Hi all, I am looking for a copy of Windows XP (SP2 minimum) or Vista (Business or better - 64 preferred) to buy. I'm only interested in a legitimate license and media. Unfortunately I can't afford a retail version of Vista and no-one seems to have XP anymore :( If anyone has bought a pc recently and wants to offload any "Microsoft tax" that came with it I would be willing to discuss it. Please don't give me a hard time for wanting Windows. I need to rebuild my PC and there are professional and personal reasons why it's not viable for me to go Linux only. Thank you James. -- James Pluck PalmOS Ergo Sum "Dear IRS: I would like to cancel my subscription. Please remove my name from your mailing list..."
I am looking for a copy of Windows XP (SP2 minimum) or Vista (Business or better - 64 preferred) to buy. I'm only interested in a legitimate license and media. Unfortunately I can't afford a retail version of Vista and no-one seems to have XP anymore :(
If anyone has bought a pc recently and wants to offload any "Microsoft tax" that came with it I would be willing to discuss it.
Please don't give me a hard time for wanting Windows. I need to rebuild my PC and there are professional and personal reasons why it's not viable for me to go Linux only.
As a general rule, OEM licenses that come with purchased PCs are subsidised by the manufacturer (Microsoft) for the sale of a new PC, and as such are not transferable. My opinion, last time I discussed this, was that I applauded someone who wants to pay for something that they attribute value to, even if it's not "full price". However I am reminded of the good Doctor's opinion at the time which I paraphrase thusly:: "if you're going to violate the license in any form, you may as well be pirating it". (I do not currently have an opinion, but thanks for wondering.) (It used to be quasi-legal to buy a piece of hardware, like a system board or a hard drive, and get an OEM license of Windows with.) Craig
On 8/20/08, Craig Box <craig(a)dubculture.co.nz> wrote:
I am looking for a copy of Windows XP (SP2 minimum) or Vista (Business or
better - 64 preferred) to buy. I'm only interested in a legitimate license and media. Unfortunately I can't afford a retail version of Vista and no-one seems to have XP anymore :(
If anyone has bought a pc recently and wants to offload any "Microsoft tax" that came with it I would be willing to discuss it.
Please don't give me a hard time for wanting Windows. I need to rebuild my PC and there are professional and personal reasons why it's not viable for me to go Linux only.
As a general rule, OEM licenses that come with purchased PCs are subsidised by the manufacturer (Microsoft) for the sale of a new PC, and as such are not transferable.
My opinion, last time I discussed this, was that I applauded someone who wants to pay for something that they attribute value to, even if it's not "full price". However I am reminded of the good Doctor's opinion at the time which I paraphrase thusly:: "if you're going to violate the license in any form, you may as well be pirating it". (I do not currently have an opinion, but thanks for wondering.)
(It used to be quasi-legal to buy a piece of hardware, like a system board or a hard drive, and get an OEM license of Windows with.)
Unfortunately this is not an option. I bought my PC "white-box" style a year or so ago and as such can't get an OEM copy relating to my purchase. I have a legitimate licensed copy of Windows XP (no Service pack) that I cannot use on my current system because it doesn't recognise an HDD over 130 ish GB (my primary drive is a 250GB unit that I had partitioned via a friend's machine to create a primary partition under the 130ish limit which I could then install XP no sp on and upgrade via the SP2 CD I got from MS directly. I now wish to run the HDD as a single partition drive). The license I obtained from Uni via the arrangement that the Govt had with MS but the copy of the media has developed a flaw and vital files are corrupted. Because it is an academic license it won't work even if I borrow a friend's legit media. I can't afford the $600-$1000 for an off-the-shelf copy of Vista. Off-the-shelf copies of XP are no longer available as far as I have been able to determine. I can't buy an OEM copy of XP or Vista because I don't wish to replace my PC (nor do I have the money to do so or I would just bite the bullet and buy a retail copy of Vista). I'm not interested in a pirated copy of Windows. I've just spent the past year steadily getting rid of all pirated software and replacing it with FOSS or licensed software. Linux is not an option because software I need professionally or personally is only available in a Windows environment. Wine 1.0 goes a long way to closing the gap but it's still not close enough for my requirements. I've long been a believer that one sources the software to suit the task and then sources the hardware to run the software. Currently the best fit is Windows based software. I'm not trying to bypass license restrictions. I'm just trying to find an unwanted new or secondhand copy of Windows XP or Windows Vista so that I can reinstall my ailing PC. I'm not asking for charity as I am more than willing to pay a reasonable price for it. I floated the question in here because this list has a large number of people on it who have access to a wide variety of software, hardware and knowledge and I thought there may be one or two who would be able to help me. J --
James Pluck PalmOS Ergo Sum "Dear IRS: I would like to cancel my subscription. Please remove my name from your mailing list..."
Linux is not an option because software I need professionally or personally is only available in a Windows environment. Wine 1.0 goes a long way to closing the gap but it's still not close enough for my requirements. I've long been a believer that one sources the software to suit the task and then sources the hardware to run the software. Currently the best fit is Windows based software.
If your machine is powerful enough, Windows inside a VM stack such as KVM, VirtualBox or VMWare Server is a good option. Performance is pretty good these days, the big issue is always RAM. I'm only pointing this out because it may let you get past the disk size restriction.
I'm not trying to bypass license restrictions. I'm just trying to find an unwanted new or secondhand copy of Windows XP or Windows Vista so that I can reinstall my ailing PC. I'm not asking for charity as I am more than willing to pay a reasonable price for it.
I floated the question in here because this list has a large number of people on it who have access to a wide variety of software, hardware and knowledge and I thought there may be one or two who would be able to help me.
That's fine, however if you're not interested in bypassing license restrictions, then purchasing a second hand OEM copy of windows is not an option. A second hand full copy, on the other hand, is fine. And yeah, it's probably "OK" for you to just buy someone's OEM copy anyway, but you need to be aware that it's still in breach of license. If it's just installing windows that's the issue, you could try this: Install windows to a small partition Apply all service packs plug disk into another machine running windows grow the partition to fill the disk, expand the windows partition You might have some luck booting from a linux live cd instead of disk 3, eg using gnuparted or similar, however I'm not sure how well they work regarding NTFS partitions yet. Ubuntu seems to manage to shrink NTFS partitions OK, so maybe it'll work fine.
Go to http://qmb.co.nz/c.aspx?c=Software&s=Software&ss=Windows and you can still get OEM licenses, provided you buy _any_ computer component with it. Felix On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:25:24 James Pluck wrote:
On 8/20/08, Craig Box <craig(a)dubculture.co.nz> wrote:
I am looking for a copy of Windows XP (SP2 minimum) or Vista (Business or
better - 64 preferred) to buy. I'm only interested in a legitimate license and media. Unfortunately I can't afford a retail version of Vista and no-one seems to have XP anymore :(
If anyone has bought a pc recently and wants to offload any "Microsoft tax" that came with it I would be willing to discuss it.
Please don't give me a hard time for wanting Windows. I need to rebuild my PC and there are professional and personal reasons why it's not viable for me to go Linux only.
As a general rule, OEM licenses that come with purchased PCs are subsidised by the manufacturer (Microsoft) for the sale of a new PC, and as such are not transferable.
My opinion, last time I discussed this, was that I applauded someone who wants to pay for something that they attribute value to, even if it's not "full price". However I am reminded of the good Doctor's opinion at the time which I paraphrase thusly:: "if you're going to violate the license in any form, you may as well be pirating it". (I do not currently have an opinion, but thanks for wondering.)
(It used to be quasi-legal to buy a piece of hardware, like a system board or a hard drive, and get an OEM license of Windows with.)
Unfortunately this is not an option. I bought my PC "white-box" style a year or so ago and as such can't get an OEM copy relating to my purchase. I have a legitimate licensed copy of Windows XP (no Service pack) that I cannot use on my current system because it doesn't recognise an HDD over 130 ish GB (my primary drive is a 250GB unit that I had partitioned via a friend's machine to create a primary partition under the 130ish limit which I could then install XP no sp on and upgrade via the SP2 CD I got from MS directly. I now wish to run the HDD as a single partition drive). The license I obtained from Uni via the arrangement that the Govt had with MS but the copy of the media has developed a flaw and vital files are corrupted. Because it is an academic license it won't work even if I borrow a friend's legit media. I can't afford the $600-$1000 for an off-the-shelf copy of Vista. Off-the-shelf copies of XP are no longer available as far as I have been able to determine. I can't buy an OEM copy of XP or Vista because I don't wish to replace my PC (nor do I have the money to do so or I would just bite the bullet and buy a retail copy of Vista). I'm not interested in a pirated copy of Windows. I've just spent the past year steadily getting rid of all pirated software and replacing it with FOSS or licensed software.
Linux is not an option because software I need professionally or personally is only available in a Windows environment. Wine 1.0 goes a long way to closing the gap but it's still not close enough for my requirements. I've long been a believer that one sources the software to suit the task and then sources the hardware to run the software. Currently the best fit is Windows based software.
I'm not trying to bypass license restrictions. I'm just trying to find an unwanted new or secondhand copy of Windows XP or Windows Vista so that I can reinstall my ailing PC. I'm not asking for charity as I am more than willing to pay a reasonable price for it.
I floated the question in here because this list has a large number of people on it who have access to a wide variety of software, hardware and knowledge and I thought there may be one or two who would be able to help me.
J
--
James Pluck PalmOS Ergo Sum "Dear IRS: I would like to cancel my subscription. Please remove my name from your mailing list..."
Unfortunately this is not an option. I bought my PC "white-box" style a year or so ago and as such can't get an OEM copy relating to my purchase. I have a legitimate licensed copy of Windows XP (no Service pack) that I cannot use on my current system because it doesn't recognise an HDD over 130 ish GB (my primary drive is a 250GB unit that I had partitioned via a friend's machine to create a primary partition under the 130ish limit which I could then install XP no sp on and upgrade via the SP2 CD I got from MS directly. I now wish to run the HDD as a single partition drive). The license I obtained from Uni via the arrangement that the Govt had with MS but the copy of the media has developed a flaw and vital files are corrupted.
Well then, your situation changes completely here. You have a license which is unrelated to your media. Why don't you rephrase your question as "Can someone please give me an academic media for Windows XP with SP3 so I can use my license key with it?" This is the way Windows works with large scale deployments, such as volume and MSDN licenses - you get sent a media kit (possibly at a small cost), with neatly pressed CDs, but you can go to Microsoft's web site and download the ISOs whenever you want. The bit you pay for is the license (the proverbial piece of paper, the practical 25 character key) and associated rights. I'm sure someone on this list will have got a license key from Waikato's involvement in the academic scheme. Ask them to give you a copy of their media. Hell, you could probably even download the correct media off BitTorrent or Usenet or something. You have a license key that someone has paid for, you don't need to spend any more money here. Craig
On 8/21/08, Craig Box <craig(a)dubculture.co.nz> wrote:
Unfortunately this is not an option. I bought my PC "white-box" style a
year or so ago and as such can't get an OEM copy relating to my purchase. I have a legitimate licensed copy of Windows XP (no Service pack) that I cannot use on my current system because it doesn't recognise an HDD over 130 ish GB (my primary drive is a 250GB unit that I had partitioned via a friend's machine to create a primary partition under the 130ish limit which I could then install XP no sp on and upgrade via the SP2 CD I got from MS directly. I now wish to run the HDD as a single partition drive). The license I obtained from Uni via the arrangement that the Govt had with MS but the copy of the media has developed a flaw and vital files are corrupted.
Well then, your situation changes completely here. You have a license which is unrelated to your media. Why don't you rephrase your question as "Can someone please give me an academic media for Windows XP with SP3 so I can use my license key with it?"
This is the way Windows works with large scale deployments, such as volume and MSDN licenses - you get sent a media kit (possibly at a small cost), with neatly pressed CDs, but you can go to Microsoft's web site and download the ISOs whenever you want. The bit you pay for is the license (the proverbial piece of paper, the practical 25 character key) and associated rights.
I'm sure someone on this list will have got a license key from Waikato's involvement in the academic scheme. Ask them to give you a copy of their media. Hell, you could probably even download the correct media off BitTorrent or Usenet or something. You have a license key that someone has paid for, you don't need to spend any more money here.
Thanks for that information, Craig. I wasn't aware of that. I have a couple of contacts in the Uni. I'll ask if one of them can download the ISO for me off the uni computers. Cheers :) J -- James Pluck PalmOS Ergo Sum "Dear IRS: I would like to cancel my subscription. Please remove my name from your mailing list..."
"Can someone please give me an academic media for Windows XP with SP3 so I can use my license key with it?"
AFAIK there's no special 'academic' edition, just the usual VLK one, and I have XP-SP2 VLK if you want it. I'll only let you have it if you can show me current student ID though, because otherwise you're not actually entitled to be installing it ;)
On 8/21/08, Bruce Kingsbury <zcat(a)zcat.geek.nz> wrote:
"Can someone please give me an academic media for Windows XP with SP3 so I can use my license key with it?"
AFAIK there's no special 'academic' edition, just the usual VLK one, and I have XP-SP2 VLK if you want it.
I'll only let you have it if you can show me current student ID though, because otherwise you're not actually entitled to be installing it ;)
Hmm - a current student ID might be difficult. Does it have to have my name on it? I could probably source a current student ID with someone else's name on it *grin* --
James Pluck PalmOS Ergo Sum "Dear IRS: I would like to cancel my subscription. Please remove my name from your mailing list..."
I'll only let you have it if you can show me current student ID though, because otherwise you're not actually entitled to be installing it ;)
Hmm - a current student ID might be difficult. Does it have to have my name on it? I could probably source a current student ID with someone else's name on it *grin*
At risk of getting my whip dirty as I keep flogging that dead horse... You may as well just pirate it, if you're going to do that. Of course, that's assuming that the "current student license" requirement Bruce imposed is actually a fact. When I acquired my WinXP license under the Waikato Uni CS MSDNAA license, I asked about this and was told that these licenses exist in perpetuity - they do not expire when you stop being a student. It would pay to check. Or, try one of the alternative suggestions that have been posted.
On 8/21/08, Daniel Lawson <daniel(a)meta.net.nz> wrote:
I'll only let you have it if you can show me current student ID though, because otherwise you're not actually entitled to be installing it ;)
Hmm - a current student ID might be difficult. Does it have to have my name on it? I could probably source a current student ID with someone else's name on it *grin*
At risk of getting my whip dirty as I keep flogging that dead horse... You may as well just pirate it, if you're going to do that.
Of course, that's assuming that the "current student license" requirement Bruce imposed is actually a fact. When I acquired my WinXP license under the Waikato Uni CS MSDNAA license, I asked about this and was told that these licenses exist in perpetuity - they do not expire when you stop being a student. It would pay to check.
I was of the same understanding. However, I will endeavour to clarify the licensing requirements of my current license. If I must get a new license then that is what I will have to do. It's par for the course in the current environment. However, If I don't have to fork out hundreds of dollars on a new license and can get an alternative legitimately for cheaper then I will use whatever option is most applicable. Thanks for your comments. J --
James Pluck PalmOS Ergo Sum "Dear IRS: I would like to cancel my subscription. Please remove my name from your mailing list..."
On Thu, 2008-08-21 at 15:03 +1200, Daniel Lawson wrote:
I'll only let you have it if you can show me current student ID though, because otherwise you're not actually entitled to be installing it ;)
Hmm - a current student ID might be difficult. Does it have to have my name on it? I could probably source a current student ID with someone else's name on it *grin*
At risk of getting my whip dirty as I keep flogging that dead horse... You may as well just pirate it, if you're going to do that.
Of course, that's assuming that the "current student license" requirement Bruce imposed is actually a fact. When I acquired my WinXP license under the Waikato Uni CS MSDNAA license, I asked about this and was told that these licenses exist in perpetuity - they do not expire when you stop being a student. It would pay to check.
You were informed incorrectly, the license exists in perpetuity as long as the user is enrolled or is a staff member or other eligible participant "in perpetuity" and is used for instructional purposes only. In fact the University, as license owner, is required to "take all reasonable steps" to ensure that software issued under their license is removed from machines owned by those who become ineligible. Using any Volume license to which you are not an eligible participant is piracy. http://msdnaa.eng.ufl.edu/faqs.html#qc4 The only NZ tertiary institution that I know of that actively enforces this is the Wananga. Cheers GL -- Graham Lauder, OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html INGOTs Moderator New Zealand www.theingots.org.nz GET DRESSED : GET OOOGEAR Gear for the well dressed OOo Advocate www.ooogear.co.nz Open Source Training, Migration and Certification http://www.openopportunities.co.nz
You were informed incorrectly, the license exists in perpetuity as long as the user is enrolled or is a staff member or other eligible participant "in perpetuity" and is used for instructional purposes only. In fact the University, as license owner, is required to "take all reasonable steps" to ensure that software issued under their license is removed from machines owned by those who become ineligible.
Using any Volume license to which you are not an eligible participant is piracy.
http://msdnaa.eng.ufl.edu/faqs.html#qc4
The only NZ tertiary institution that I know of that actively enforces this is the Wananga.
It might be worth checking directly with Microsoft NZ and verifying this before jumping to conclusions. My understanding (from reading MSFT documentation about volume licensing in general, and from having been given some ex-educational computers in the past) is that the licence is only valid for employees / students of the organisation with the volume licence. If the computer is sold or donated the software licence is no longer valid. I'm not certain that the same applies if the student / employee leaves and takes a computer with them, but that would seem logical. -- This email is for the intended recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient you must burn your computer, while standing on one foot and chanting the entire jabberwocky. The opinions expressed here are not necessarily the opinions of the person who expressed them.
It might be worth checking directly with Microsoft NZ and verifying this before jumping to conclusions. My understanding (from reading MSFT documentation about volume licensing in general, and from having been given some ex-educational computers in the past) is that the licence is only valid for employees / students of the organisation with the volume licence. If the computer is sold or donated the software licence is no longer valid. I'm not certain that the same applies if the student / employee leaves and takes a computer with them, but that would seem logical.
Further to this (and, I guess, contrary to my previous post): http://www.msdnaa.net/emea/FullEnglish_documentation.aspx ... 2. Do students need to uninstall the software at the end of the course? No, students are allowed to keep the software they have installed, but they may not check out or download additional MSDNAA software unless they continue taking courses from a member department. Regardless, they are still bound by the terms of the MSDNAA License Amendment. The department is responsible for informing students of the usage limitations governed by the MSDNAA License Amendment, and the department should periodically remind students of those conditions. Graham: I'd trust MS's documentation over the policy of an individual school. However, the terms of the MSDNAA do say you can't use the software for commercial purposes. So James, if you're wanting to install windows to have access to software you need for work, then this is still in breach of the agreement. I think this thread is pretty well and truly done by now.
On Fri, 2008-08-22 at 09:20 +1200, Daniel Lawson wrote:
It might be worth checking directly with Microsoft NZ and verifying this before jumping to conclusions. My understanding (from reading MSFT documentation about volume licensing in general, and from having been given some ex-educational computers in the past) is that the licence is only valid for employees / students of the organisation with the volume licence. If the computer is sold or donated the software licence is no longer valid. I'm not certain that the same applies if the student / employee leaves and takes a computer with them, but that would seem logical.
Further to this (and, I guess, contrary to my previous post):
http://www.msdnaa.net/emea/FullEnglish_documentation.aspx ... 2. Do students need to uninstall the software at the end of the course? No, students are allowed to keep the software they have installed, but they may not check out or download additional MSDNAA software unless they continue taking courses from a member department. Regardless, they are still bound by the terms of the MSDNAA License Amendment. The department is responsible for informing students of the usage limitations governed by the MSDNAA License Amendment, and the department should periodically remind students of those conditions.
Graham: I'd trust MS's documentation over the policy of an individual school.
True, and thanks for that link Daniel, it will be useful. I just grabbed the first one in my search that fitted. I think the critical factor is that a user can only continue to use it as a learning tool. If the user is no longer an eligible user then it is unlikely that it is being used as a learning tool.... Of course being an advocate of Lifelong learning.... :)
However, the terms of the MSDNAA do say you can't use the software for commercial purposes. So James, if you're wanting to install windows to have access to software you need for work, then this is still in breach of the agreement.
I think this thread is pretty well and truly done by now.
As much as anything it shows the mess that MS licensing policies cause. -- Graham Lauder, OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html INGOTs Assessor Trainer (International Grades in Office Technologies) www.theingots.org Open Opportunities ltd. Open Technologies Training and Migration Consultants http://www.openopportunities.co.nz http://openoffice.org http://www.opensuse.org OOoGear: For the Well dressed OOo Advocate http://ooogear.co.nz
Graham lauder wrote:
<snip> ... I think the critical factor is that a user can only continue to use it as a learning tool. If the user is no longer an eligible user then it is unlikely that it is being used as a learning tool.... Of course being an advocate of Lifelong learning.... :)
I have a sign on the door to my computer room at home that says "A Man's Education is a Lifetime of Learning!" J
You were informed incorrectly, the license exists in perpetuity as long as the user is enrolled or is a staff member or other eligible participant "in perpetuity" and is used for instructional purposes only. In fact the University, as license owner, is required to "take all reasonable steps" to ensure that software issued under their license is removed from machines owned by those who become ineligible.
Using any Volume license to which you are not an eligible participant is piracy.
That was the point that we've been trying to make. Thanks for clearing up the duration of eligibility.
My opinion, last time I discussed this, was that I applauded someone who wants to pay for something that they attribute value to, even if it's not "full price". However I am reminded of the good Doctor's opinion at the time which I paraphrase thusly:: "if you're going to violate the license in any form, you may as well be pirating it". (I do not currently have an opinion, but thanks for wondering.)
That sounds like something I've always said.
(It used to be quasi-legal to buy a piece of hardware, like a system board or a hard drive, and get an OEM license of Windows with.)
It was, and probably still is, completely legal to buy and sell OEM software with "any essential system component" .. I once argued this (on the losing side) and was directed to an FAQ page at microsoft.com which confirmed that even a $1 IEC power lead qualifies as an "essential system component" for this purpose. I don't know if it's legal to transfer OEM software or not. Microsoft's EULA has a not at the bottom that users in New Zealand may have rights MSFT can't weasel out of. I think reselling legally purchased software, no matter what Microsoft say, is one of those rights. Check with a lawyer... -- This email is for the intended recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient you must burn your computer, while standing on one foot and chanting the entire jabberwocky. The opinions expressed here are not necessarily the opinions of the person who expressed them.
participants (6)
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Bruce Kingsbury -
Craig Box -
Daniel Lawson -
Felix -
Graham lauder -
James Pluck