- wlug - list.wlug.org.nz

Re: [wlug] Brain free distro - root password required
by Perry Lorier 20 Mar '01

20 Mar '01

> What _should_ happen IMO is that it gives you some nice screens saying > "Please enter what you wish the system adminstration password to be. This > password will be required for making changes to system > configuration." This then becomes the root password - for a newbie > friendly distro there should be able to be a "system adminstration > password" without the concept of a root account. "If you want to perform > manual system adminstration (not recommended for most users) log in as root > with the adminstration password you just chose." It's reasonaly easy to prevent users logging in to X as root, as this is 99% of your "misinformed users" they quickly discover thaat they either use su, or the gui tools (that conveiently prompt you for a password), or they use a text console. (If they can figure out what the text consoles are, then they're doing ok. - they won't use it for daily use). Just change 'allowroot' in the 'security' section of /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf to false. > Has anyone considered a setup where it automatically logs you into X using > this "standard PC account" - a bit more insecure yes, but good for a home PC? > I installed MS networking login on Mums PC once so I could log into file > shares on my Linux box. She demanded it be removed as it confused her on > startup. These are the people standing between Linux and "world domination"! Yeah, easy to do. With a bit of tweaking you can setup gdm to show a picture of each user (and their name), and not have it prompt for a password. (click on the picture of you, and press 'enter'.....) > >Given that you can do damage as root (explanation later) why would you > >want to ruin your $n000 PCs configuration, when, for very little hassle > >really, you can protect it from yourself! > > Cos you're lazy, and never think of it. Cos you're an ex-Windows user who > doesn't understand, and would rather just log in as root every time. Cos > it wasnt the proper default. Cos you trust your programs not to go wrong. Because windows: * Hides critical information to you so you can't stuff it up. (evidence by the htmlified /windows directory) * Asks for confirmation on everything. * Locks system critical components so you can't do anything with them ("That file is in use by the operating system and cannot be deleted at this time"). Linux: * Is transparent - you can see whats going on under the hood. * Assumes that you ment what you said * Doesn't believe in preventing you from doing what your trying to do. Ever tried to delete a file under windows which is causing problems? watched it fail? :) Ever tried deleting critical libraries under unix? watched the rest of your system fail instead? > Should I be logging into Windows as a seperate user? > Do you? In general I don't login to windows, if required to I press 'escape' :) > >root doesn't just apply to "your" permissions. Every process you start > >also has root access (and yes, this holds true under lose2k as well). If > >ANY of those processes are buggy, or have remote-exploit bugs in them, > >bye-bye data! > > If any processes are buggy you will lose data. What do you care about most > if youre a home user? Your documents. They all belong to you. > (All of your documents are belong to you!) Several programs when run as root use the system config's, not the per user ones. You change the config to your desire - now everyone's config is like that -- and they can't change it. Some programs (such as minicom) are nice enough to warn you that they are doing this. Others aren't so forgiving. Programs such as bitchx are security nightmares, running them as root or otherwise is a security hazard, but I doubt many people would give up their IRC addiction :) > If any processes have remote exploit bugs in them, even if they're user > space, you can download the password file and then run crack on it. > Knowing a standard home user their root password will be "sex" or "fred". heh, Redhat at least is smart enough to prevent people inflicting this upon themselves unless they know how to SU to root and change it themselves. The most difficult years of marriage are those following the wedding. ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] Conceptual Distribution
by Bruce Kingsbury 20 Mar '01

20 Mar '01

> I suggested earlier that we should make meetings more regular to keep pace > with developments etc. This could be another option, with a "development I would suggest first Monday of every month at BTM (presentation), third Monday at the Radio Clubrooms (hands-on). One meeting a month seems a little too infrequent to me. ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] X + Redhat7 Gui frettings
by Colin Palmer 19 Mar '01

19 Mar '01

On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Greig McGill wrote: > BUT - and there's always a but - there are no nice RPMs from RedHat for it. > I've done a source build of X before on a "roll-yer-own" distro, but never > tried to upgrade X under RH before. > What is the best/easiest way to do this without breaking anything? The _best_ way is to get hold of the .spec file from the 4.0.1 source RPM, tweak it as necessary for anything that might have changed in 4.0.3 then use that, along with tarballs of the 4.0.3 source and the rpm command to build your own RPMs, which you then upgrade to via the normal methods. The _easiest_ way is to wait for someone else (eg RedHat themselves) to make those RPMs for you. :) --Colin. ** Colin Palmer, Systems and Development Group, University of Waikato, NZ ** ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] Is Undernet reliable enough for WLUG
by Glenn Reed 15 Mar '01

15 Mar '01

On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, you wrote: > > Is undernet reliable enough for #WLUG. It has a history of hard to connect, > > "connection class full" and denial of service attacks. Is there a reason why > > people prefer undernet or would a less popular but more reliable service also > > suit? > > I must admit I'm somewhat bias'd, but although undernet may not be the > most stable thing on the planet, from what I've seen I've yet to meet irc > servers that are more stable. What about the appleslice servers forming part of the appleslice irc network. It is easy to get connected, no connection class full problems, and I haven't seen any netsplits (aka denial of service attack) happen there. See http://www.appleslice.org Glenn. > > -- > There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear. > > ------------ > WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group > To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message. ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] Is Undernet reliable enough for WLUG
by Oliver Jones 15 Mar '01

15 Mar '01

Glenn Reed wrote: > > Is undernet reliable enough for #WLUG. It has a history of hard to connect, > "connection class full" and denial of service attacks. Is there a reason why > people prefer undernet or would a less popular but more reliable service also > suit? Undernet is where people like Perry, Daniel, Ray, and I "hang" in #iltonham. Hence why undernet was suggested. :) Later -- Oliver Jones - oliver(a)deeper.co.nz - Mobile: +64-21-41-2238 - Deeper Design Limited - http://www.deeperdesign.com ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] Unsub - anyone know this miscreant?
by Perry Lorier 14 Mar '01

14 Mar '01

> > Grrrr to people who leave mail addresses subbed when sodding off. > If anyone knows jap5(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz, please beat them for me. > > I have unsubbed this address. I'll see him at lunchtime and smack him around appropriately. -- Your heart is pure, and your mind clear, and your soul devout. ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] IRC channel
by Greig McGill 14 Mar '01

14 Mar '01

> > Good call - is it registered with X? Perry? ;P > > > > Nope, why needs X? just gline anyone who wanders near... Oh you and your funny talk. +------------------------------------------+ | Greig McGill | | Systems Engineer - Compel Automation Ltd | | Ph. +64 7 838 3747 Fax. +64 7 838 3737 | | web: http://www.compel.co.nz | +------------------------------------------+ ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] World Domination and other matters.
by Jon Tocker 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

On 8 Mar 01, at 12:02, Andreas wrote: > I don't see the assambly and installation as something I could not be > bothered to do...it gets boring after a while, that is true but I'd be in > for that. However, how would you deal with warranties on hardware? Heh, it's just that I've built too many computers and repaired too many - I *was* a programmer before my job changed. Software, programming and OS work are more to my taste. Hardware warranties - hmmm, repairing equipment for free because it didn't survive burn-in - what *joy*! That's why I told someone who suggested I make my own range of computers that I wasn't interested. > Further I agree to a rather small range of hardware combinations as you > want attractive specs but also compatibility. Essentially this means you > have three or four sets of hardware and install each once and create an > image. This minimises the time for installations. That was what I thought myself. Configure the OS for the systems and mass produce it. Doing all the builds from the ground up would be both time consuming and open to error should a step be forgotten. Preplanning the software would be important - like the comment made at the meeting regarding firewalls and sewing them up too tight to allow the user to install ICQ - preinstall ICQ, factor it into the firewalling and it's there if the user wants it. If they don't, they don't have to use it. Yah, OK, so there's stuff on there they won't need, taking up space - like that's going to be a problem considering 20Gb is about the smallest HDD you can get these days :) Regards Jon Tocker ***There is no spoon*** ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] Linux (or anything) vs Windows on the preinstalled PC
by Jon Tocker 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

On 8 Mar 01, at 14:10, Bruce Kingsbury wrote: > From the network side Linux can be made _very_ secure, but the default > for most distributions is slightly less secure than a default 'doze > install, and it's only luck and obscurity that has saved us so far, imho.. Tell me about it - Shields Up website informed me I had more open ports than Venice. > The problem is that the big distro makers have a default install where > everything is enabled, including one or two well-known root-exploitable > services. In this enviromnent viruses and worms are inevitable but we can > make -our- boxes secure, and be sure that -we- never get them. Right - all the more reason for modifying whatever distro we use when we configure the OS and apps for any machine we set up. Regards Jon Tocker ***There is no spoon*** ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] Linux (or anything) vs Windows on the preinstalled PC
by Jon Tocker 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

On 7 Mar 01, at 21:48, Craig Box wrote: > Something you forget in the word-of-mouth sale approach to PCs: > > 1. "Hey, I got this cool new computer with Linux pre installed!" > 2. "Sweet. Hey, heres this disk with a game/cool program/document on it" > 1. "Erm.. I can't load it or use it sorry" 2. "That sucks dude. Get > Windows, everyone I know uses Windows (perhaps hands over warez Windows > CD)" Doze is not worth pirating. > Vicious cycle. Until Linux can interact 100% with Windows, how are you > going to sell it as a desktop OS? By pointing out that the viruses that infect Windows also won't run on Linux - especially VBS-based email and Word viruses. In order to make Linux 100% interactive with Windows, you'd have to make Linux as brain damaged as Windows. WinE has made some good advances in getting some Windows-based software running. Documents and graphics files are generally no problem. Providing our Linux box has Arial and Times New Roman fonts (they have extended characters in them that do not display if viewed using some Type A fonts - makes the conversion of some Word docs to Star Office problematic) most Word docs can be converted into Star Office or Applixware Office. Graphic files - jpg, gif etc - can be read without problems. Even animated gifs can be read. There are plenty of Linux games out there, including a lot that are popular on Windows that have been ported across or a similar game has been written from scratch. As to accessing the disk - my standard for Linux installs is to add another mount point: /mnt/msfloppy - same as /mnt/floppy but the type is VFAT. This allows a disk formatted on a doze box to be read and any *legitimate* stuff copied onto the linux box. Most the "cool programs" in the public domain that don't have a Linux equivalent are pure fluff (such as exe files that give a short video clip of someone stripping/having sex etc). Those that aren't in the public domain aren't allowed to be copied - what's the problem? You can get mpegs with people stripping if you're into that sort of thing - and they run fine on Linux. (oops ;P) The great joy about Linux is that the stuff written for it is largely free to be distributed, tested and modified (with a few exceptions) being able to pirate copyrighted software on your Linux box seems to me to defeat the purpose. The idea I have is to enlist more people in the notion of having a great community where you're *allowed* to circulate stuff that people have freely given, not to promote stealing stuff that people have invested moiney in and expect a return from. Hackers and Warez-d00dz both agree that software should be free. The main difference is that hackers say "here's what I've created, take it, distribute it, if it suits you, use it, if you can improve it let me know. This is my gift." A warez-d00d says "here's something I stole from someone else, I don't think they deserve to get a return on their investment." I for one agree with the hacker outlook. Many hackers are paid to create programs for those companies that charge money for their software; what the hacker creates during *free time*, for the love of hacking, is what is given away. But to eat the hacker maybe works for Broderbund or Adobe. I do not begrudge those companies who invest money in their product making a fair return. Let those who wish to charge for their creations do so, let those who wish to give their creations away do so as well. Let's try this scenario: 1. "Hey, I got this cool new computer with Linux pre installed!" 2. "Sweet. Hey, heres this disk with a game/cool program on it" 1. "Erm.. I can't load it or use it sorry" 2. "That sucks dude. Get Windows, everyone I know uses Windows 1. "And look at how many people voted for [insert favourite political scapegoat]! Actually, I've already got a Linux version of that game and I'm not interested in stealing someone's stuff when I've got a whole community out there giving me cool stuff for free. You can spend the rest of your life worrying about whether you'll get busted, if you like, I don't have that worry. The Linux-based software I've looked at so far that is not freely distributable is extremely well priced. Compare Applixware Office - $220 - with M$ Oriface 2000 - $1080. Gee, I wonder which I'd rather buy... Photoshop - certainly worth stealing IMHO, but the GIMP is free, so why bothr? AutoCAD is bloody horrifically priced, the Linux equivalent is free. Regards Jon Tocker ***There is no spoon*** ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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