I've deleted the email I was going to respond to... damn. Anyway, regarding LLU, the PDF pointed to makes a good point. Really people should be trying to get access to the ground so they can lay fibre. There is some sort of ruling in NY that makes it compulsory for all utility companies to co-operate on all ditch digging activities. If one company wants to lay a cable all other companies must also lay cable in the same ditch. If they don't they can't dig up the same part of the street for some long period of time. I believe this bylaw was put in place because NY city residents were complaining bitterly about the near constant road works and such due to cable/telecoms companies. Regards
Alternatively Oliver Jones wrote:
If one company wants to lay a cable all other companies must also lay cable in the same ditch.
Make sure a cable duct is put in, and then others have to use the same duct having their wires pulled in (for a suitable fee) Fibre is fine for Auckland City, Christchurch or parts of Wellington and up the coastline, but, I doubt I'll see one going into Taumaranui, Huntly or Ngaruawahia in a hurry The Big problems here will be Geographic in Nature One of the best options IMHO would be to get BCL to use the back haul line for data, set up feeds and radio systems, and move all TV to Satellite to free spectrum for radio based internet signals. They could resell to local ISP doing wireless networks for the short haul and High speed to the BCL backbone But then again they tried that as a probe project and were discarded in favour of Telecom's ADSL so who knows Perhaps if the incentives are right Vodafone will expand the Current 1GB cap on the $49 plan they are offering at present. The network is already in place, Maybe a probe like handout would help them roll out such a plan. Maybe when Opus D1 goes live we might get a satellite option, but I don't know what the elevation angle will be on that right now. .. or the Latency
Gavin Denby wrote:
The Big problems here will be Geographic in Nature
No not Geographic, demographic. They will only deploy Fibre to those rich enough to pay for it. Most of Telecom's trunk network is Fibre. It is only the very edges of the network that is copper in most towns. That is why it took so frickin' long for them to deploy ADSL. They couldn't just slap a DSLAM at a central exchange. DSL only works on copper. They had to put gear in the green boxes next to the road and in the ground to convert between Fibre and copper. That is what happened in my parent's neighbourhood. For ages the reason Telecom kept giving me for why they couldn't install DSL (even though the town centre had been connected for months) was because the main trunk line to my parents neighbourhood was Fibre. And my parents live in one of the most prosperous neighbourhoods in their town.
One of the best options IMHO would be to get BCL to use the back haul line for data, set up feeds and radio systems, and move all TV to Satellite to free spectrum for radio based internet signals. They could resell to local ISP doing wireless networks for the short haul and High speed to the BCL backbone
Wireless is arse. Handy but still arse. It requires more equipment, more technical knowledge/man power to install, etc. Nothing beats plugging something in to an existing wall socket for ease of use & cost. If anyone has a chance at beating up on Telecom for broadband on something that's not delivered over telephone lines it is the power companies. They have the entire country wired already and with better quality cable. I want fibre. We'll get it eventually but it's going to take a while. Regards
Oliver Jones wrote:
I've deleted the email I was going to respond to... damn. Anyway, regarding LLU, the PDF pointed to makes a good point. Really people should be trying to get access to the ground so they can lay fibre.
Exactly... <rant> I personally thought Saturn (now TelstraSaturn) had the right idea, pity they targetted the wrong audience in the first instance. They targetted the richie rich areas and put their cables overhead (and then had to put their cables underground), the customer takeup wasn't that great, if they targetted the sub-socieconomic areas first, then they would have been fine as the customer take up would have been desireable and needless to say, the overhead cables is a standard feature in the getto. If you guys are not convinced, go for a drive down poets corner, murder triange, etc (or Otara if you're in Auckland) and then drive through Harrowfield, etc and tell me the difference with the density of the Sky Digital Dishes. </rant> The fact is that if a provider used the local loop, Telecom is still in the picture charging the market entrants the Rack Unit telehousing and a lease for the twisted pair between the local exchange and the customers demarcation point. Also, who is providing the link between the provider and the local exchange ?
There is some sort of ruling in NY that makes it compulsory for all utility companies to co-operate on all ditch digging activities. If one company wants to lay a cable all other companies must also lay cable in the same ditch. If they don't they can't dig up the same part of the street for some long period of time. I believe this bylaw was put in place because NY city residents were complaining bitterly about the near constant road works and such due to cable/telecoms companies.
That is not as easy as it sounds... There needs to be a lot of *fundamental* law changes to make that happen.
I wish for fibre, but I know I will NEVER see it. Its a dream for NZ and its always been a dream for NZ. I say this as someone who has installed, Joined and maintained fibre networks. <rant>
I personally thought Saturn (now TelstraSaturn) had the right idea, pity they targetted the wrong audience in the first instance. They targetted the richie rich areas and put their cables overhead (and then had to put their cables underground), the customer takeup wasn't that great, if they targetted the sub-socieconomic areas first, then they would have been fine as the customer take up would have been desireable and needless to say, the overhead cables is a standard feature in the getto. If you guys are not convinced, go for a drive down poets corner, murder triange, etc (or Otara if you're in Auckland) and then drive through Harrowfield, etc and tell me the difference with the density of the Sky Digital Dishes. </rant>
Fibre is a beautiful dream .. New Zealand is still a rural country. Fibre will never work outside of CBD's NZ is just too damn spread out and too few people per KM. Its why sky use satellite not Cable TV solutions. The one hope for fibre is Cable TV and Internet, but SKY have the TV side sewen up, so .. too late.
The fact is that if a provider used the local loop, Telecom is still in the picture charging the market entrants the Rack Unit telehousing and a lease for the twisted pair between the local exchange and the customers demarcation point. Also, who is providing the link between the provider and the local exchange ?
BUT the unbundle is at prices set by regulators, not telecom. Unbundling is too late to be a total answer, but not too late to be an answer. With no telecom input the lease is one off. Telecom used to control it all, ISP's could only resell what Telecom wanted to offer, now telecom can only charge a single fee and we get what we choose from there on in. Data caps, Speed, concentration rates and Technology now are at the discretion of the ISP's Companies like woosh get a chance to add phone service to data, Vodafone can use Cellphones for Data and Local calls too. If the local loop is unbundled WE DON"T HAVE TO USE TELECOM !!!! I can have my ISP handle my phone calls over voip too. This adds incentive for other providers to get to work and offer services outside the current ADSL. And I stick by the view that BCL has a fantastic backbone ready to go if the Crown gives them the nod. With TVNZ on Satellite later this year, they will need something to do. "I speak as an expert in Explosives .... The Bomb will never work" Some General about the Atomic Bomb ... So I could be just as dumb as he, but We will see. Given that most of NZ cant get decent TV I wonder how we will manage decent 2 way without this first step. But 1-3 years to wait ... thats worse than seeing the presents wrapped under he tree and hoping the that box is .................... ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 09:09:02PM +1200, Lindsay Druett wrote:
<rant> I personally thought Saturn (now TelstraSaturn) had the right idea, pity they targetted the wrong audience in the first instance. They targetted the richie rich areas and put their cables overhead (and then had to put their cables underground), the customer takeup wasn't that great, if they targetted the sub-socieconomic areas first, then they would have been fine [...]
? I don't know if you're familiar with Chch suburbs at all, but it isn't all the 'richie rich' suburbs that have it: http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/products/help/christchurch_coverage.cfm (hint - the richest suburbs are in the north west). John
John R. McPherson wrote:
? I don't know if you're familiar with Chch suburbs at all, but it isn't all the 'richie rich' suburbs that have it:
http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/products/help/christchurch_coverage.cfm
(hint - the richest suburbs are in the north west).
John
Mmm... Hoon Hay... (Sounds like boy racers paradise) :)
Exactly...
<rant> I personally thought Saturn (now TelstraSaturn) had the right idea, pity they targetted the wrong audience in the first instance. They targetted the richie rich areas and put their cables overhead (and then had to put their cables underground), the customer takeup wasn't that great, if they targetted the sub-socieconomic areas first, then they would have been fine as the customer take up would have been desireable and needless to say, the overhead cables is a standard feature in the getto. If you guys are not convinced, go for a drive down poets corner, murder triange, etc (or Otara if you're in Auckland) and then drive through Harrowfield, etc and tell me the difference with the density of the Sky Digital Dishes. </rant>
You're right. In fact I saw a sky dish attached to a run down old wooden house (really a shack) not much larger than a set of public toilets south of Waiuru on a trip to Welly once. Made me laugh.
The fact is that if a provider used the local loop, Telecom is still in the picture charging the market entrants the Rack Unit telehousing and a lease for the twisted pair between the local exchange and the customers demarcation point. Also, who is providing the link between the provider and the local exchange ?
Well Telstra has a national fibre trunk so there can be some competition between Telecom and them at the wholesale trunk access end. Regards
Oliver Jones wrote:
I've deleted the email I was going to respond to... damn. Anyway, regarding LLU, the PDF pointed to makes a good point. Really people should be trying to get access to the ground so they can lay fibre.
There is some sort of ruling in NY that makes it compulsory for all utility companies to co-operate on all ditch digging activities. If one company wants to lay a cable all other companies must also lay cable in the same ditch. If they don't they can't dig up the same part of the street for some long period of time. I believe this bylaw was put in place because NY city residents were complaining bitterly about the near constant road works and such due to cable/telecoms companies.
There has been a lot of discussion about that recently within the ISP community ("Unbundling the Holes"). The PDF specifically mentions it at one point saying that it should be considered for the future, but there is little industry experience with the technique. Personally I Think that this scheme would work best if done by a Local Council first. (Someone want to tell the HCC about it?)
participants (5)
-
Gavin Denby -
John R. McPherson -
Lindsay Druett -
Oliver Jones -
Perry Lorier