I cant install XP on a hard drive that had Linux (Centos 3) previously installed. Any suggestions would be appreciated
Gun Caundle wrote:
I cant install XP on a hard drive that had Linux (Centos 3) previously installed. Any suggestions would be appreciated
Boot knoppix and "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=2048 count=1" as root, which will nuke the MBR and partition table off the drive (/dev/sda if it's a SCSI drive) Microsoft's tools sometimes get confused by mbr's and/or partition schemes they can't recognise.
Gun Caundle wrote:
I cant install XP on a hard drive that had Linux (Centos 3) previously installed. Any suggestions would be appreciated
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Use a LiveCD or floppy img OS to repartition your hdd. [ I use tomsrtbt ]. Make sure that the first Primary system is labeled as the filesystem you require for WinXP. I use fdisk only as each OS will format as you direct or allow. Don't forget to 'write' the partition table before you exit. Now when you try to install WinXP it will prompt you for hdd formatting ~ be sure to select only the first partition if WinXP sees others, and we'll get back to you once you are done. We know you'll be away longer than normal . -- Newbie Seeking USER_FUNCTIONALITY always! Regards SnapafunFrank Big or small, a challenge requires the same commitment to resolve. Registered Linux User # 324213
Note for snapafunfrank. . . . . Sorry for not getting back to you earlier. I didn't proceed with the Mandrake Live idea. I've gone with Ubuntu and installed. Simple task and have had some experiences with configuring since, but not difficult things - just newbie hiccups. All running smooth as silk after 10 days. Linz
Lindsay wrote:
Note for snapafunfrank. . . . .
Sorry for not getting back to you earlier. I didn't proceed with the Mandrake Live idea. I've gone with Ubuntu and installed. Simple task and have had some experiences with configuring since, but not difficult things - just newbie hiccups. All running smooth as silk after 10 days. Linz
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This Ubuntu thing sounds like something I would need to look at closer but my son, who is known to some of you, got to busy to pick one up for me. Have to look at downloading it now that I have ADSL. Briefly, with security in mind and certainly USER_FUNCTIONALITY, how does Ubuntu compare with Mandrake and KDE ? -- Newbie Seeking USER_FUNCTIONALITY always! Regards SnapafunFrank Big or small, a challenge requires the same commitment to resolve. Registered Linux User # 324213
On Mon, 2005-02-14 at 22:00 +1300, SnapafunFrank wrote:
This Ubuntu thing sounds like something I would need to look at closer but my son, who is known to some of you, got to busy to pick one up for me. Have to look at downloading it now that I have ADSL.
Briefly, with security in mind and certainly USER_FUNCTIONALITY, how does Ubuntu compare with Mandrake and KDE ?
Ubuntu is very focussed around GNOME (although KDE is available if you really want it). GNOME currently has a very friendly attitude towards USER_FUNCTIONALITY as you put it. In my personal opinion, and this is ONLY an opinion, Ubuntu / Gnome is infinitely more usable than Mandrake or other KDE based desktops. Part of this comes from the fact that Ubuntu is based on Debian, and part comes from my preference for GNOME. Regards -- Matt Brown matt(a)mattb.net.nz Mob +64 275 611 544 www.mattb.net.nz
I agree with Matt's assessment. I use Ubuntu on both of my machines at home, and find it extremely user-friendly, but not dumbed down. It's just simple, and it works. If anyone wants an Ubuntu Warty CD pack (LiveCD + Install), I still have a few, so let me know. I can also burn you a copy of the Hoary LiveCD if you provide a blank CDR :) Matt Brown wrote:
On Mon, 2005-02-14 at 22:00 +1300, SnapafunFrank wrote:
This Ubuntu thing sounds like something I would need to look at closer but my son, who is known to some of you, got to busy to pick one up for me. Have to look at downloading it now that I have ADSL.
Briefly, with security in mind and certainly USER_FUNCTIONALITY, how does Ubuntu compare with Mandrake and KDE ?
Ubuntu is very focussed around GNOME (although KDE is available if you really want it).
GNOME currently has a very friendly attitude towards USER_FUNCTIONALITY as you put it.
In my personal opinion, and this is ONLY an opinion, Ubuntu / Gnome is infinitely more usable than Mandrake or other KDE based desktops. Part of this comes from the fact that Ubuntu is based on Debian, and part comes from my preference for GNOME.
Regards
No idea why this got sent twice. Apologies all. Bnonn wrote:
I agree with Matt's assessment. I use Ubuntu on both of my machines at home, and find it extremely user-friendly, but not dumbed down. It's just simple, and it works.
If anyone wants an Ubuntu Warty CD pack (LiveCD + Install), I still have a few, so let me know. I can also burn you a copy of the Hoary LiveCD if you provide a blank CDR :)
Matt Brown wrote:
On Mon, 2005-02-14 at 22:00 +1300, SnapafunFrank wrote:
This Ubuntu thing sounds like something I would need to look at closer but my son, who is known to some of you, got to busy to pick one up for me. Have to look at downloading it now that I have ADSL.
Briefly, with security in mind and certainly USER_FUNCTIONALITY, how does Ubuntu compare with Mandrake and KDE ?
Ubuntu is very focussed around GNOME (although KDE is available if you really want it). GNOME currently has a very friendly attitude towards USER_FUNCTIONALITY as you put it. In my personal opinion, and this is ONLY an opinion, Ubuntu / Gnome is infinitely more usable than Mandrake or other KDE based desktops. Part of this comes from the fact that Ubuntu is based on Debian, and part comes from my preference for GNOME. Regards
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I agree with Matt's assessment. I use Ubuntu on both of my machines at home, and find it extremely user-friendly, but not dumbed down. It's just simple, and it works. If anyone wants an Ubuntu Warty CD pack (LiveCD + Install), I still have a few, so let me know. I can also burn you a copy of the Hoary LiveCD if you provide a blank CDR :) Matt Brown wrote:
On Mon, 2005-02-14 at 22:00 +1300, SnapafunFrank wrote:
This Ubuntu thing sounds like something I would need to look at closer but my son, who is known to some of you, got to busy to pick one up for me. Have to look at downloading it now that I have ADSL.
Briefly, with security in mind and certainly USER_FUNCTIONALITY, how does Ubuntu compare with Mandrake and KDE ?
Ubuntu is very focussed around GNOME (although KDE is available if you really want it).
GNOME currently has a very friendly attitude towards USER_FUNCTIONALITY as you put it.
In my personal opinion, and this is ONLY an opinion, Ubuntu / Gnome is infinitely more usable than Mandrake or other KDE based desktops. Part of this comes from the fact that Ubuntu is based on Debian, and part comes from my preference for GNOME.
Regards
Matt Brown wrote:
On Mon, 2005-02-14 at 22:00 +1300, SnapafunFrank wrote:
This Ubuntu thing sounds like something I would need to look at closer but my son, who is known to some of you, got to busy to pick one up for me. Have to look at downloading it now that I have ADSL.
Briefly, with security in mind and certainly USER_FUNCTIONALITY, how does Ubuntu compare with Mandrake and KDE ?
Ubuntu is very focussed around GNOME (although KDE is available if you really want it).
GNOME currently has a very friendly attitude towards USER_FUNCTIONALITY as you put it.
In my personal opinion, and this is ONLY an opinion, Ubuntu / Gnome is infinitely more usable than Mandrake or other KDE based desktops. Part of this comes from the fact that Ubuntu is based on Debian, and part comes from my preference for GNOME.
Regards
Thanks for your feed back and I will continue to go about getting a copy to try. Just one thing though, Mandrake and KDE are not the same thing, they are as different as your Ubuntu and Gnome, nether needs the other as one is an OS and the other is a desktop environment ( of your choice ). In your case you could install kde and gnome and whilst within gnome use kde apps not available with gnome yet..... "Desktop Environment", where as I,though not to sure if any other distros cater to hotplug and udev in a stable version, use Mandrake - Linux Kernel-2.6.3-7.& 2.6.10 - because of all the USB devices out there now, ( camera, flash drive, bluetooth dongles... you get the picture.) AND, I believe that originally, Mandrake did default with the Gnome Desktop???? ( Not sure anymore - I just install both for options.) So as to not get to far OT - have you tried xfce4 yet? Now there is a fast and friendly Desktop. -- Newbie Seeking USER_FUNCTIONALITY always! Regards SnapafunFrank Big or small, a challenge requires the same commitment to resolve. Registered Linux User # 324213
XFCE is nice, but it lacks a number of handy Gnome features from what I've been able to tell. It's so stripped down that it feels like a toy gui, lacking in a number of solid tools. It doesn't have, for example, any method of even changing screen resolution or refresh rate--traditionally a rather weak point with Linux guis, but one which is important in my opinion since 1280x1024 at 60 Hz is horrible, and I don't want to have to mess about in XFree86.conf just to change something like that. It obviously depends on what you want to get out of it; I've installed XFCE on Ubuntu and have found it quite nice when you have a 1280x1024 LCD and just want to play around. However, it obviously requires a lot of customization to get it set up in a way which is as useful as Gnome is in Ubuntu, since Gnome ships with Ubunutu and is set up to play nicely with it and has all the most handy things at your fingertips. I haven't ever got XFCE customized at all, or used it for a long period of time, so take what I say with a pinch of salt. It's certainly quick, but I don't know how much difference you'd notice on a modern system? Oh, and as I said before, if you want a copy of Ubunutu, just let me know :) Regards Bnonn SnapafunFrank wrote:
Matt Brown wrote:
On Mon, 2005-02-14 at 22:00 +1300, SnapafunFrank wrote:
This Ubuntu thing sounds like something I would need to look at closer but my son, who is known to some of you, got to busy to pick one up for me. Have to look at downloading it now that I have ADSL.
Briefly, with security in mind and certainly USER_FUNCTIONALITY, how does Ubuntu compare with Mandrake and KDE ?
Ubuntu is very focussed around GNOME (although KDE is available if you really want it). GNOME currently has a very friendly attitude towards USER_FUNCTIONALITY as you put it. In my personal opinion, and this is ONLY an opinion, Ubuntu / Gnome is infinitely more usable than Mandrake or other KDE based desktops. Part of this comes from the fact that Ubuntu is based on Debian, and part comes from my preference for GNOME. Regards
Thanks for your feed back and I will continue to go about getting a copy to try.
Just one thing though, Mandrake and KDE are not the same thing, they are as different as your Ubuntu and Gnome, nether needs the other as one is an OS and the other is a desktop environment ( of your choice ). In your case you could install kde and gnome and whilst within gnome use kde apps not available with gnome yet..... "Desktop Environment", where as I,though not to sure if any other distros cater to hotplug and udev in a stable version, use Mandrake - Linux Kernel-2.6.3-7.& 2.6.10 - because of all the USB devices out there now, ( camera, flash drive, bluetooth dongles... you get the picture.)
AND, I believe that originally, Mandrake did default with the Gnome Desktop???? ( Not sure anymore - I just install both for options.)
So as to not get to far OT - have you tried xfce4 yet? Now there is a fast and friendly Desktop.
XFCE is nice, but it lacks a number of handy Gnome features from what I've been able to tell. It's so stripped down that it feels like a toy gui, lacking in a number of solid tools. It doesn't have, for example, any method of even changing screen resolution or refresh rate--traditionally a rather weak point with Linux guis, but one which is important in my opinion since 1280x1024 at 60 Hz is horrible, and I don't want to have to mess about in XFree86.conf just to change something like that.
"traditionally weak" is an understatement. Until recently, there was no way at all of doing this within the GUI. Have you tried running 'gnome-display-properties' under xfce? This is the gnome applet which makes use of the xrandr extension to set your screen resolution. The fact that you're not running 'Gnome' (and metacity) shouldn't matter.
An aside, how often do people really change gui resolutions ?? even in mac/windows ?? I tried to think when i last did it and it was when I changed the monitor here about a year ago, and I use a linux desktop daily. On my windows laptop I did it to allow a VCR hookup to a laptop to record a powerpoint screen, but in normal life ????? If this were in an installer I could understand, but do we really need these sorts of tools on the desktop ?? OK i'll go back to hacking sax2 now to try and get it working with x-org on slackware 10.1 (which explains why I am asking this sort of question) unless redhat have hacked xconfigurator to work with X-org. ( I see fedora has switched over) Has yoper fixed sax2 with x-org yet ?, I see x-org in now in their dev tree. Gavin. On Wednesday, February 16, 2005, at 11:02 AM, Daniel Lawson wrote:
for example, any method of even changing screen resolution or refresh rate--traditionally a rather weak point with Linux guis, but one which is important in my opinion since 1280x1024 at 60 Hz is horrible, and I don't want to have to mess about in XFree86.conf just to change something like that.
"traditionally weak" is an understatement. Until recently, there was no way at all of doing this within the GUI.
Admittedly not that often, but still many more times than just on fresh install. For example: plugging your computer into the TV/projector to watch a movie. At any rate, it should definitely be there even if you only ever use it once, just on principle of 'clicking a button is nicer than editing an obscure config file'. The obscure config file should of course always be there - oh how many times have I wished for windows to boot in a command line mode - but for simple stuff like changing display properties a GUI is always nicer than a config file. Not everyone can type at 60wpm you know. Quoting Gavin Denby <redhat(a)ihug.co.nz>:
An aside, how often do people really change gui resolutions ?? even in mac/windows ?? I tried to think when i last did it and it was when I changed the monitor here about a year ago, and I use a linux desktop daily. On my windows laptop I did it to allow a VCR hookup to a laptop to record a powerpoint screen, but in normal life ?????
If this were in an installer I could understand, but do we really need these sorts of tools on the desktop ??
OK i'll go back to hacking sax2 now to try and get it working with x-org on slackware 10.1 (which explains why I am asking this sort of question) unless redhat have hacked xconfigurator to work with X-org. ( I see fedora has switched over)
Has yoper fixed sax2 with x-org yet ?, I see x-org in now in their dev tree.
Gavin.
On Wednesday, February 16, 2005, at 11:02 AM, Daniel Lawson wrote:
for example, any method of even changing screen resolution or refresh rate--traditionally a rather weak point with Linux guis, but one which is important in my opinion since 1280x1024 at 60 Hz is horrible, and I don't want to have to mess about in XFree86.conf just to change something like that.
"traditionally weak" is an understatement. Until recently, there was no way at all of doing this within the GUI.
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On Wed, 2005-02-16 at 11:26 +1300, Gavin Denby wrote:
An aside, how often do people really change gui resolutions ?? even in mac/windows ?? I tried to think when i last did it and it was when I changed the monitor here about a year ago, and I use a linux desktop daily. On my windows laptop I did it to allow a VCR hookup to a laptop to record a powerpoint screen, but in normal life ?????
I would imagine that it is a fairly rare occurrence. But XRandR is more about programmatic control of resolution changes and apps being able to detect the change in res and adjusting their dimensions. XFree86 has for a long time been able to change your screens resolution. Ctrl-Alt- Num+/Num- etc. It could change into whatever you had specified as a valid "mode" in your config. It defaulted to the first in the mode list on start up if you didn't specify a default elsewhere. However when you change the resolution with this method the 'desktop' size stays the same. When your mouse gets to the edge of the screen the 'virtual' desktop starts moving. Games (like the Loki ports) used this method and just grabbed the mouse and stopped if from going outside the bounds of the game window. A hack, but it worked. With XRandR you can actually change the X visual's dimensions. This is very different from the old method where the X visual stayed the same size. With XRandR you can also rotate the image (the 2nd R). This is good for tablet and palm devices (and vertical scrolling games in MAME). Much nicer to write on an A4 shaped screen but nicer to view other stuff in wide screen (movies, spreadsheets).
If this were in an installer I could understand, but do we really need these sorts of tools on the desktop ??
Yes. Ideally it should be a desktop setting (I think it might be in Gnome) so when you login your desktop gets automatically resized to your preference. I know quite a few office user types who don't like highres displays. Particularly older individuals with bung eyes. Hel,l even I scale up the fonts on a lot of webpages (ctrl+scroll wheel). My eyesight isn't that fantastic these days. Regards, Blind old orj... -- Oliver Jones » Roving Code Warrior oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 » www.deeperdesign.com
Good point; in theory, a lot of the Gnome applets should work, should they not? Still, since they're not components of XFCE, and XFCE doesn't make use of them (as it rightly shouldn't, since that would assume Gnome was installed), the problem does remain in that XFCE is very lightweight in more than one way. The main issue with XFCE, in my opinion, is that it is meant to look more or less like Gnome, but has far less functionality--so unlike with WMs like Flux, you feel a bit cheated. Yes, the functionality of Gnome comes at the price of a little speed, but let's be fair: the functionality, now, is *good*; Gnome is a very solid gui in my opinion. And the speed tradeoff is not significant--Gnome runs fine on my P3 500 with 256 MB RAM. Not as snappily as it could, but not slowly enough that I ever find myself getting annoyed (although I do use the console a lot as well to be fair). With window managers like Flux or even Enlightenment and its kin, they're used very differently, so you can't really compare them with Gnome/KDE. Unfortunately for XFCE, it seems to target the same users as those of Gnome/KDE, relying basically on its speed to make up for lack of features--and in my opinion, it doesn't really stack up. Just my opinion though :) Daniel Lawson wrote:
XFCE is nice, but it lacks a number of handy Gnome features from what I've been able to tell. It's so stripped down that it feels like a toy gui, lacking in a number of solid tools. It doesn't have, for example, any method of even changing screen resolution or refresh rate--traditionally a rather weak point with Linux guis, but one which is important in my opinion since 1280x1024 at 60 Hz is horrible, and I don't want to have to mess about in XFree86.conf just to change something like that.
"traditionally weak" is an understatement. Until recently, there was no way at all of doing this within the GUI. Have you tried running 'gnome-display-properties' under xfce? This is the gnome applet which makes use of the xrandr extension to set your screen resolution. The fact that you're not running 'Gnome' (and metacity) shouldn't matter.
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Bnonn wrote:
Good point; in theory, a lot of the Gnome applets should work, should they not? Still, since they're not components of XFCE, and XFCE doesn't make use of them (as it rightly shouldn't, since that would assume Gnome was installed), the problem does remain in that XFCE is very lightweight in more than one way.
http://www.loculus.nl/xfce/documentation/docs-4.2/xfce-mcs-plugins.html Install xfce-mcs-plugins. It has the applet you want.
The main issue with XFCE, in my opinion, is that it is meant to look more or less like Gnome, but has far less functionality--so unlike with
If you mean "uses GTK2, has windows, icons, buttons , has a panel/dock interface and uses the mouse to get around" then yes, it looks like gnome. I suspect it's only the fact that it's GTK2 that makes it look like GNOME. There's nothing in their design philosophy which states they are making a gnome-alike environment.
Speaking of Gnome's speed. Version 2.8 is the first version of Gnome where I've actually started to use Nautilus. Up until this point it was just too god damn slow. While it isn't fantastically fast it is however fast enough to be quite usable. And I actually kinda like the "spatial" mode that everyone bitched about when it first came out. I like the fact that it remembers what size and where you put windows. I would however quite like it to resolve symlinks to absolute paths for remembering folder/file emblems etc. It also seems to forget thumbnails too quickly. (Me glares at GStreamer which seems to have stopped creating AVI thumbs for no apparent reason). I would also quite like it to have some sort of configurable trail of windows. I'm not too happy about all the windows that appear when you borrow deep into a directory tree. Shift Double Click closes windows behind you but there needs to be some sort of middle ground.
The main issue with XFCE, in my opinion, is that it is meant to look more or less like Gnome, but has far less functionality--so unlike with WMs like Flux, you feel a bit cheated. Yes, the functionality of Gnome comes at the price of a little speed, but let's be fair: the functionality, now, is *good*; Gnome is a very solid gui in my opinion. And the speed tradeoff is not significant--Gnome runs fine on my P3 500 with 256 MB RAM. Not as snappily as it could, but not slowly enough that I ever find myself getting annoyed (although I do use the console a lot as well to be fair). With window managers like Flux or even Enlightenment and its kin, they're used very differently, so you can't really compare them with Gnome/KDE. Unfortunately for XFCE, it seems to target the same users as those of Gnome/KDE, relying basically on its speed to make up for lack of features--and in my opinion, it doesn't really stack up.
-- Oliver Jones » Roving Code Warrior oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 » www.deeperdesign.com
I've just setup XFCE4 on my uni desktop, and I have to say I'm sold on it.
rate--traditionally a rather weak point with Linux guis, but one which is important in my opinion since 1280x1024 at 60 Hz is horrible, and I don't want to have to mess about in XFree86.conf just to change something like that.
I addressed this point before, and to follow up (now that I have an XFCE install in front of me), you just need to go to Settings | Display from either the panel or the right-click context menu on the desktop.
of customization to get it set up in a way which is as useful as Gnome is in Ubuntu, since Gnome ships with Ubunutu and is set up to play nicely with it and has all the most handy things at your fingertips.
This point really depends on what you want your desktop to do. I have customise any Gnome install to put shortcuts to the apps I use all the time on the menu bar, and to set up my keyboard bindings. At the moment it's fairly annoying to bind arbitary commands to a keybinding in Metacity (the window manager that GNOME uses) - you have to manually edit the gconf registry. It's much better supported in XFCE4 however. From this point of view, I'd say XFCE4 is easier to customise, for the most part.
I haven't ever got XFCE customized at all, or used it for a long period of time, so take what I say with a pinch of salt. It's certainly quick, but I don't know how much difference you'd notice on a modern system?
Things I prefer about XFCE4 (compared to GNOME 2.6/Metacity) * If you right- or middle-click on the maximise button in a window, it will vertically or horizontally maximise the window. This is something I used all the time in GNOME 1.4 / Sawfish, and it was one of the features I missed when I moved to GNOME 2.x / Metacity. * Drag-n-drop printing. GNOME 2.x might have this as well, but I've not seen it. * xffm has some nice features, although it's a bit cluttered. It seems fast as well. Things I dislike about XFCE4: * When moving workspaces to the right, it eventually wraps round to the left. I like being able to hold down F6 (the key i bind to 'move one workspace to the right) and hit the end. * It has an app menu, but you can't drag from that onto the panel. You have to manually create the launcher on the panel. When creating a launcher, it's fairly tedious to find the right icon, as it doesn't default to /usr/share/pixmaps As far as look and feel goes, it uses GTK2 so shares some similarity with GNOME 2. It is designed in a fundamentally different way however (GNOME is very start-menu oriented, XFCE isn't, for example). If you're used to GNOME, that might be a problem - it's too close to what you're used to, yet still different. It feels fast, but so does anything on a dual opteron 250.
Daniel Lawson wrote:
I've just setup XFCE4 on my uni desktop, and I have to say I'm sold on it.
rate--traditionally a rather weak point with Linux guis, but one which is important in my opinion since 1280x1024 at 60 Hz is horrible, and I don't want to have to mess about in XFree86.conf just to change something like that.
I addressed this point before, and to follow up (now that I have an XFCE install in front of me), you just need to go to Settings | Display from either the panel or the right-click context menu on the desktop.
of customization to get it set up in a way which is as useful as Gnome is in Ubuntu, since Gnome ships with Ubunutu and is set up to play nicely with it and has all the most handy things at your fingertips.
This point really depends on what you want your desktop to do. I have customise any Gnome install to put shortcuts to the apps I use all the time on the menu bar, and to set up my keyboard bindings. At the moment it's fairly annoying to bind arbitary commands to a keybinding in Metacity (the window manager that GNOME uses) - you have to manually edit the gconf registry. It's much better supported in XFCE4 however. From this point of view, I'd say XFCE4 is easier to customise, for the most part.
I haven't ever got XFCE customized at all, or used it for a long period of time, so take what I say with a pinch of salt. It's certainly quick, but I don't know how much difference you'd notice on a modern system?
Things I prefer about XFCE4 (compared to GNOME 2.6/Metacity)
* If you right- or middle-click on the maximise button in a window, it will vertically or horizontally maximise the window. This is something I used all the time in GNOME 1.4 / Sawfish, and it was one of the features I missed when I moved to GNOME 2.x / Metacity.
* Drag-n-drop printing. GNOME 2.x might have this as well, but I've not seen it.
* xffm has some nice features, although it's a bit cluttered. It seems fast as well.
Things I dislike about XFCE4: * When moving workspaces to the right, it eventually wraps round to the left. I like being able to hold down F6 (the key i bind to 'move one workspace to the right) and hit the end.
* It has an app menu, but you can't drag from that onto the panel. You have to manually create the launcher on the panel. When creating a launcher, it's fairly tedious to find the right icon, as it doesn't default to /usr/share/pixmaps
As far as look and feel goes, it uses GTK2 so shares some similarity with GNOME 2. It is designed in a fundamentally different way however (GNOME is very start-menu oriented, XFCE isn't, for example). If you're used to GNOME, that might be a problem - it's too close to what you're used to, yet still different. It feels fast, but so does anything on a dual opteron 250.
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I am actual beta testing bricscad for linux and tough disappointed that it isn't truly linux - uses wine - I am getting quite a lot of work done and at a great rate when I open it within xfce4 - no cutter to slow things down. For those interested in looking at any other window manager without login out of their current one, then let me share a tip I gleaned from one of my mags recently. Go to a level three screen: <Ctrl+Alt+F1> Log in as a user Then: $ startxfce4 -- :1 & ( this is of course for xfce4 if you have it installed - just replace that part with your preferred wm.) This should drop you into a virtual desktop ( in this case xfce4 ) which is at <Ctrl+Alt+F8> . Once you have had enough you ought to exit that wm by applying the relative 'exit' from within that wm. Otherwise, simply use the Ctrl+Alt+Fn to move between your consoles. Great way to hide things from nosy people always trying to discover what it is you are really doing - [ in my case, simply playing around for a break now and then ]. Er... don't forget to log out from <Ctrl+Alt+F1> when you're done also. Hoping someone will have some fun with this. -- Newbie Seeking USER_FUNCTIONALITY always! Regards SnapafunFrank Big or small, a challenge requires the same commitment to resolve. Registered Linux User # 324213
Nice tip :) I'm just trying out XFCE again, and I see that I am running 4.0, not 4.2. So any comparison or comments I made should be taken within that context. I'm going to try out 4.2 shortly :) SnapafunFrank wrote:
Daniel Lawson wrote:
I've just setup XFCE4 on my uni desktop, and I have to say I'm sold on it.
rate--traditionally a rather weak point with Linux guis, but one which is important in my opinion since 1280x1024 at 60 Hz is horrible, and I don't want to have to mess about in XFree86.conf just to change something like that.
I addressed this point before, and to follow up (now that I have an XFCE install in front of me), you just need to go to Settings | Display from either the panel or the right-click context menu on the desktop.
of customization to get it set up in a way which is as useful as Gnome is in Ubuntu, since Gnome ships with Ubunutu and is set up to play nicely with it and has all the most handy things at your fingertips.
This point really depends on what you want your desktop to do. I have customise any Gnome install to put shortcuts to the apps I use all the time on the menu bar, and to set up my keyboard bindings. At the moment it's fairly annoying to bind arbitary commands to a keybinding in Metacity (the window manager that GNOME uses) - you have to manually edit the gconf registry. It's much better supported in XFCE4 however. From this point of view, I'd say XFCE4 is easier to customise, for the most part.
I haven't ever got XFCE customized at all, or used it for a long period of time, so take what I say with a pinch of salt. It's certainly quick, but I don't know how much difference you'd notice on a modern system?
Things I prefer about XFCE4 (compared to GNOME 2.6/Metacity)
* If you right- or middle-click on the maximise button in a window, it will vertically or horizontally maximise the window. This is something I used all the time in GNOME 1.4 / Sawfish, and it was one of the features I missed when I moved to GNOME 2.x / Metacity.
* Drag-n-drop printing. GNOME 2.x might have this as well, but I've not seen it.
* xffm has some nice features, although it's a bit cluttered. It seems fast as well.
Things I dislike about XFCE4: * When moving workspaces to the right, it eventually wraps round to the left. I like being able to hold down F6 (the key i bind to 'move one workspace to the right) and hit the end.
* It has an app menu, but you can't drag from that onto the panel. You have to manually create the launcher on the panel. When creating a launcher, it's fairly tedious to find the right icon, as it doesn't default to /usr/share/pixmaps
As far as look and feel goes, it uses GTK2 so shares some similarity with GNOME 2. It is designed in a fundamentally different way however (GNOME is very start-menu oriented, XFCE isn't, for example). If you're used to GNOME, that might be a problem - it's too close to what you're used to, yet still different. It feels fast, but so does anything on a dual opteron 250.
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I am actual beta testing bricscad for linux and tough disappointed that it isn't truly linux - uses wine - I am getting quite a lot of work done and at a great rate when I open it within xfce4 - no cutter to slow things down.
For those interested in looking at any other window manager without login out of their current one, then let me share a tip I gleaned from one of my mags recently.
Go to a level three screen:
<Ctrl+Alt+F1> Log in as a user Then:
$ startxfce4 -- :1 & ( this is of course for xfce4 if you have it installed - just replace that part with your preferred wm.)
This should drop you into a virtual desktop ( in this case xfce4 ) which is at <Ctrl+Alt+F8> .
Once you have had enough you ought to exit that wm by applying the relative 'exit' from within that wm.
Otherwise, simply use the Ctrl+Alt+Fn to move between your consoles.
Great way to hide things from nosy people always trying to discover what it is you are really doing - [ in my case, simply playing around for a break now and then ].
Er... don't forget to log out from <Ctrl+Alt+F1> when you're done also.
Hoping someone will have some fun with this.
Fair enough. I must admit that I didn't know about some of that stuff. I'll give XFCE another go maybe :) Daniel Lawson wrote:
I've just setup XFCE4 on my uni desktop, and I have to say I'm sold on it.
rate--traditionally a rather weak point with Linux guis, but one which is important in my opinion since 1280x1024 at 60 Hz is horrible, and I don't want to have to mess about in XFree86.conf just to change something like that.
I addressed this point before, and to follow up (now that I have an XFCE install in front of me), you just need to go to Settings | Display from either the panel or the right-click context menu on the desktop.
of customization to get it set up in a way which is as useful as Gnome is in Ubuntu, since Gnome ships with Ubunutu and is set up to play nicely with it and has all the most handy things at your fingertips.
This point really depends on what you want your desktop to do. I have customise any Gnome install to put shortcuts to the apps I use all the time on the menu bar, and to set up my keyboard bindings. At the moment it's fairly annoying to bind arbitary commands to a keybinding in Metacity (the window manager that GNOME uses) - you have to manually edit the gconf registry. It's much better supported in XFCE4 however. From this point of view, I'd say XFCE4 is easier to customise, for the most part.
I haven't ever got XFCE customized at all, or used it for a long period of time, so take what I say with a pinch of salt. It's certainly quick, but I don't know how much difference you'd notice on a modern system?
Things I prefer about XFCE4 (compared to GNOME 2.6/Metacity)
* If you right- or middle-click on the maximise button in a window, it will vertically or horizontally maximise the window. This is something I used all the time in GNOME 1.4 / Sawfish, and it was one of the features I missed when I moved to GNOME 2.x / Metacity.
* Drag-n-drop printing. GNOME 2.x might have this as well, but I've not seen it.
* xffm has some nice features, although it's a bit cluttered. It seems fast as well.
Things I dislike about XFCE4: * When moving workspaces to the right, it eventually wraps round to the left. I like being able to hold down F6 (the key i bind to 'move one workspace to the right) and hit the end.
* It has an app menu, but you can't drag from that onto the panel. You have to manually create the launcher on the panel. When creating a launcher, it's fairly tedious to find the right icon, as it doesn't default to /usr/share/pixmaps
As far as look and feel goes, it uses GTK2 so shares some similarity with GNOME 2. It is designed in a fundamentally different way however (GNOME is very start-menu oriented, XFCE isn't, for example). If you're used to GNOME, that might be a problem - it's too close to what you're used to, yet still different. It feels fast, but so does anything on a dual opteron 250.
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Bnonn wrote:
XFCE is nice, but it lacks a number of handy Gnome features from what I've been able to tell. It's so stripped down that it feels like a toy gui, lacking in a number of solid tools. It doesn't have, for example, any method of even changing screen resolution or refresh rate--traditionally a rather weak point with Linux guis, but one which is important in my opinion since 1280x1024 at 60 Hz is horrible, and I don't want to have to mess about in XFree86.conf just to change something like that.
It obviously depends on what you want to get out of it; I've installed XFCE on Ubuntu and have found it quite nice when you have a 1280x1024 LCD and just want to play around. However, it obviously requires a lot of customization to get it set up in a way which is as useful as Gnome is in Ubuntu, since Gnome ships with Ubunutu and is set up to play nicely with it and has all the most handy things at your fingertips.
I haven't ever got XFCE customized at all, or used it for a long period of time, so take what I say with a pinch of salt. It's certainly quick, but I don't know how much difference you'd notice on a modern system?
Oh, and as I said before, if you want a copy of Ubunutu, just let me know :)
Regards
Bnonn
SnapafunFrank wrote:
Matt Brown wrote:
On Mon, 2005-02-14 at 22:00 +1300, SnapafunFrank wrote:
This Ubuntu thing sounds like something I would need to look at closer but my son, who is known to some of you, got to busy to pick one up for me. Have to look at downloading it now that I have ADSL.
Briefly, with security in mind and certainly USER_FUNCTIONALITY, how does Ubuntu compare with Mandrake and KDE ?
Ubuntu is very focussed around GNOME (although KDE is available if you really want it). GNOME currently has a very friendly attitude towards USER_FUNCTIONALITY as you put it. In my personal opinion, and this is ONLY an opinion, Ubuntu / Gnome is infinitely more usable than Mandrake or other KDE based desktops. Part of this comes from the fact that Ubuntu is based on Debian, and part comes from my preference for GNOME. Regards
Thanks for your feed back and I will continue to go about getting a copy to try.
Just one thing though, Mandrake and KDE are not the same thing, they are as different as your Ubuntu and Gnome, nether needs the other as one is an OS and the other is a desktop environment ( of your choice ). In your case you could install kde and gnome and whilst within gnome use kde apps not available with gnome yet..... "Desktop Environment", where as I,though not to sure if any other distros cater to hotplug and udev in a stable version, use Mandrake - Linux Kernel-2.6.3-7.& 2.6.10 - because of all the USB devices out there now, ( camera, flash drive, bluetooth dongles... you get the picture.)
AND, I believe that originally, Mandrake did default with the Gnome Desktop???? ( Not sure anymore - I just install both for options.)
So as to not get to far OT - have you tried xfce4 yet? Now there is a fast and friendly Desktop.
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Thanks for the continued offer Bnonn and I'm trying to take advantage of it. Should you run into my son, David McIsaac, who I believe is known to colleagues of yours, then please remind him to collect one for his dad. In the meanwhile I'll keep reading TFMs on security because that is where I'm at at present. Thanks for your input, it is greatly appreciated always. -- Newbie Seeking USER_FUNCTIONALITY always! Regards SnapafunFrank Big or small, a challenge requires the same commitment to resolve. Registered Linux User # 324213
Can posters please attempt to maintain at least some form of netiquette, at least with respect to excessive quoting of previous messages? It's making my eyes bleed! :) Thanks. The Fist.
Anyone know of a linux compatible TV/Video capture card? Probably prefer USB so can use on my notebook as well. Tried looking arround but DSE for instance no linux drivers! TIA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Bill Rosoman wrote:
Anyone know of a linux compatible TV/Video capture card?
Probably prefer USB so can use on my notebook as well.
Tried looking arround but DSE for instance no linux drivers!
http://www.wlug.org.nz/TvTunerCards I'm not too sure about the USB cards, but the cheap DSE PCI cards are normally BT878 or SAA7134. Both of these are well supported in Linux. Craig
On Mon, Feb 14, 2005 at 05:52:17PM +1300, Gun Caundle wrote:
I cant install XP on a hard drive that had Linux (Centos 3) previously installed. Any suggestions would be appreciated
Never use Windows when doing anything partition related if you have alternative OSes installed, it will break things for you. James.
participants (14)
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Bill Rosoman -
Bnonn -
Craig Box -
Daniel Lawson -
Gavin Denby -
Greig McGill -
Gun Caundle -
James Clark -
Lindsay -
Matt Brown -
Oliver Jones -
Orion Edwards -
SnapafunFrank -
zcat