Suggestion for meeting topic next year
Hello folks, At last months meeting there was a call for suggestions for meeting topics for next year. I would like to propose the following..... As I am in the process of upgrading my stable of computers to Slackware 11.0, I remain puzzled why the BS about Slackware being hard to use has any traction at all. While I expect _any_ discussion of Slackware will probably be branded as a distro war, I think that I could deliver a constructive, informative talk on the _underlying essence_ of text-based installation, package management, and configuration. I would invite the audience to engage in _constructive_ discussion of whether the extra demands made by GUIs on computer resources justifies any ease of installation, package management, and configuration (if any). I would like to have a newbie actually install and configure a computer as part of the presentation. I realise that time will be tight, but I should be able to keep it around the one-hour mark. I suggest the following parameters- ** The installer does not have to be experienced with Linux, but it would be helpful if they were savvy with the computing basics on any operating system. I can give them a printed copy of Slackware Basics and the Slackware Manual. If they get stuck and cannot find the information that they require within one minute, then I could tell them what to do (to keep the presentation moving along). ** The computer to be used should be representative of current modest-specced machines available- no Winmodems, odd-ball, or defective components. ** The installation should be a typical one for a typical home user - no esoteric networking or overly specialised hardware. I would have the installers machine hooked up to the projector, so to show how she/he is progressing. Given these parameters, the newbie should be able to complete the installation/configuration in well under an hour on a reasonably fast machine. I could offer up a few Slackware CDs if any member of the audience also wants to do an install during the presentation. I would welcome the participation of other Slackers as co-presenters. I would also like to attend equivalent presentations by other folk who prefer a substantially different distro (I am particularly curious about Gentoo and LFS). Again, I stress that I am not attempting to start a distro-war. I would be attempting to discuss the underlying philosophy behind the oldest surviving Linux distro and to question whether the purported user-friendliness of GUI-based administrative suites can be justified. regards, ********************************************* Dr Denise J. Bates, PO Box 50, Meremere New Zealand E-mail: dbates(a)iconz.co.nz Telephone 09-2336433 Mobile 021-2541330 *********************************************
I would like to have a newbie actually install and configure a computer as part of the presentation.
I think that's a great idea.
I would also like to attend equivalent presentations by other folk who prefer a substantially different distro (I am particularly curious about Gentoo and LFS).
Gentoo is pretty boring, for all that it's made out to be special. Oh, you can do it the "hard way" if you like (which just involves waiting for days for everything to compile), but there are pre-built .tar.gzs for bootstrapping your new install, and that's the sensible way to install it. And once it's installed, it's no different to any other modern distribution with a decent package management system. Even if you opt for the very-cut-down-and-masochistic installation, all you do is issue a few commands (such as "emerge gnome-desktop", which will build the entire dependancy tree for gnome as well ) and wait for 500MB of source to download and compile. Yawn. Even LFS seems to be getting trivially easy to install.
Again, I stress that I am not attempting to start a distro-war. I would be attempting to discuss the underlying philosophy behind the oldest surviving Linux distro and to question whether the purported user-friendliness of GUI-based administrative suites can be justified.
I've long maintained that this isn't the case. However, I'm not the average user, and I dare say neither are you. I also maintain that MS Outlook is a horrible horrible email client and that people should avoid using it at all costs, but here's the kicker: as soon as you take it away from people, they start to yell. Even if you've given them something that is superior in every way, people are incredibly reluctant to step out of their comfort zone. One reason the LUG has officially recommended Ubuntu (and in the past, Fedora Core) was to limit the myriad of choice a new LUG member has as to which distribution to use /to a distribution that majority of people who were able to offer assistance were familiar with/. So when you see Ubuntu being officially recommended at Installfests and so on, it's not necessarily because it's the best distribution (although some of us think it is), it's because it's the one that is able to be supported best. When you're trying to install linux on people's random hardware (with winmodems and both esoteric and faulty components) in as short a time as possible, it pays to have as many people round that have really good indepth knowledge of the distribution as possible. Of course, this is a somewhat vicious cycle, as it will mean there are more people who know Ubuntu better, but that really can't be helped. Anyway, I think your suggestion was a good one, although I probably won't be able to make it as I live in Auckland now. I have been meaning to revisit Slackware as last version I used was 3.1, and I know that it's unfair to base my opinion of it on those experiences. We may as well judge Ubuntu on the first Debian release if we're going to do that. It's also good to see a general LUG member offer to organise a meeting, that's a rare occasion :)
Daniel Lawson wrote:
I've long maintained that this isn't the case. However, I'm not the average user, and I dare say neither are you.
Agreed! I am sure that I am not an average user, whatever that may be. Neither can I put back the clock back and experience, first hand, the feeling of installing a Linux distribution for the first time (although I have observed quite a few of my friends doing so fairly recently). When reaching policy decisions on what we think a newbie wants/needs in a distribution, experienced users are at a disadvantage because we cannot put ourselves into a beginners mindset. A real-life demonstration of at least one newbie going through the process may be a useful reminder of what it was like when we started out.
One reason the LUG has officially recommended Ubuntu (and in the past, Fedora Core) was to limit the myriad of choice a new LUG member has as to which distribution to use /to a distribution that majority of people who were able to offer assistance were familiar with/.
I acknowledge that is that there is a commendable amount of assistance offered for Ubuntu, particularly on this list, but it is often addressing problems which I have never experienced as a Slacker. I hardly qualify as a geek (my background is in Womens Studies) but I rarely have a problem which I need to raise on this list, so it may appear that... 1.The exposure of Slackware is diminished because of the absence of problems to discuss (invisibility because of stability). 2. The Ubuntu community seems to be so supportive because bleeding-edge distros need more support than stable ones. regards, ********************************************* Dr Denise J. Bates, PO Box 50, Meremere New Zealand E-mail: dbates(a)iconz.co.nz Telephone 09-2336433 Mobile 021-2541330 *********************************************
On 10/15/06, Denise Bates <dbates(a)iconz.co.nz> wrote:
Hello folks,
At last months meeting there was a call for suggestions for meeting topics for next year. I would like to propose the following.....
As I am in the process of upgrading my stable of computers to Slackware 11.0, I remain puzzled why the BS about Slackware being hard to use has any traction at all. While I expect _any_ discussion of Slackware will probably be branded as a distro war, I think that I could deliver a constructive, informative talk on the _underlying essence_ of text-based installation, package management, and configuration. I would invite the audience to engage in _constructive_ discussion of whether the extra demands made by GUIs on computer resources justifies any ease of installation, package management, and configuration (if any).
I would like to have a newbie actually install and configure a computer as part of the presentation. I realise that time will be tight, but I should be able to keep it around the one-hour mark. I suggest the following parameters-
I think that this is a great idea. We will discuss at tonight's comittee meeting but I'm pretty sure we can go ahead with this. I'll be back in touch. Ian (WLUG President) -- Ian McDonald Web: http://wand.net.nz/~iam4 Blog: http://imcdnzl.blogspot.com WAND Network Research Group Department of Computer Science University of Waikato New Zealand
participants (3)
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Daniel Lawson -
Denise Bates -
Ian McDonald