- wlug - list.wlug.org.nz

Re: [wlug] IBM and the JVM
by s swami 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

On Wednesday 30 June 2004 22:43, Oliver wrote: > > Now Sun's JVM is a beautiful thing! And it is Sun's JVM that > > will take hardware customers from IBM to Sun. For the same > > money, Sun's JVM running on Solaris and Sun hardware will > > outperform the corresponding offering from IBM -- I reckon. And > > IBM knows it too. > > > > My conclusion: IBM are telling fibs, really obvious ones too. > > I'm not so sure about the current state of affairs but certainly in > JDK 1.3 days IBM's JVM and Jikes compiler were often quoted as > being faster and better than Sun's respectively. I was talking about the Sun combination vs the IBM combination. But I'll take it out since it detracts from the main point. Thanks. Sid.

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Trouble connecting linux to ValueNet
by Glenn Ramsey 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

Hi, My Dad has asked me to help with a dialup connection problem to ValueNet. He has Mandrake 9.0 and it works fine when connecting to Xtra. connection. The ValueNet connection also works fine from a win95 PC. From the log it appears that PPP is not starting: Valuenet with correct login data (same result with incorrect user name or password) Jun 24 20:50:03 localhost pppd[2645]: pppd 2.4.1 started by trevor, uid 1001 Jun 24 20:50:03 localhost pppd[2645]: using channel 38 Jun 24 20:50:03 localhost pppd[2645]: Using interface ppp0 Jun 24 20:50:03 localhost pppd[2645]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ham Jun 24 20:50:03 localhost pppd[2645]: sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0xe86fb3e4> <pcomp> <accomp>] Jun 24 20:50:06 localhost pppd[2645]: sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0xe86fb3e4> <pcomp> <accomp>] Jun 24 20:50:33 localhost pppd[2645]: LCP: timeout sending Config-Requests Jun 24 20:50:33 localhost pppd[2645]: Connection terminated. Jun 24 20:50:33 localhost pppd[2645]: Receive serial link is not 8-bit clean: Jun 24 20:50:33 localhost pppd[2645]: Problem: all had bit 7 set to 0 Jun 24 20:50:33 localhost pppd[2645]: Exit. Does anyone have a working linux dialup connection to ValueNet? If so would you be able to let me know what configuration is required? Anyone else got any ideas? TIA g -- Glenn Ramsey <glenn(a)componic.co.nz> 07 8627077 http://www.componic.co.nz

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WLUG Meeting is tonight
by Meeting Reminder bot 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

The WLUG meeting is this evening ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Targeting Linux to Business. GreigMcGill plans to cover: * What Linux is currently very good at. * What I think is required to improve this. * What Linux currently CAN'T do * What I think is required to help this * Some notes on advocating Linux to businesses. Please replace Linux with OSS/FreeBSD/Whatever as your needs dictate. :) CrawshawSchool.

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Re: [wlug] WLUG Meeting is tonight
by s swami 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

> > > The language doesn't have to be interpreted. Java is a > > > compiled language. It's just not compiled to the native > > > machine code. > > > > Most JVMs compile to native code, either JIT or ahead-of-time. > > Yes I know that the JVM does a certain amount of byte code to > native code translation. But this is implementation specific and > not guaranteed. It's called a virtual machine for a reason. Please clarify in your mind the differences among the language, the libraries and the JVM. Then you will realise that the specification for the Java language is silent about whether it is to be interpreted, byte-compiled or compiled to machine code. That is why I responded to your incorrect statements: "Java is a compiled language. It's just not compiled to the native machine code." by explicitly mentioning the JVM. You will also then realise why your claim that IBM has "forked" java is incorrect. (Aristotle points this out to you). As to fears of forking, they are genuine. here is a link for you: http://firebird.sourceforge.net/ And here is an excerpt from one of the pages from that site: --QUOTE------------------------------------------------------------- In August 2000, Borland Software Corp. (formerly known as Inprise) released the beta version of InterBase 6.0 as open source. The community of waiting developers and users preferred to establish itself as an independent, self-regulating team rather than submit to the risks, conditions and restrictions that the company proposed for community participation in open source development. A core of developers quickly formed a project and installed its own source tree on SourceForge. They liked the Phoenix logo which was to have been ISC's brandmark and adopted the name "Firebird" for the project. Because Borland's open source efforts regarding InterBase never really took off beyond prime release of the source code and the company returned its focus to closed commercial development, Firebird became THE Open Source version of InterBase. --END OF QUOTE-------------------------------------------------------- <ethical_rant> You see what these f--ks did? Now I don't give a shit what reasons they had, they should have gotten over it like Netscape/Mozilla did. It goes against the values I hold -- respect the company for the steps they took to open their sources and work with them for the benefit of all. If you have a problem, get some self-respect and write your own damn code from scratch. As more companies open their sources, I hope that similar sentiments to mine will enter the hacker ethic. </ethical_rant> > The main reason is so that Java's fortunes are not tied to Suns > fortunes. Which frankly are looking a little bleak. > ... Java as a platform is not tied to Sun's fortunes. Read the license, write code and give the code to Sun. You, IBM and MS can all do that. So far I have seen two arguments for "open sourcing" Java that are worth considering: (1) It will be convenient for Debian users since it will enable apt to transparently manage any packages. (2) Freedom will be good for the platform. To (1): This is a problem with Debian and apt. It can't be the download (I do it on my 33K) it is the hoops that /Debian/ and /apt/ require us to jump through. To (2): Yes. Let us hope that if it happens, we get a license similar in spirit to that of freedom, that Sun is given the respect it deserves and is able to profit fairly from it. And boy if I see the Firebird faction turning their evil green eyes thataway ... Sid

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Re: [wlug] WLUG Meeting is tonight
by s swami 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

My replies to Daniel: > >You see what these f--ks did? Now I don't give a shit what reasons > >they had, they should have gotten over it like Netscape/Mozilla > > did. > > Which f--ks are that? Borland? I was using a lot of Borland > products at the time, so I remember the release of Interbase quite > clearly. It definitely had the feel of a company wishing to keep > dead code alive. Interbase was a good RDBMS, but it was losing > marketshare to SQL Server. IMO, the move to open source Interbase > was pushed by this, and not neccesarily out of any good will to the > world. These folks :-) referred to Firebird developers. Perhaps I was insufficiently clear: the context was the risks of "forking". Firebird forked Interbase and I don't care what their reasons were. They should have worked with Borland. > >It goes against the values I hold -- respect the company for the > >steps they took to open their sources and work with them for the > >benefit of all. If you have a problem, get some self-respect and > >write your own damn code from scratch. > > Now you seem to be talking about the Firebird developers (where did > the Netscape analogy go?) What's wrong with forking a codebase? > Especially if you think that the original codebase was released by > a company in trouble, as a way to wipe their hands of a dying > product. There we go, whats wrong with forking Java? And this is what concerns Sun and java developers like me. > > Don't get me wrong, I'm dead again the > zillion-opensource-products-to-do-the-one-thing sort of mentality > (yet another emacs with wordstar bindings and tetris.... what's the > point?), but in the case where you have taken a supposedly open > sourced product, and found that the group in charge of it is being > slow or tedious to get patches accepted, and in fact don't even > seem to *care* any more, what's the problem with forking it? It is > better to fork it than lose ongoing development entirely, surely? Java gets forked because MS feels that their patches aren't being accepted fast enough. > >As more companies open their sources, I hope that similar > > sentiments to mine will enter the hacker ethic. > > Your sentiment being "Always write your own code from scratch, > rather than take a useful codebase and work on it"? I hope not. > You're missing out on one of the most powerful aspects of open > source - you can take a project and modify it and release that, > legally. That is not my sentiment. But you highlight the risks of forking again. > Maybe I should point out where a fork has been beneficial: Samba > and Samba-TNG (The Next Generation). Samba TNG was forked at a time > where some of the developers thought the direction the main Samba > team was going was wrong. TNG was aimed at rewriting parts of the > core of Samba to do things much closer to the way windows does it. > Now, if Luke Leighton got "some self-respect and wrote [his] own > code from scratch", TNG would never have taken off. Far too much > work. This is not the same as my example. Interbase was originally close sourced, Samba was always open and developed by the community. If a large part of the community (read people who contributed code) feel the need for a change of direction, that is fine by me (similarly, I feel fine about X.org). You see these guys working on Samba-TNG and X.org contributed greatly to the original products. Now the f__ks who quickly set up their own Interbase repository and called it Firebird did not contribute a single line of code to what was a mature product (Interbase) -- they couldn't, it had been closed. They did not have the pedigree of the likes of Leighton or Packard and friends who also forked their originals. Forking in itself is not bad, it's who forks it and why. These ethical questions can be seen as relative. Hackers will vote with their fingers. If enough agree with my sentiments, these will enter the hacker ethic. (I hope I've made myself clearer). > >To (1): This is a problem with Debian and apt. It can't be the > >download (I do it on my 33K) it is the hoops that /Debian/ and > > /apt/ require us to jump through. > > If the license says you can't redistribute it, then any > distribution which prefers to maintain it's own repositories will > have this problem. I don't want to get into a discussion of what the different parties mean by "redistribute". Let's just look at it empirically: Java comes on every major Linix distribution disk apart from Debian. FreeBSD has negotiated a license with Sun that allows it to distribute Java from the FreeBSD site. NetBSD are doing something similar. Apple comes with Java. Clearly the problem is the Debian stance. Distributions can choose to be flexible. We all know of Linus's flexibility wrt to binary drivers "in" the kernel just as we know of RMS's opposite view. For Debian it is a religious question. That's fine. > Sure, you can always download it manually. And you can go and set > up your environment manually to path it correctly. And you can > setup binfmt so that you can just run a java app without having to > know it's java. What happens when you want to put a package that > depends on the jvm into your repository however? It is *really* > messy having a dependancy installed from source. Then your package sytem has a weakness with "having a dependancy installed from source". You could improve your packaging system or mandate (I'm being cheeky: substutute "ask") that all software conform with your broken packaging system. > >To (2): Yes. Let us hope that if it happens, we get a license > > similar in spirit to that of freedom, that Sun is given the > > respect it deserves and is able to profit fairly from it. > > > >And boy if I see the Firebird faction turning their evil green > > eyes thataway ... > > Get over it. If Borland stopped development of Interbase after > releasing it, it was because Borland didn't care enough about it. > Firebird did nothing wrong, other than force Mozilla to change the > name of it's browser a second time in short order. Interbase is still being developed by Borland. I will never use or support Firebird.

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Gotcha!
by Michael & Colleen McDonald 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

Not so long ago I decided to dabble my toes in the waters of Linux, to broaden my experience and see for myself if it can truly replace that "other" operating system. I purchased a new system with 2 disk drives and proceeded with some testing. Since I wasn't ready to break "the ties that bind", my plan was to install Linux on the slave drive and that other system on the master. Fedora Core 1 loaded nicely onto the slave drive. But ... on booting the system, "GRUB" would appear on the screen (no menu) and there it would stay. Fortunately I had created a boot floppy. Away I could go, having to boot from floppy. Just as well I had a floppy drive! That boot floppy was transferred to CD within a couple of days. The other operating system was loaded on to the master drive. No problems there, but it was interesting to note that many drivers had to loaded (with much rebooting of the system) before all the hardware was operational - whereas Linux coped "out of the box". Was surprised to find that my system drive was "G:" ... because of the Linux partitions set up earlier. Along comes Fedora Core 2. Great! The install went like a charm ... until the reboot. Of course, Grub still wouldn't load. The boot diskette (CD) for the 2.4 Kernel proved useless too! I've tried, without success to recreate the loader, even trying to put the loader on /hda. Even went to the extent of renaming some files in the boot partition on /hdb1 ... that caused the installer to think I needed a new loader (which is what I intended!), but when it came to the end of the installation it said the loader was up to date so it didn't need to replace it. "Help!" ... any suggestions please? Michael

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RE: [wlug] WLUG Meeting is tonight
by Lindsay Druett 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

And someone here can organise a bus for a trip to Taupo and back... :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Lawson [mailto:daniel(a)meta.net.nz] > Sent: Monday, 28 June 2004 14:33 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] WLUG Meeting is tonight > > You really should try to make it up for a meeting sometime > Oliver. Taupo > isn't that far away. Perhaps you could even present a meeting > of your own? > > Daniel > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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p200 server
by Gavin Denby 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

A while back I was offered a full server size p200 for a file server. I have lost the e-mail from the offer, and cant find who it was. Could that person please contact me off list. Thanks.

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OT - Need a CD copy - Visual C#.net standard Version 2002
by Gavin Denby 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

I have a fully licensed version of this software, but disk 1 has been damaged, and I cannot install it. Microsoft will sell me replacement Media at $50NZ but before I fork out more money on this, I thought I'd ask if anyone has a set of this with CD 1 that I can get a Backup of to allow me to work past the damaged bit of the media on disk 1, and install the software on my new laptop. otherwise its more dollars for Microsoft NZ that I would rather spend elsewhere. I need this for a course. so any help will be appreciated. After that I can migrate to mono. Please reply to me off list as this really has nothing to do with Linux, but since we have so many smart programmers here, someone may be able to help me hang on to a few dollars. Sorry if this traffic is a annoyance, I won't ask here again. honest.

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Wee problem with Samba
by Shane Taylor 24 Jun '04

24 Jun '04

Hi. I'm having a wee problem with Samba. It's configured to be the Netbios Master Browser for my home network. It's working perfectly ..... except that the browse list only contains a single machine - the Samba machine. I can get to any other machine using it's netbios name - \\megans - and everything works fine. The logs all show that it's working alright - it wins all the browser elections and no errors show up. The only weird thing I've noticed is that in the "log.<machine name>" lanman.c is mentioned after a client connection is made (shouldn't come into things at all but I don't think it's any problem??). Otherwise, things look just peachy. I've tried all the usual stuff (smbstatus/smbclient/nbtstat .... created shares and they show up etc), google, docs from all over the place blah yadda etc. Not a damn thing :( Any ideas?? I'm running Debian unstable with the 2.6.6 kernel and Samba 3.0.4. smb.conf [global] netbios name = debian workgroup = Workgroup wins support = yes security = share os level = 65 domain logons = no domain master = yes preferred master = yes local master = yes hosts allow = 192.168.1. 127. interfaces = eth0 lo bind interfaces only = Yes interfaces = 192.168.1.1/24 name resolve order = wins lmhosts host bcast browse list = yes dns proxy = yes printing = cups printcap name = /etc/printcap load printers = yes guest account = nobody log level = 3 log file = /var/log/samba/log.%m Netstat -a shows: tcp 0 0 debian:netbios-ssn *:* LISTEN tcp 0 0 debian:microsoft-ds *:* LISTEN udp 0 0 debian:netbios-ns *:* udp 0 0 *:netbios-ns *:* udp 0 0 debian:netbios-dgm *:* udp 0 0 *:netbios-dgm *:* debian:/usr/local/samba/var/locks# cat wins.dat VERSION 1 0 "__MSBROWSE__#01" 1088324891 255.255.255.255 e4R "DEBIAN#00" 1088283997 192.168.1.1 66R "DEBIAN#03" 1088283997 192.168.1.1 66R "DEBIAN#20" 1088283997 192.168.1.1 66R "MEGANS#00" 1088324846 192.168.1.41 64R "MEGANS#20" 1088324846 192.168.1.41 64R "MTROUSERS#00" 1088324803 192.168.1.10 64R "MTROUSERS#20" 1088324803 192.168.1.10 64R "RITWA#00" 1088311573 192.168.1.12 64R "RITWA#03" 1088311591 192.168.1.12 64R "RITWA#20" 1088311592 192.168.1.12 64R "WORKGROUP#00" 1088324846 255.255.255.255 e4R "WORKGROUP#1b" 1088283997 192.168.1.1 64R "WORKGROUP#1e" 1088324846 255.255.255.255 e4R debian:/usr/local/samba/var/locks# cat browse.dat "WORKGROUP" c0001000 "DEBIAN" "WORKGROUP" "DEBIAN" 400d9a03 "Samba 3.0.4" "WORKGROUP" ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

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