Re: [wlug] How Microsoft Can Lock Linux Off Windows 8 PCs
Any type of "locked" electronic devices have proven to be less valuable than their "unlocked" counterparts. It is not in the interest of commodity hardware manufacturers to allow MS to essentially lock their devices. A new industry in jail-breaking PC's is just around the corner probably.
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [wlug] How Microsoft Can Lock Linux Off Windows 8 PCs From: Peter Reutemann <fracpete(a)waikato.ac.nz> Date: Thu, September 22, 2011 9:51 am To: wlug <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz>
Just came across this gem here on slashdot: "Windows 8 PCs will use the next-generation booting specification known as Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI). In fact, Windows 8 logo devices will be required to use the secure boot portion of the new spec. Secure UEFI is intended to thwart rootkit infections by using PKI authentication before allowing executables or drivers to be loaded onto the device. Problem is, unless the device manufacturer gives a key to the device owner, it can also be used to keep the PC's owner from wiping out the current OS and installing another option, such as Linux." http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/09/21/062231/How-Microsoft-Can-Lock-Linux...
Network world has an article, too: http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/next-gen-boot-spec-could-forever-...
I wonder whether we'll have to start paying for "advanced features" like being able to put other OSes on a computer when purchasing one in the future... Does the EULA of Windows then still allow a refund if you don't want the software? Will you be able to install something else on the computer then? Or is this an opportunity to get lower prices on computers if they come with Linux pre-installed (no key necessary, no OEM fee)?
Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann, Dept. of Computer Science, University of Waikato, NZ http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ Ph. +64 (7) 858-5174 _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
On 22 September 2011 13:21, GJB <balle(a)auspira.com> wrote:
Any type of "locked" electronic devices have proven to be less valuable than their "unlocked" counterparts. It is not in the interest of commodity hardware manufacturers to allow MS to essentially lock their devices.
A new industry in jail-breaking PC's is just around the corner probably.
Or a new generation of PCs where Google Chromium sneaks in and takes 50% of the market virtually overnight. Sort of like they did with Android?
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [wlug] How Microsoft Can Lock Linux Off Windows 8 PCs From: Peter Reutemann <fracpete(a)waikato.ac.nz> Date: Thu, September 22, 2011 9:51 am To: wlug <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz>
Just came across this gem here on slashdot: "Windows 8 PCs will use the next-generation booting specification known as Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI). In fact, Windows 8 logo devices will be required to use the secure boot portion of the new spec. Secure UEFI is intended to thwart rootkit infections by using PKI authentication before allowing executables or drivers to be loaded onto the device. Problem is, unless the device manufacturer gives a key to the device owner, it can also be used to keep the PC's owner from wiping out the current OS and installing another option, such as Linux."
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/09/21/062231/How-Microsoft-Can-Lock-Linux...
Network world has an article, too:
http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/next-gen-boot-spec-could-forever-...
I wonder whether we'll have to start paying for "advanced features" like being able to put other OSes on a computer when purchasing one in the future... Does the EULA of Windows then still allow a refund if you don't want the software? Will you be able to install something else on the computer then? Or is this an opportunity to get lower prices on computers if they come with Linux pre-installed (no key necessary, no OEM fee)?
Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann, Dept. of Computer Science, University of Waikato, NZ http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ Ph. +64 (7) 858-5174 _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
_______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
A new industry in jail-breaking PC's is just around the corner probably.
Or a new generation of PCs where Google Chromium sneaks in and takes 50% of the market virtually overnight. Sort of like they did with Android?
How often does someone come in and take 50% of an existing market? More likely is that people invent a new market, duke it out for a while, and eventually a winner (or clear leader, if you will) is born. Microsoft won the desktop market. Google won the search market. Apple won the MP3 player market. Amazon, the e-book reader market. We may still be in the 'duking it out' phase for smartphones, though you could choose to look at it high-end and mid-range (Android's gains are at the expense of the feature phone, not the iPhone). Windows 8 is interesting in that it is trying to use one thing on both tablets and PCs. Windows 8 is obviously a response to the iPad - and a response which considers UX and design far more than anything the Windows group have done for years - but is there a tablet market to come? (Many have said there is no tablet market, there is only an iPad market, and I have an ignored TouchPad somewhere to prove it.) Depending how all-in they go with Metro, the corporate market may have a few years of staying with Windows 7 before moving to some sort of new thing. Could it be a Linux on x86 hardware? Possibly. It could equally be Mac, or web only on any device. You can't run other OSes on the iPad, but that doesn't stop people buying them. Companies will still make hardware with open firmware - though yes, it might cost more, and old computers don't suddenly stop working. Or just go buy a Raspberry Pi :) Craig
Well, if this was really in the interests of protecting the customer, it could still be a setting. When you try to change it there could be a warning "If someone asks you to change this setting, then chances are they are giving you phony computer advice. Don't listen to them. If they have a neckbeard, chances are they are trying to make you install Linux and then your sound card and wifi won't work entirely properly forever more." On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 3:49 AM, Craig Box <craig(a)dubculture.co.nz> wrote:
A new industry in jail-breaking PC's is just around the corner probably.
Or a new generation of PCs where Google Chromium sneaks in and takes 50% of the market virtually overnight. Sort of like they did with Android?
How often does someone come in and take 50% of an existing market? More likely is that people invent a new market, duke it out for a while, and eventually a winner (or clear leader, if you will) is born. Microsoft won the desktop market. Google won the search market. Apple won the MP3 player market. Amazon, the e-book reader market. We may still be in the 'duking it out' phase for smartphones, though you could choose to look at it high-end and mid-range (Android's gains are at the expense of the feature phone, not the iPhone). Windows 8 is interesting in that it is trying to use one thing on both tablets and PCs. Windows 8 is obviously a response to the iPad - and a response which considers UX and design far more than anything the Windows group have done for years - but is there a tablet market to come? (Many have said there is no tablet market, there is only an iPad market, and I have an ignored TouchPad somewhere to prove it.) Depending how all-in they go with Metro, the corporate market may have a few years of staying with Windows 7 before moving to some sort of new thing. Could it be a Linux on x86 hardware? Possibly. It could equally be Mac, or web only on any device. You can't run other OSes on the iPad, but that doesn't stop people buying them. Companies will still make hardware with open firmware - though yes, it might cost more, and old computers don't suddenly stop working. Or just go buy a Raspberry Pi :) Craig
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From what little I have read about uefi secure booting it sounds like a decent feature if not abused from a monopoly, in which case surely they will have yet another anti-trust case on their hands. The problem is likely to be with cheap hardware. Whats intel market share of x86 like, could they do the same? Arm nothing could be done to try mandate other keys, which seems wrong in the first place.
Matthew Garret who was linked in the slashdot had a couple of follow up posts [1] http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/5850.html [2] http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/6054.html Ronnie
participants (5)
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Bruce Kingsbury -
Craig Box -
GJB -
Ronnie Collinson -
Sam Douglas