- wlug - list.wlug.org.nz

Fedora QA Lead Pans Canonical 'Propaganda' On Snap Apps
by Peter Reutemann 18 Jun '16

18 Jun '16

'...and how it's going to unite all distributions and kill apt and rpm! This is, to put it diplomatically, a heaping pile of steaming bullshit... The press release and the stories together give you the strong impression that this thing called Snappy is going to be the cross-distribution future of application delivery, and it's all ready for use today and lots of major distributions are buying into it... The stories have headlines like "Adios apt and yum? Ubuntu's snap apps are coming to distros everywhere" and "Snap Packages Become Universal Binary Format for All GNU/Linux Distributions"... Now, does Snappy actually have the cross-distribution buy-in that the press release claims (but never outright states) that it has? No... The sum total of communication between Canonical and Fedora before the release of this press release was that they mailed us asking about the process of packaging snappy for Fedora, and we told them about the main packaging process and COPR. They certainly did not in any way inform Fedora that they were going to send out a press release strongly implying that Fedora, along with every other distro in the world, was now a happy traveler on the Snappy bandwagon... They just decided to send out a wildly misleading press release and actively encourage the specialist press to report that Snappy was all set to take over the world and everyone was super happy with that.' -- source: https://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/06/18/1550249 Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

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The Biggest Maker of Raspberry Pis Has Been Acquired For $871 Million
by Peter Reutemann 14 Jun '16

14 Jun '16

'The biggest manufacturer of the Raspberry Pi minicomputer, Premier Farnell, has been acquired by Swiss industrial component supplier Daetwyler Holding AG for roughly $871 million. According to Bloomberg, the deal will reportedly help both companies compete better in the components market. "By combining forces, we significantly increase our competitiveness and extend our product range," Daetwyler Chairman Ulrich said in a statement, "facilitating a one-stop shopping experience for our wide range of customers from a multitude of industries." Premier Farnell is one of the only companies with a license to design and distribute Raspberry Pis. The Wall Street Journal says the Raspberry Pi devices are a big part of the company's business, as the division in charge of the Pi raked in 16 percent of the company's total revenue last year.' -- source: https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/06/14/2044241 Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

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Adios apt and yum? Ubuntu’s snap apps are coming to distros everywhere
by Peter Reutemann 14 Jun '16

14 Jun '16

'Ubuntu's "snappy" new way of packaging applications is no longer exclusive to Ubuntu. Canonical today is announcing that snapd, the tool that allows snap packages to be installed on Ubuntu, has been ported to other Linux distributions including Debian, Arch, Fedora, and Gentoo, among others.' -- source: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/06/goodbye-apt-and-yum-u… Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

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Thousands of Email Addresses Accidentally Disclosed By Let's Encrypt Anonymous
by Peter Reutemann 12 Jun '16

12 Jun '16

'"Let's Encrypt, the certificate authority best known for offering free SSL/TLS certificates, has reported that it accidentally disclosed thousands of user email addresses due to a bug with an automated emailing system." Executive Director Josh Aas posted this announcement: On June 11 2016 (UTC), we started sending an email to all active subscribers who provided an email address, informing them of an update to our subscriber agreement. This was done via an automated system which contained a bug that mistakenly prepended between 0 and 7,618 other email addresses to the body of the email... The problem was noticed and the system was stopped after 7,618 out of approximately 383,000 emails (1.9%) were sent. Each email mistakenly contained the email addresses from the emails sent prior to it, so earlier emails contained fewer addresses than later ones. We take our relationship with our users very seriously and apologize for the error... If you received one of these emails we ask that you not post lists of email addresses publicly.' -- source: http://m.slashdot.org/story/312355 Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz

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Trimming etc continued
by Michelle 11 Jun '16

11 Jun '16

I am posting this here under a new heading because it's late and I can't seem to figure out how to send a reply to the mailing list without also sending it to the person who posted it. Or is that what is supposed to happen? Eric, thanks for reposting that for me and for your continued input. Wolf, I appreciate all that info. You've both sent me so much information I'm gonna take a little while to look at it. Paul, apology accepted, it's hard to know on the internet sometimes what's meant. Michelle

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Attention: HAL 9000 Owners
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 11 Jun '16

11 Jun '16

We have just received word of an important new book: *Programming Instructions for the HAL 9000 Computer*, revised edition. The new edition of the HAL 9000 handbook has been updated to incorporate improvements suggested by this versatile machine’s surviving users. In particular, the manufacturers suggest that priority be given to the retrofitting of small explosive charges at strategic points in the central memory unit. Authorized by Arthur C Clarke Chief Semantic Controls Engineer Colombo SRI LANKA (Found in the December 1978 issue of BYTE Magazine, downloaded from archive.org.)

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Firefox Finally Confirms 'Largest Change Ever' Featuring Electrolysis In v48
by Peter Reutemann 09 Jun '16

09 Jun '16

'With Electrolysis, Firefox can use child processes for content (tabs), media playback and legacy plug-ins. This is some way short of Google Chrome, which uses a different process for each tab. However, the result is that Chrome is a huge resource hog: Chrome uses roughly twice as much memory as Firefox on Windows and Linux. Eric Rahm has run some browser tests with Electrolysis, and says: "Overall we see a 10-20 percent increase in memory usage for the 1 content process case (which is what we plan on shipping initially). This seems like a fair trade-off for potential security and performance benefits." With 8 content processes, Rahm says: "we see roughly a doubling of memory usage on the TabsOpenSettled measurement. It's a bit worse on Windows, a bit better on OS X, but it's not 8 times worse."' -- source: https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/06/08/1635231 Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

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The Web's Creator Thinks We Need a New One That Governments Can't Control
by Peter Reutemann 09 Jun '16

09 Jun '16

'The web has created millions of jobs, impacted nearly every industry, connected people, and arguably made the world a better place. But the person who started it all isn't exactly pleased with the way things have turned out to be. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, who invented the World Wide Web, believes that the way it works in the present day "completely undermines the spirit of helping people create." The Next Web reports: "Edward Snowden showed we've inadvertently built the world's largest surveillance network with the web," said Brewster Kahle, who heads up Internet Archive. And he's not wrong: governments across the globe keep an eye on what their citizens are accessing online and some censor content on the Web in an effort to control what they think. To that end, Berners-Lee, Kahle and other pioneers of the modern Web are brainstorming ideas for a new kind of information network that can't be controlled by governments or powered by megacorporations like Amazon and Google.' -- source: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/06/08/196225 Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

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Re: [wlug] TRIMMING POSTS -- PLEASE ???!!!
by Eric Light 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

(Michelle you sent this to me directly, but I believe you intended to send it to the whole mailing list, so I'll include that here. I've left the history included, in spite of Ian's entreaties otherwise, for the benefit of those who want to see what I'm replying to) Ah, I understand a bit better now. By and large, Linux is relatively untouched by garden variety malware. However, your browser (cross-platform, JavaScripty, etc) can still fall prey to security issues, which sounds the case here. I note you said you were running NoScript, so it comes as a surprise, but I suppose they're always thinking up new avenues. That said, I don't think the Oprah thing is related to your missing files! I can't say what happened, but its vanishingly unlikely that a browser hijack could have deleted files on a LINUX system... On Windows, sure, but to perform that action on a Linux pc, the malware would need to be designed FOR Linux - and that's particularly unlikely. Okay so we've established that you want privacy, but overall you want a system where you can easily recover from corruption... Is that correct? I'm sticking with my recommendation for Debian - probably Linux Mint Debian Edition, because it's:- got a solid base (Debian) - got a wide user base (thus lots of testing) - got a lovely UI (Cinnamon) - specifically designed to be easy to use On top of this, you can install Sophos Antivirus for Linux... It's free, and it has some of the highest detection rates in the industry (note, solving a problem that barely even exists in a Linux environment, but which you may have encountered nonetheless). Since your threat profile sounds like browser-based malware, it might be worth looking into specifically sandboxing your browser. I know Chrome already does sandboxing between tabs and threads, so that might already be in place, but it sounds plausible. Alternatively, putting your /home partition on a filesystem that supports snapshots might be a good idea... Maybe ZFS? That sounds like a good solution to me, but I'll have to defer to the wizards in the group. ☺ Good luck!Eric -- Securely sent with Tutanota. It's good, you should try it: https://tutanota.com 7. Jun 2016 20:08 by michelle400(a)orcon.net.nz: > > Woops. Sorry. I used the wrong term, I used BUG when I should have used > MALWARE. Biological viruses are bugs and so instead of the term malware, > I've used bug for viruses, trojans etc.....So in other words I think I > caught some malware on my Toshiba despite those safety measures. And I > think the safest thing for a non computer expert like myself to do to keep > it from happening again is to install the safest and secure distros that > I've heard of. (I'm now not sure whether that person I mentioned was > talking about bug(s) or malware). > > William, thanks for looking out for me back there. > > Eric, thank you for going out of your way to make me feel better. You're a > clss act. I couldn't figure out why you were recommending a very stable > distro, and then I got it - I used the wrong term. Thanks again for your > input. > > > > On 2016-06-07 16:25, Eric Light wrote: >> Hi Michelle, >> >> I'm sorry that you feel you've been maligned and attacked. We do try >> hard to make this a safe forum for everyone. For what it's worth, most >> of us here ARE a bit batty, each in our own way. >> >> Security and safety, along with reliability and usability, are also >> the reasons I use Linux. You're in good company there. >> >> I feel that Whonix+Qubes is over-engineering. I haven't had any >> responses to my email last night re TAILS+grsecurity (ALSO >> over-engineering), but TAILS' lack of persistence makes it a drag for >> day-to-day use; Whonix sacrifices some security for usability there. >> >> What problem are you trying to solve? What is your threat profile that >> you're trying to defend yourself against? If you're just trying to >> avoid bugs in your distro, you could just go with Debian Stable, which >> will give you a reliable, secure, and well-known system, with very few >> "tricky bits". >> >> E >> >> -- >> Securely sent with Tutanota. It's good, you should try it: >> https://tutanota.com>> [1] >> >> 7. Jun 2016 15:43 by >> michelle400(a)orcon.net.nz>> : >> >>> Well when I looked at the mailing list page today I was totally >>> shocked to find I'd been maligned and attacked. I know that that >>> happens on other forums (yes I realize this is a mailing list) but I >>> didn't think it would happen here. I guess that I just got schooled. >>> >>> Perhaps I should say a few things. The only reason for me choosing >>> Linux over windows is security and safety. It may be different for >>> computer experts, but that's it for me. >>> >>> So anyway I have Mint on my Toshiba and some months back I clicked >>> to a page with info on Oprah Winfrey. The site then clicked on and >>> off and on and off etc. I closed the page and opened history. Here >>> the site was listed maybe 25 to 50 times. Then say that day or the >>> next, my most used folder disappeared from it's space. I found it in >>> the thrash. And that happened with maybe another couple of folders. >>> Someone said that Mint had had problems with a bug/bugs this >>> year/last year? >>> >>> So anyway I presume that I caught a bug and that it's still there. >>> (Don't worry,the emails I send on this phone and not the Toshiba). >>> This happened inspite of the fact that I use Mozilla, adblock and >>> NoScript, although they may not have been up to date. Computer >>> experts, if their machine gets infected may be able to debug it and >>> be confident that it's clear, but I can't. I figure the best way to >>> protect myself from now on is to have the safest set up from the >>> start. And from a bit of research I did on the net it appears that >>> that maybe Whonix and Qubes. >>> >>> On 2016-06-07 06:53, Paul Wilson wrote:I would be trending to a tent >>> inside a faraday cage, at least 50kms >>> from the nearest populated town. :p >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 6/06/2016, at 11:41 PM, Eric Light <>>> eric(a)ericlight.com>>> > wrote: >>> YES I FIND THIS MUCH LESS ANNOYING, THANKS WILLIAM �� >>> >>> Battiness aside, I suspect the answer to Michelle's problem isn't >>> Whonix on Qubes on an old laptop. It sounds like excessive >>> engineering for no good reason. Did anyone else have similar >>> thoughts? >>> >>> If I were going full-on paranoia mode, I'd be running TAILS, >>> probably with a grsecurity-patched kernel, and probably through an >>> offshore VPN. What do you guys think? >>> >>> E >>> >>> -- >>> Securely sent with Tutanota. It's good, you should try it: >>> https://tutanota.com>>> [1] [2] >>> >>> 6. Jun 2016 23:32 by >>> will(a)artcontrol.me>>> : >>> IS THIS BETTER? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> wlug mailing list | >>> wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >>> Unsubscribe: >>> https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug>>> [2] >>> [1] >>> _______________________________________________ >>> wlug mailing list | >>> wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >>> Unsubscribe: >>> https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug>>> [2] >>> [1] >> >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] >> https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug>> [2] >> [2] >> https://tutanota.com>> [1] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> wlug mailing list | >> wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >> Unsubscribe: >> https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug>> [2] >> _______________________________________________ >> wlug mailing list | >> wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >> Unsubscribe: >> https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug>> [2] >> >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] >> https://tutanota.com >> [2] >> https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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TRIMMING POSTS -- PLEASE ???!!!
by Ian Young 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

The saga of 'Michelle' (iirc) and her Linux problems is no doubt fascinating but could we possibly stop wasting bandwidth by broadcasting the entire sorry saga time and time again ... just asking. Aside from any other considerations it makes it difficult to determine whether there is any new data on the case. Far be it from me to speculate on whether the poster is just a wee bit batty .....

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I can pay 150 if somone is willing to help me out with setting up a computer
by Michelle 05 Jun '16

05 Jun '16

Hi, My name's Michelle. I've been using Linux on and off for the last few years. I'm looking for someone who would help me set up a computer with linux on it. I rang round all? or most the PB tech stores, they didn't have anyone who was up to the task. I rang a store where a guy was into Linux but they're too busy. I sent an email to a guy involved with one of the distros I want but even though it's on the web to contact him to pay for help he hasn't got back to me. A man kindly pointed out to me two computers from PB tech that he says will work but as you can see from the post I've had some trouble with computers not working or not working properly and I want to pay some money for someone to try the distros and experience that it works on a computer for sure. I had a Dell on which I set up Puppy with no problem whatsoever. The computer died and so then I took the puppy distro and the other disto I'd bought (can't remember what) and tried to install them on 2 older computers I had but it didn't work. I don't know why, maybe it was because one of the distros was on a USB drive and not compatible or maybe both computer hard drives were stuffed? After that I bought a mini-pc (I think it was supposed to run linux) but it didn't work at all. Then I bought a tablet but after a month or two it stopped working or pretty much? Stopped working. So I just used a phone for about a year and last year bought a brand new Toshiba laptop. The problem with this was two fold: 1. It was a laptop. 2. It was a Toshiba (oh how I hate Toshiba) I had known that not all computers were readily compatible with linux but after my easy experience with the Dell I wasn't too concerned. I bought two linux distros on different media and hoped/assumed? that something would work – it didn't. I bought another say 2 or 3 distros and managed to get the Mint to install on this Toshiba. It wasn't until after this annoying endeavor that I found out online that: -⁠ laptops are less compatible than desktops with linux and that - Toshiba out of the maybe top 6 or 8 computer manufacturers is consistantly about the least compatible with linux ( I HATE TOSHIBA) I don't happen to have a few spear thousand dollars sitting around to enable me to buy a computer and try and set it up with the distros I want, find it dosen't work, buy another computer, find it doesn't work, buy another and finally find one that works with the distros I want. So I am sending this message and hoping someone can help me set up a computer with the two linux distros I want. I don't know how that would work. Maybe someone is about to buy a new computer and can try these distros before they put theirs on, maybe someone has a partition on their computer that is spare and can try it there, maybe they own a computer shop or work in a computer shop or at a university or polytech with computers or computer parts around. So for anyone who may be willing to help me here is what I would like: - I'm up for paying up to 700 but would prefer to just pay say 400 or 500. - a desktop (not the modern ones that are a computer plus other thing/s but just a computer -⁠ not a toshiba -⁠ Whonix to run on top of Qubes. Whonix is great for anonimity and Qubes is designed for security/⁠safety. - I have a DrayTek vigor 120 modem. I connect it via DSL. When looking into whonix I read that it is complex to configure and setup, so I was hoping that you might have such a modem or access to one and set it up with whonix and then tell me how you did it. - I don't want the computer to come with wifi or bluetooth or any similar thing. I don't want it just not running, I don't want it there at all. - I'm wanting to install 3 old encyclopedias. I was reading about the new versions online and people were recommending old ones. I've bought Encarta 2004, 2001 and Encyclopaedia Britannica '98. To run them on I've bought Windows 98 second edition and Windows NT (first edition?). If you have or could borrow these windows OS could you see if you could get them running in whonix or qubes? - One or both of the encyclopedias need 2 DVD players so I'd like at least 2 DVD players with one being a recorder. - I'm not looking for a high end computer. As long as it will play youtube, that's fast enough. BUT I would appreciate hearing any recommendation about if I just add such and such for $100 or $150 it would go much faster. I'd like 500GB hard drive at least and I've been recommended to get 8GB RAM at least. I wouldn't buy the computer off you but rather if you could tell me what computer/computer parts worked, I'd pay up to $150 for the info. If 10 different people told me what worked of course I couldn't pay 10 different people $150. So to prevent two or more different people working on it at the same time, if you are willing to help me out could you please let me know and I could post a message just asking that no one else start working on it. It would be nice to have a choice of say two or three computers. So perhaps someone could say there is this computer or that one and I could ask you to try installing Whonix and Qubes on one of them. Or maybe there was a choice of two computers in parts and I could be told the parts of one computer and the other and I could choose the parts for one. It doesn't have to be brand new. As long as I can still buy it or the parts new it could be up to two years old. Thank you to anyone willing to help Michelle Gorringe.

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Op-ed: Oracle attorney says Google’s court victory might kill the GPL
by Peter Reutemann 03 Jun '16

03 Jun '16

"The developer community may be celebrating today what it perceives as a victory in Oracle v. Google. Google won a verdict that an unauthorized, commercial, competitive, harmful use of software in billions of products is fair use. No copyright expert would have ever predicted such a use would be considered fair. Before celebrating, developers should take a closer look. Not only will creators everywhere suffer from this decision if it remains intact, but the free software movement itself now faces substantial jeopardy." -- source: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/op-ed-oracle-attorney-says-googl… Interesting article, I have to say. The verdict might throw a spanner in what is considered "derivative work" in terms of GPL code. Companies using GPL libraries will no longer have to open-source their code, as it is simple considered fair use? Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

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Linux Kernel 4.6.1 Released; Some Users Report Boot Issue
by Peter Reutemann 02 Jun '16

02 Jun '16

'Linux kernel 4.6.1 is already here, only two weeks after the official launch of the Linux 4.6 kernel series. For those not in the loop, Linux 4.6 branch is the latest and most advanced kernel branch available right now for GNU/Linux operating systems, but it looks like its adoption is a little slow at the moment. "I'm announcing the release of the 4.6.1 kernel. All users of the 4.6 kernel series must upgrade," says Greg Kroah-Hartman. "The updated 4.6.y git tree can be browsed at the normal kernel.org git web browser."' 'Several folks on the web have reported a regression in the latest Linux kernels, starting with 4.6.1 and including the 4.7 beta that prevents booting and drops to busybox, at least the one supplied by the Ubuntu PPA. The boot sequence ends with "address family not supported by protocol: error getting socket" and then, "error initializing udev control socket" (screenshot here).' -- source: https://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/06/02/1717235 Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

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BBC Micro:Bit Learn-To-Code Device Up For Public Pre-Order In UK
by Peter Reutemann 02 Jun '16

02 Jun '16

'A tiny programmable board designed as part of an educational initiative for UK kids to learn programming skills and originally distributed by the public service broadcaster, the BBC, to one million schoolchildren is now up for public pre-order. The micro:bit is available for public pre-order in the UK, via Element14's website, with delivery slated for July. Although at this point it's being sold in minimum quantities of 90 for resellers (such as Microsoft) to then sell on to individuals. So consumers will have a bit longer to wait to be able to buy a device just for themselves. Prices start at 12.99 Pound ($19) for a single BBC micro:bit; 14.99 Pound for a starter kit which includes a BBC micro:bit, mini USB, battery pack and four project ideas; and 140 Pound for a 'BBC micro:bit Club' pack, which includes 10 devices and "everything needed to get a coding club started". The intention with the micro:bit project -- part of the BBC's wider 'Make it Digital' initiative to inspire "a new generation to get creative with coding, programming and digital technology" -- was always to open up the distribution of the device after the initial giveaway.' -- source: https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/16/06/01/1548252 Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

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Tor Browser 6.0: Ditches SHA-1 Support, Uses DuckDuckGo For Default Search Results
by Peter Reutemann 01 Jun '16

01 Jun '16

"The version 6.0 of Tor Browser, a free software for enabling anonymous communication, is now available to download. The new version introduces several changes, including disabling SHA-1 support, and removing Mac Gatekeeper issue. Another big change is that Tor now uses DuckDuckGo for search results by default. The Tor Project, people behind Tor, add that the "updater is not relying on the signature alone, but is checking the hash of the downloaded update file as well before applying it." More details on NetworkWorld." -- source: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/05/31/1643234 Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

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Issue with systemd
by Ian Young 30 May '16

30 May '16

>From this week's Distrowatch. Could be a problem in some circumstances. The systemd project tends to stir up debate with each new feature it implements. One of the most recent changes to systemd (available in version 230), forces user processes to terminate when the user logs out. On some systems, such behaviour makes sense and effectively cleans up misbehaving processes when the user leaves. However, many administrators and developers rely on processes continuing to run to perform tests, backups or other tasks after they log off. Guus Sliepen summed up the concerns of the latter group quite nicely in a Debian bug report: It is now indeed the case that any background processes that were still running are killed automatically when the user logs out of a session, whether it was a desktop session, a VT session, or when you SSHed into a machine. Now you can no longer expect a long running background processes to continue after logging out. I believe this breaks the expectations of many users. For example, you can no longer start a screen or tmux session, log out, and expect to come back to it. For this reason, I think it is a bad decision on the part of the systemd maintainers to enable this feature by default, and it should rather be disabled by default in Debian." A similar discussion is taking place on a Fedora mailing list. The new default systemd behaviour can be disabled (either by distributions or system administrators) by editing the logind configuration file.

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Re: [wlug] Issue with systemd
by Andrew Crosby 30 May '16

30 May '16

To my mind, this seems like a useful feature. Odd choice to have it turned on by default though given the historic convention. Cheers Andrew On 30 May 2016 22:47, "Michael Cree" <mcree(a)orcon.net.nz> wrote: On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 10:22:13AM +0000, Ian Young wrote: > It is now indeed the case that any background processes > that were still running are killed automatically when the user logs > out of a session, whether it was a desktop session, a VT session, or > when you SSHed into a machine. Now you can no longer expect a long > running background processes to continue after logging out. I believe > this breaks the expectations of many users. Yes, it breaks the well established practice that the controlling terminal sends all its child processes a HUP signal on logout, and that the default signal handler will kill such processes, and if the process wants to remain running it therefore establishes a signal handler to properly receive and handle the HUP signal so that it is not terminated. If processes are not being terminated on logout when they should be, then it is the non-terminating processes fault as the process has taken action to set up a non-default signal hangler to receive the HUP signal to achieve this effect. It is most certainly not the responsibility of systemd to kill processes on logout! With these critical and non-sensical changes to system behaviour that is well without the established remit of the init process the systemd developers are fast losing what little respect I might have had for them. Cheers Michael. _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Apropos...
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 30 May '16

30 May '16

<https://twitter.com/nicholasbishop/status/737014814342533121/photo/1>

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Whom to contact for a public mirror for a Linux distribution?
by Michael Doerner - Technologywise 26 May '16

26 May '16

Hi all I am involved with a Linux distribution called "Koozali SME server" (https://wiki.contribs.org/Main_Page) Unfortunately we lost our mirror in NZ (Oceania) due to very sad circumstances and I am looking whether there is a chance to add that distro to one of the existing public mirrors. I am following the Wiki http://wiki.wlug.org.nz/NewZealandLinuxMirrors and would like to ask at University of Canterbury (Hm, there is a directory on their mirror server called "contrib" and I wonder whether there was something planned at some time ago). If someone here knows how to get in contact (email?) with an admin person there, I would appreciate any hint. Thanks Michael Doerner

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Google to bring official Android support to the Raspberry Pi 3
by Peter Reutemann 26 May '16

26 May '16

"The Raspberry Pi 3 is not hurting for operating system choices. The tiny ARM computer is supported by several Linux distributions and even has a version of Windows 10 IoT core available. Now, it looks like the Pi is about to get official support for one of the most popular operating systems out there: Android. In Google's Android Open Source Project (AOSP) repository, a new device tree recently popped up for the Raspberry Pi 3." -- source: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/05/google-to-bring-official-android-sup… Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

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Behold, The Raspberry π Citrix Client
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 25 May '16

25 May '16

Citrix have unveiled their new desktop thin client built around a Raspberry π 3 <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/24/citrix_bakes_up_raspberry_pi_client/>, for USD89. "In classic disruptive fashion, the Raspberry Pi has already taken a significant share of the education PC market with over 8 million devices shipped," Citrix VP of emerging solutions Chris Fleck said...

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live edition of forthcoming Slackware release
by Ian Young 25 May '16

25 May '16

Anyone who takes an interest in Slackware may like to check out a live version recently made available. Mentioned in this week's Distrowatch Weekly. Link to project blog below. http://alien.slackbook.org/blog/stable-1-0-0-release-of-liveslak/

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Fwd: Bruce Gilbert suggested a new Meetup for WLUG - Waikato Linux Users Group
by Peter Reutemann 25 May '16

25 May '16

What do you guys think of the topic below for the next meeting? Personally, I'm just a Linux user, so not really qualified to discuss the topic. However, I'd be still keen to hear about. Cheers, Peter ---------- Forwarded message ---------- This Meetup will be announced to the group if 3 people say they're going. Or you can announce it now. Bruce Gilbert suggested a new Meetup. What: Talk about Linux/Unix philosophy & 'systemd'. When: This Meetup needs a date Where: This Meetup needs a location 'systemd', which has replaced SYSTEMV 'init' in nearly ALL current Linux distributions, seems to go against the fundamental philosophy of Linux/Unix. It has a 'finger-in-all-pies' approach & is, I believe, unnecessarily complex? Click here to check out this Meetup: http://www.meetup.com/WaikatoLinuxUsersGroup/events/231330392/

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Norton Bans kernel.org
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 24 May '16

24 May '16

The screenshot from the original report <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/24/norton_bans_kernel_dot_org/> shows “Computer Threats: 4” from the kernel.org site. Though it seems, since the report, Norton have fixed it to show no threats any more.

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Meetings tonight?
by Chris McClimans 24 May '16

24 May '16

Meetup.com doesn't show anything scheduled

2 1

Supercomputing Is Hard, Reproducibility Is Harder
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 23 May '16

23 May '16

<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/23/the_underbelly_of_simulation_scienc…> Their next step, to make the work easier for other researchers to replicate their results, was a replication study on other packages... That's where things got painful, they write: to get where they expected to get needed “three years of dedicated work that encountered a dozen ways that things can go wrong, conquered one after another, to arrive finally at (approximately) the same findings and a whole new understanding of what it means to do “reproducible research” in computational fluid dynamics.”

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Oracle v. Google draws to a close, jury sent home until next week
by Peter Reutemann 19 May '16

19 May '16

"Presentation of evidence in the Oracle v. Google trial ended today, and US District Judge William Alsup has sent the jury home for a long weekend. On Monday, the jury members will come back to hear closing arguments and begin their deliberations." More information on the trial can be found here: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/oracle-v-google-draws-to-a-close… Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

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Ongoing Collapse In PC Sales
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 18 May '16

18 May '16

PC unit shipments are down by a third on volumes of just a few years ago, while revenues have shrunk even more <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/18/pcmarket2016q1/>. Not sure if that includes tablets: not that it would probably help, nowadays...

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200GB MicroSD for $120nzd
by Chris McClimans 18 May '16

18 May '16

Not bad: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Ultra-200GB-Micro-SDSDQUAN-200G-G4A/dp/B00V62… and they get cheaper as you get smaller, less than half that for 128GB. -chris

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Google Dorking
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 17 May '16

17 May '16

Fun search terms for finding documents that should never have been made public: <http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/05/google-dorking-when-pii-and-exploit…>.

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Raspberry Pi Zero gains camera support, keeps the $5 price
by Peter Reutemann 17 May '16

17 May '16

"When the Raspberry Pi Foundation launched the credit-card sized Zero, it stressed that the DIY computing board would not be as capable as the rest of the Pi family. But if there's one thing we've learned about the Raspberry Pi, it's that there's always room for improvement. Today, the Zero has received its first major hardware upgrade since its hugely successful launch in November: a camera connector. The new addition works very nicely with the two new Sony imaging modules announced last month and the board retains its $5 (£4) price." -- source: http://www.engadget.com/2016/05/16/raspberry-pi-zero-camera-module/ Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

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Open-Source VPU-Side Bootloader For Raspberry π
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 17 May '16

17 May '16

The Raspberry π has been open-source from the beginning in every respect except one: the earliest stages of booting are actually managed by the “VPU” graphics chip, not by the ARM CPU. And the bootloader has been a proprietary firmware blob with no source code available. What made it worse was that the VPU has control over the CPU, not the other way round. Now it looks like that may be changing <http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Raspberry-Pi-Bootloader>.

2 1

Using Intel’s Xeon Phi Under Linux
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 17 May '16

17 May '16

Some researchers at the Czech Technical University in Prague have been using an Intel Xeon Phi co-processor with Gentoo Linux, and have written up their experiences as a guide for others <http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Intel-Xeon-Phi-Gentoo>.

2 1

YubiKey Replaces Open-Source Encryption With Proprietary Version
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 16 May '16

16 May '16

The latest version of the YubiKey no longer uses OpenPGP <https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160515/02094934446/bad-news-two-factor-…>.

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Ubuntu 16.04 proves even an LTS release can live at Linux’s bleeding edge
by Peter Reutemann 16 May '16

16 May '16

'A disappointing trend has become clear to Linux users in recent years. Whenever Canonical offers a new Ubuntu Long Term Support (LTS) release, it tends to be conservative in nature. (See our Ubuntu 14.04 review, which earned a "Missing the boat on big changes" headline.) Apparently no one wants to try to support a brand new, potentially buggy piece of code for half a decade. The last few Ubuntu releases haven't been LTS rollouts, yet Vivid Vervet (15.04) and Wily Werewolf (15.10) also short-changed users in the way of new features. So when Canonical officially released the latest Ubuntu LTS version (Ubuntu 16.04 or Xenial Xerus) this spring, similar expectations loomed. Frankly, this could potentially be the most boring Ubuntu release to date. Thankfully, perception hasn't matched reality this time around for Ubuntu users. Ubuntu 16.04 is in fact the most exciting release Canonical has put out in recent memory. And after using it for the last few weeks, this may even be the best release Canonical has presented to date.' -- source: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/ubuntu-16-04-proves-e… Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

1 1

Raspbian Linux OS Gets Major Update, Adds Bluetooth Support to Pi 3
by Peter Reutemann 14 May '16

14 May '16

"The Raspberry Pi 3 was launched with built-in chip for Bluetooth and Wi-Fi support, however, software support for Bluetooth was lacking until now. The drivers were there, but today's update to the Raspbian Linux distribution adds much-needed GUI tools to help you establish Bluetooth connections. Another cool addition is a new backup tool. There are other improvements as well including the mouse settings, and the ability to empty the wastebasket through right-clicking as seen below (yes, seriously). There is even a new shutdown dialog, something even casual users should notice." -- source: https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/16/05/13/1740218 Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

4 6

Heart Surgery Stalled For Five Minutes Thanks To Errant Anti-Virus Scan
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 13 May '16

13 May '16

<https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160506/07161334360/heart-surgery-stalle…> "...the antivirus froze access to crucial data acquired during the heart catheterization. Unable to access real-time data, the app crashed spectacularly."

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Could someone help with setting up a computer with linux
by Michelle 13 May '16

13 May '16

Hi, My name's Michelle. I've been using Linux on and off for the last few years. If this has not been sent to your LUG mailing list (if you have one) could you please send it to that or to all the people in your LUG please? I'm looking for someone who would help me set up a computer with linux on it. I had a Dell on which I set up Puppy with no problem whatsoever. The computer died and so then I took the puppy distro and the other disto I'd bought (can't remember what) and tried to install them on 2 older computers I had but it didn't work. I don't know why, maybe it was because one of the distros was on a stick and not compatible or maybe both computer hard drives were stuffed? After that I bought a mini-pc (I think it was supposed to run linux) but it didn't work at all. Then I bought a tablet but after a month or two it stopped working or pretty much? Stopped working. So I just used a phone for about a year and last year bought a brand new Toshiba laptop. The problem with this was two fold: 1. It was a laptop. 2. It was a Toshiba (oh how I hate Toshiba) I had known that not all computers were readily compatible with linux but after my easy experience with the Dell I wasn't too concerned. I bought two linux distros on different media and hoped/assumed? that something would work – it didn't. I bought another say 2 or 3 distros and managed to get the Mint to install on this Toshiba. It wasn't until after this annoying endeavor that I found out online that: - laptops are less compatible than desktops with linux and that - Toshiba out of the maybe top 6 or 8 computer manufacturers is consistantly about the least compatible with linux ( I HATE TOSHIBA) I don't happen to have a few spear thousand dollars sitting around to enable me to buy a computer and try and set it up with the distros I want, find it dosen't work, buy another computer, find it doesn't work, buy another and finally find one that works with the distros I want. So I am sending this message to basically all the Linux users groups in NZ and hoping someone can help me set up a computer with the two linux distros I want. I don't know how that would work. Maybe someone is about to buy a new computer and can try these distros before they put theirs on, maybe someone has a partition on their computer that is spare and can try it there, maybe they own a computer shop or work in a computer shop or at a university or polytech with computers or computer parts around. So for anyone who may be willing to help me here is what I would like: - a desktop (not the modern ones that are a computer plus other thing/s but just a computer - not a toshiba - Whonix to run on top of Qubes. Whonix is great for anonimity and Qubes is designed for security/safety. - I have a DrayTek vigor 120 modem. I connect it via DSL. When looking into whonix I read that it is complex to configure and setup, so I was hoping that you might have such a modem or access to one and set it up with whonix and then tell me how you did it. - I don't want the computer to come with wifi or bluetooth or any similar thing. I don't want it just not running, I don't want it there at all. - I'm wanting to install 3 old encyclopedias. I was reading about the new versions online and people were recommending old ones. I've bought Encarta 2004, 2001 and Encyclopaedia Britannica '98. To run them on I've bought Windows 98 second edition and Windows NT (first edition?). If you have or could borrow these windows OS could you see if you could get them running in whonix or qubes? - One or both of the encyclopedias need 2 DVD players so I'd like at least 2 DVD players with one being a recorder. - I'm not looking for a high end computer. As long as it will play youtube, that's fast enough. BUT I would appreciate hearing any recommendation about if I just add such and such for $100 or $150 it would go much faster. I'd like 500GB hard drive at least and I've been recommended to get 8GB RAM at least. I wouldn't buy the computer off you but rather if you could tell me what computer/computer parts worked, I'd pay up to $150 for the info. If 10 different people told me what worked of course I couldn't pay 10 different people $150. I am sending this to: the wlug, Glen Ogilvie at nelg(a)linuxsolutions.co.nz in Auckland, the Welly LUG through hugh(a)davenport.net.nz, nzlug(a)lists.nzoss.org.nz and Wellington LUG through jethro.carr(a)jethrocarr.com. If you know of any active LUG that I have missed or anyone else that might be willing to assist me could you please pass this onto them? My email is michelle400(a)orcon.net.nz. If this is posted to a mailing list (I've never used one before) and I don't reply in a week could you get back to me on my email? Thank you to anyone willing to help Michelle Gorringe.

3 3

BitKeeper Becomes Open-Source
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 10 May '16

10 May '16

BitKeeper was the distributed version-control system that Linus Torvalds and the other kernel developers were using over a decade ago. It was a proprietary product, but the Linux folk were allowed use of it for no charge, under a licence that prohibited reverse-engineering, and that obligated them to uprade to newer versions with whatever new licence terms the company wanted to impose. It was a stoush over this reverse-engineering prohibition that led to BitMover giving notice it was cancelling this agreement, which in turn led to Torvalds creating Git. And the rest, as they say, is history. <http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=BitKeeper-Open-Source>

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Debian Dropping Support For Older CPUs
by Peter Reutemann 09 May '16

09 May '16

'The Debian project supports a wide range of hardware architectures, including 32-bit x86 CPUs. Changes are happening in Debian's development branches which will make older versions of the 32-bit architecture obsolete. Ben Hutchings provides the details: "Last year it was decided to increase the minimum CPU features for the i386 architecture to 686-class in the Stretch release cycle. This means dropping support for 586-class and hybrid 586/686 processors. (Support for 486-class processors was dropped, somewhat accidentally, in Squeeze.) This was implemented in the Linux kernel packages starting with Linux 4.3, which was uploaded to Unstable in December last year. In case you missed that change, GCC for i386 has recently been changed to target 686-class processors and is generating code that will crash on other processors. Any such systems still running Testing or Unstable will need to be switched to run Stable (Jessie)."' -- source: https://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/05/09/028259 Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

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Leading-Edge Technology ... Or Not
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 07 May '16

07 May '16

To service the McLaren F1 supercar, McLaren needs a Compaq LTE 5280 laptop which hasn’t been manufactured in about 20 years <http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/3/11576032/mclaren-f1-compaq-laptop-maintena…>. The laptop has a special CA (“Conditional-Access”) card, and "The CA card is an interface between the laptop software (which is DOS-based) and the car." .. the CA card was used as custom hardware as part of an integrated system for security and copy protection. In other words, this is part of a system to ensure that nobody but McLaren can access the car software. Their attempt at vendor lock-in has led to vendor lock-in being imposed on them.

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embedded projects
by rowan schischka 06 May '16

06 May '16

there is about five weeks of lectures left at uni so looking to get some things together now due to international shipping delays. does anyone want to share shipping costs on an intel curie? http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/do-it-yourself/arduino-101.html I would also appreciate some buying advice. there are a number of retailers but the cheapest one only sells instore in north america. I also need to purchase a small suitable rechargeable battery. also where is the maker scene at waikato? -- Rowan Schischka

3 2

UK Spooks Say: Don’t Keep Resetting Your Passwords!?
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 06 May '16

06 May '16

On World Password Day (who knew?), the Communications-Electronics Security Group (CESG), part of GCHQ, is telling sysadmins not to force their users to keep resetting their passwords <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/05/stop_resetting_your_password_says_u…>. The result, according to CESG, is that we are more likely to write our password down. Or forget the password altogether, forcing service desks to reset them, chewing up time and resources. So what was wrong with writing them down, again? You know how to keep your cash, credit cards and house keys safe; why can’t you keep your written passwords in the same place? The last three paragraphs of the article are, um, worth reading carefully...

2 1

Microsoft unveils new effort to make its documentation great again ... or does it?
by rowan schischka 06 May '16

06 May '16

>Just one problem: while Microsoft itself uses the term ?open sourced? I think you will find that Microsoft will make its own definition of the word 'open'. for example for years they have been calling their bulk license purchasing plan the 'Open License' (OLP, OLV, OVS, etc). Their Open is not GPL. They want hobbyists and students to tinker with their products and if you're not making money they wont bother you. for example they give charities and schools dirt cheap pricing because they just want everyone to use their products. Their bottom line is; if you make money off our product we want our cut of that to return to our investors.

3 2

TLS Proxies: Insecure By Design
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 06 May '16

06 May '16

A “TLS Proxy” short-circuits the security of TLS/SSL connections so it can do deep-packet inspection on encrypted connections. This kind of thing always seemed dodgy. And now it turns out that is so for good reason: these devices are full of holes <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/05/tls_proxies_are_insecure/>. The paper mentioned there concentrated on consumer/retail devices. But it’s unlikely ones designed for business/enterprise use are going to fare any better...

1 0

Unity 8 And Snaps Are Conquering The Ubuntu Desktop After Ubuntu 16.10
by Peter Reutemann 05 May '16

05 May '16

"Today is the last day of the Ubuntu Online Summit 2016, and the Ubuntu developers discussed the future of the Ubuntu Desktop for Ubuntu 16.10 (Yakkety Yak) and beyond. It looks like Snaps (Snappy) and Unity 8 with Mir are slowly conquering the Ubuntu Desktop, at least according to Canonical's Will Cooke, Ubuntu Desktop Manager. Work has already begun on pushing these new and modern technologies to the Ubuntu Desktop, as Ubuntu 16.04 LTS has just received support for installing Snaps from the Ubuntu Snappy Store. Canonical's Will Cooke has mentioned the fact that the Unity 7 desktop enters its twilight years, which means that it gets fewer features and it's being reduced to only critical and OEM work. This is because Unity 8 desktop is getting all the attention now, and it will become the default desktop session somewhere after Ubuntu 16.10 (Yakkety Yak)." -- source: https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/05/05/2038256 Cheers, Peter -- Peter Reutemann Dept. of Computer Science University of Waikato, NZ +64 (7) 858-5174 http://www.cms.waikato.ac.nz/~fracpete/ http://www.data-mining.co.nz/

1 0

Microsoft unveils new effort to make its documentation great again ... or does it?
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 05 May '16

05 May '16

<http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/microsoft-unveils-new…>: Some teams within Microsoft, such as those developing ASP.NET and .NET Core, had already open sourced their documentation. On the new site, all documentation will be handled similarly. Every article will have an "edit" button enabling changes and fixes to be proposed. These changes will be handled as pull requests on GitHub, with the documentation itself using the popular Markdown markup language. Just one problem: while Microsoft itself uses the term “open sourced” <https://docs.microsoft.com/teamblog/introducing-docs-microsoft-com/>: All documentation on docs.microsoft.com is open sourced and designed to allow community contributions. Nowhere does it actually spell out what the copyright licence is. Clicking on the “Terms of Use” link takes you here <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/intellectualproperty/copyright/defaul…>, where it says Personal and Non-Commercial Use Limitation Unless otherwise specified, the Services are for your personal and non-commercial use. You may not modify, copy, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any information, software, products or services obtained from the Services.

1 0

Proprietary Software Riddled With Old Open-Source Vulnerabilities
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 04 May '16

04 May '16

No big news, really: closed-source software, even if it is built on open-source components, will inevitably accumulate long-standing bugs that never get fixed. And sometimes the bugs have security implications. This report from Black Duck uses the term “commercial” software, but it’s quite clear they mean “proprietary” software, i.e. closed-source <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/04/commercial_software_chokkas_with_an…>. The telling phrase in the report is “visibility into the components that are included in their code base is required”. How would you *not* have such visibility, if the source of your product is open? A lot of companies may hate copyleft licences, but at least they force a level of transparency that makes this kind of thing much harder to cover up.

1 0

Hard Drive Warranties Are Now Specifying Data-Write Limits?
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 04 May '16

04 May '16

It used to be that warranties for hard drives were for some specified number of years, it didn’t matter how much load they were under (compare SSDs). But it seems that is now changing, as capacities are pushed to the point where ever more creative strategies are needed to get the devices to work at all <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/03/when_did_hard_drives_get_workload_r…>.

3 2

The Tao Of Programming
by Lawrence D'Oliveiro 04 May '16

04 May '16

<http://www.mit.edu/~xela/tao.html>: 4.3 The Master was explaining the nature of Tao to one of his novices. "The Tao is embodied in all software -- regardless of how insignificant," said the Master. "Is the Tao in a hand-held calculator?" asked the novice. "It is," came the reply. "Is the Tao in a video game?" asked the novice. "It is even in a video game," said the Master. "Is the Tao in the DOS for a personal computer?" asked the novice. The Master coughed and shifted his position slightly. "The lesson is over for today," he said.

1 0