Introducing 'Iceweasel' and 'Icedove'
From this weeks Debian Weekly News:
"Firefox becomes Iceweasel. Due to trademark [47]issues the Debian project felt impelled to rename the Firefox web browser to Iceweasel and the Thunderbird mail client to Icedove. Roberto Sanchez [48]explained that the new packages don't contain non-free artwork from the [49]Mozilla Foundation and that security updates will be properly backported. The trademark [50]policy requires that such packages are not distributed under the original name, hence the new names. 47. http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2004/12/msg00328.html 48. http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/10/msg00665.html 49. http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/ 50. http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/policy.html " Personally, I see this as the death of debian as a desktop distribution. Ubuntu 6.10 (which includes the non-free logo for the first time) suggests Ubuntu won't be following Debian footsteps in the renaming, thankfully. -- simon
Personally, I see this as the death of debian as a desktop distribution. Ubuntu 6.10 (which includes the non-free logo for the first time) suggests Ubuntu won't be following Debian footsteps in the renaming, thankfully.
-- simon
It may not be as simple as you say for Ubuntu to keep calling it Firefox or for any distro for that manner. There are two main issues: - license on artwork - patches to firefox The license on artwork won't be an issue for Ubuntu probably as they tolerate more licenses. The patches to firefox is an issue though. Mozilla have said you cannot alter firefox with your own patches and call it firefox. This one is a biggy. For example Debian (or another distro) can't backport security fixes to firefox versions that Mozilla no longer support. Debian has not been a general purpose desktop (where I mean you install for your friend, parents etc) for most people for a while now. Ubuntu is that. People use debian for a variety fo reasons and will continue to do so I think. Ian -- Ian McDonald Web: http://wand.net.nz/~iam4 Blog: http://imcdnzl.blogspot.com WAND Network Research Group Department of Computer Science University of Waikato New Zealand
On 11/1/06, Simon Green <simon(a)simongreen.net> wrote:
From this weeks Debian Weekly News:
"Firefox becomes Iceweasel. Due to trademark [47]issues the Debian project felt impelled to rename the Firefox web browser to Iceweasel and the Thunderbird mail client to Icedove. Roberto Sanchez [48]explained that the new packages don't contain non-free artwork from the [49]Mozilla Foundation and that security updates will be properly backported. The trademark [50]policy requires that such packages are not distributed under the original name, hence the new names.
47. http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2004/12/msg00328.html 48. http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/10/msg00665.html 49. http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/ 50. http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/policy.html "
Personally, I see this as the death of debian as a desktop distribution. Ubuntu 6.10 (which includes the non-free logo for the first time) suggests Ubuntu won't be following Debian footsteps in the renaming, thankfully.
I don't understand. I thought Firefox and Thunderbird were free software? J -- James Pluck PalmOS Ergo Sum
I don't understand. I thought Firefox and Thunderbird were free software?
J
Firefox and Thunderbird are free software but the name is a trademark with conditions of use attached. Very similar to RedHat - witness CentOs and now Oracle versions of it. -- Ian McDonald Web: http://wand.net.nz/~iam4 Blog: http://imcdnzl.blogspot.com WAND Network Research Group Department of Computer Science University of Waikato New Zealand
Personally, I see this as the death of debian as a desktop distribution. Ubuntu 6.10 (which includes the non-free logo for the first time) suggests Ubuntu won't be following Debian footsteps in the renaming, thankfully.
Like the death of BSD? q; I think Ubuntu should do the right thing and include Epiphany as their default browser, in the same way they include Evolution as their default mail client. It makes no sense to use Firefox or Iceweasel in a Gnome desktop.
On 11/1/06, Dominic Tennant <bnonn(a)orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Personally, I see this as the death of debian as a desktop distribution. Ubuntu 6.10 (which includes the non-free logo for the first time) suggests Ubuntu won't be following Debian footsteps in the renaming, thankfully.
Like the death of BSD? q;
I think Ubuntu should do the right thing and include Epiphany as their default browser, in the same way they include Evolution as their default mail client. It makes no sense to use Firefox or Iceweasel in a Gnome desktop.
This is where you confuse Ubuntu and Debian. Debian trys to do the "right thing" as I think you mean. Ubuntu tries to be user friendly. Debian makes Epiphany the default. Would you want OpenOffice removed by the same token and AbiWord/Gnumeric the default in Ubuntu? Ian -- Ian McDonald Web: http://wand.net.nz/~iam4 Blog: http://imcdnzl.blogspot.com WAND Network Research Group Department of Computer Science University of Waikato New Zealand
This is where you confuse Ubuntu and Debian. Debian trys to do the "right thing" as I think you mean. Ubuntu tries to be user friendly.
Debian makes Epiphany the default.
Would you want OpenOffice removed by the same token and AbiWord/Gnumeric the default in Ubuntu?
I'm not confused; I just think that since Ubuntu is a (maybe THE) flagship GNOME distro, they should be consistent and use Epiphany. What reason do they have to use Firefox instead? It has a nasty XUL interface which is inconsistent with the rest of the desktop, and it doesn't integrate properly with GNOME. And yes, I think that Abiword and Gnumeric should be used by default too. Maybe that way they'd get some attention and become decent applications!
I'm not confused; I just think that since Ubuntu is a (maybe THE) flagship GNOME distro, they should be consistent and use Epiphany. What reason do they have to use Firefox instead? It has a nasty XUL interface which is inconsistent with the rest of the desktop, and it doesn't integrate properly with GNOME. And yes, I think that Abiword and Gnumeric should be used by default too. Maybe that way they'd get some attention and become decent applications!
GNOME do not pay, or ask, Ubuntu to use GNOME. The relationship is the other way around. What reason to use Firefox? The extensions are the first and most obvious reason. And GNOME Office is missing a presentation program, among other things. I'd love for them to get more attention but with that glaring hole people will probably use and work on OpenOffice.org. Craig
GNOME do not pay, or ask, Ubuntu to use GNOME. The relationship is the other way around. What reason to use Firefox? The extensions are the first and most obvious reason.
Epiphany's extensions have come a long way; have you checked them out? I'm not saying Epy is for everyone, but it makes much more sense to include it by default and have Firefox in the Main repo.
And GNOME Office is missing a presentation program, among other things. I'd love for them to get more attention but with that glaring hole people will probably use and work on OpenOffice.org. I agree on this point. OpenOffice is still much superior; GNOME's office suite really needs some work. And it would be silly to not include OO.o by default at this stage, since it's a much more hefty download than Firefox, and many (possibly most) people will want it.
From: Dominic Tennant [mailto:bnonn(a)orcon.net.nz] To: Waikato Linux Users Group
Epiphany's extensions have come a long way; have you checked them out? I'm not saying Epy is for everyone, but it makes
That's our point though, and you just made it... Ubuntus whole idea is to BE a distro for everyone. So if you don't like the defaults, things like epiphany are easily obtainable.
much more sense to include it by default and have Firefox in the Main repo.
Cheers... david
That's our point though, and you just made it... Ubuntus whole idea is to BE a distro for everyone. So if you don't like the defaults, things like epiphany are easily obtainable.
This would necessarily entail that Firefox /is/ a browser for everyone, which I deny. I prefer Epy, and I think that Epy is a better all-round browser than Firefox.
Dominic Tennant wrote:
That's our point though, and you just made it... Ubuntus whole idea is to BE a distro for everyone. So if you don't like the defaults, things like epiphany are easily obtainable.
This would necessarily entail that Firefox /is/ a browser for everyone, which I deny. I prefer Epy, and I think that Epy is a better all-round browser than Firefox.
Better 'all-round'. For GNOME. Which isn't very all-round when you compare it to Firefox being 'all-round' for Windows, Mac OS and Linux.
Firefox integrates as well as it integrates into the Windows desktop. That is "good enough (tm)". Last time I used Epiphany I didn't like it much and it certainly didn't provide enough of an incentive to switch. Regards
I'm not confused; I just think that since Ubuntu is a (maybe THE) flagship GNOME distro, they should be consistent and use Epiphany. What reason do they have to use Firefox instead? It has a nasty XUL interface which is inconsistent with the rest of the desktop, and it doesn't integrate properly with GNOME. And yes, I think that Abiword and Gnumeric should be used by default too. Maybe that way they'd get some attention and become decent applications!
I think Ubuntu should do the right thing and include Epiphany as their default browser, in the same way they include Evolution as their default mail client. It makes no sense to use Firefox or Iceweasel in a Gnome desktop.
Firefox has mindshare. People have heard of it. While we shouldn't just discount it cos it has a funny name, "what is Epiphany, and why would I click on it to use the web?" Branding is very important. Open source should use every advantage it has. Craig
Firefox has mindshare. People have heard of it. While we shouldn't just discount it cos it has a funny name, "what is Epiphany, and why would I click on it to use the web?"
Branding is very important. Open source should use every advantage it has.
I disagree, especially since Firefox is called "Web Browser" in Ubuntu q; It's a different OS. If people are using it, they've already taken the biggest step. If Firefox is still available, they can install it if they wish :)
participants (7)
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Craig Box -
David Nicholls -
Dominic Tennant -
Ian McDonald -
James Pluck -
Oliver Jones -
Simon Green