I didn't have easy access to MS Word at the time.
antiword is a useful utility in this case. Cheers, James.
James, Which site are you talking about ? Does this relate to a particular school ? I haven't used IE for ages, but as part of my job, I've been on the main site, i-gate, webmail, some of the individual school sites, and I've had no problems. The web team have gone into great lengths to keep to the standards, however, there are individual schools do do their own thing which ITS doesn't really have much control over. As for assignment submissions, that really is up to the individual school, but that seems bizzaare. James Clark wrote:
On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 04:00:31PM +1200, Lindsay Druett wrote:
He's a little bit behind :) A huge portion of our servers deployed are running Linux.
The next step for Waikto Uni is to fix their site can be used with browsers other than IE. Then to knock out mandated .doc and .xls assignment submissions. These things hinder Linux acceptance among otherwise willing students.
These are pet peeves of mine, as my missus can't drop IE/Windows completely since she still needs them to do University work.
James.
participants (11)
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Craig Box -
Daniel Lawson -
Greig McGill -
Ian McDonald -
James Clark -
Jamie Curtis -
John R. McPherson -
Lindsay Druett -
Oliver Jones -
wayne.luxton -
zcat