- wlug - list.wlug.org.nz

Suse Live CD
by Oliver Jones 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

Howdy Guys I've always wanted to have a look at SuSE but don't have too much time to frig around installing it etc so the Live CD version looks like the ideal plaything. Anyone got a copy of this? I'd rather not give Telecom more money than it deserves and on business ADSL they really ask us to bend over. So if someone is willing to send me a copy I would be most appreciative. Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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FW: [wlug] Linux Distro comments
by Chris Day 20 Jul '04

20 Jul '04

I'm working on over 30 new products on for the retail channel. We are just working on a RealTek Gigabit PCI NIC. Plugged it into a box with FC2 loaded and spent another 15~20 min getting FC2 to work with the card. Its a multiboot desktop - so tried MDK 10 & MDK 9.2 - they both detected the card and autoconfigured it. My point is not how we went about it or other technical things to do with various distro's. We look at things from a consumers point of view - have to, we get the calls when it doesn't work. Mandrake will, 8 times out of 10, work with many of the products that just should work with Linux. Actually, Knoppix is pretty good also - between the 2 of them, we can generally get most of the tings that should work, to go. To put it another way, if I have to spend the companies money on development in getting a device going with a distro, I'll chose the latest edition of Mandrake knowing that we will also be able to get it working with Knoppix once we have nailed MDK. My 2c Regards, Chris...

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FW: MYOB Accounting Package Registration
by lindsay 20 Jul '04

20 Jul '04

Come on gang... Surely there's someone else who uses MYOB... Let's make the market big enough to justify a Linux release... -----Original Message----- From: Jamie_Macintosh(a)myob.co.nz [mailto:Jamie_Macintosh(a)myob.co.nz] On Behalf Of sales(a)myob.co.nz Sent: Monday, 19 July 2004 15:26 To: Lindsay Druett Subject: Re: MYOB Accounting Package Registration Hi Lindsay As fare as I'm aware there are no plans to make the product work on a linux based system, Unfortunately there is just not a big enough market to justify a linux release. Thank you, Kind regards, MYOB Sales Advice Phone: 0800 60 69 62 Fax: 0800 94 96 96 Email: sales(a)myob.co.nz http://www.myob.co.nz Lindsay Druett <lindsay(a)wired.net.nz> 16/07/2004 09:36 p.m. To: sales(a)myob.co.nz cc: Subject: Re: MYOB Accounting Package Registration Another question... Is there any plans to develop MYOB so that it runs on a Linux platform (using X-Windows such as KDE, Gnome, etc) as well as Microsoft Windows ? sales(a)myob.co.nz wrote: > > Dear Lindsay > > Thanks for your email, > > We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we are working on the > website issues regarding registrations, I however will forward this on > to the appropriate persons. > > Thank you for your insite, > > Kind regards, > MYOB Sales Advice > Phone: 0800 60 69 62 > Fax: 0800 94 96 96 > Email: sales(a)myob.co.nz > http://www.myob.co.nz > > > > > >

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Re: Re: [Fwd: [wlug] Yoper V2 final released]
by Stephen Pearce 19 Jul '04

19 Jul '04

Sorry to bother you again, Could I send my Hamilton mate around to you to pick up that modem and the Yoper cd please .. if so .. what phone number and/or address shall I give him? Thanks Stephen > > From: Gavin Denby <redhat(a)ihug.co.nz> > Date: 2004/07/15 Thu PM 10:01:46 GMT+12:00 > To: pearce(a)ieee.org, > Waikato Linux Users Group <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Subject: Re: [Fwd: [wlug] Yoper V2 final released] > > Pulling it now from the nz website > > should be here in a couple of hours. > > I'll be onsite at dse in hamilton on sunday 10-4. if you wanted to pick > it up. saves postage > > > > Stephen Pearce wrote: > > Has anyone downloaded this to cd .. > > I recently tried to down load from the nz web site > > but was unsuccessful .. possibly due to internal > > problems from the site I was trying to dl from .. > > is there anyone who would make me a copy .. I pay/ > > refund media and postage costs > > tnx > > Stephen > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

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RE: [wlug] DSE powerhouse - Read the Book, Saw the Movie, Got theT-Shirt
by Gund Wehsling 19 Jul '04

19 Jul '04

Hi For home users who are not LINUX friendly or technical, I would like to highly recommend SUSE 9.1 Personal. Single CD install, detects all my 'funny' hardware at home, no complicated install Q's, has simple desktop with a browser, mail client, OOo. Can be mistaken for XP by the untrained eye. My apologies if this has been covered before, I am new to this list. It is a free download from www.novell.com. Just my 0.02c -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] Sent: Monday, 19 July 2004 1:13 p.m. To: Waikato Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [wlug] DSE powerhouse - Read the Book, Saw the Movie, Got theT-Shirt Update to my last. I popped into DSE today to sort out some final bits, and on the way home called in to the PC company, they are selling off a lot of old stock and new machines, bit all are OS free, Apparently, many people object to paying the $150.00 tax to Microsoft when all they want to do surf the net,e-mail and type the odd letter. Many are asking about linux, we discussed the usual modem issues, but as they can get and sell some cheep serial modem to overcome this I think there may be plan developing. Anyway I am dropping off some copies of the WLUG brochure, and taking some distros in, and we will look at the possibility of me preloading some machines for them. I am thinking Knoppix for testing devices, mandrake for new users (lots of software) I wonder about fedora, and maybe Xandros community as these will show up at lug meetings looking for a ... how do I .... ??? I also would consider Yoper/CollegeLinux /Debian .. in fact anything that will work as long as the support is there either from the wider community or the LUG, but I suspect many people will want to bring these to a lug meeting, rather than use a forum, at least at the beginning. I know we just did an installfest, so what was the experience, and what would be a good distro for a new user, if the Lug is to offer support. Its the last part ... Helping the new user, that is of most concern. I pushed WLUG as an issue, since there will be a learning curve. I would appreciate helpful comments here, but the tide is turning, and people are looking for a Linux for their home PC. Its time to see if We are ready to step up to the Plate. This is not an excuse for a distro war, rather a chance to say what we can help new users with. Gavin Denby wrote: > May I offer my hearty congratulations to all those who both helped out > and those who popped in and said hi, hundreds of Open Office CD's as > well as Knoppix /morphix CD's were given away, Many people had a first > look at open source, and Hundreds of WLUG brochures were taken by > interested people. > > _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Re: [wlug] Linux Distro comments
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 19 Jul '04

19 Jul '04

I made the micro$ comment in ignorance. My apologies. Regards John ----- Original Message Follows ----- > * Greig McGill <greig(a)hamiltron.net> [2004-07-19 12:34]: > > Please quit with the "MickeySoft" and micro$oft. > > We are a group who lists advocacy as one of its goals. > > Good advocates do not descend to name calling. > > Thank you for saying it.

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Re: [wlug] DSE powerhouse - Read the Book, Saw the Movie, Got the T-Shirt
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 19 Jul '04

19 Jul '04

Hi All, Might as well add my own views. The first Linux I started was Mandrake 9.2 It nearly installed properly on the fourth install (due to user incompetence) I liked what The programme did but found it difficult to find information that I could relate to when I needed to install or amend some thing. Shortly after I went to the install fest and installed the fedora core 1 system. This was frought with problems even the people at the meeting were not able to resolve all the issues so I waited for Fedora core 2 Which is now installed. I think that if I was not so determined to eventually figure this out (even if I do have to nag you guys to death :)) I would have returned to the micro$ fold by now. However I am still dual booting windows/fedora The problem I see is that of dumbing down linux will attract even more dopey sods like myself So you need to be able to have a simple programme that can be supported by most of you... ----- Original Message Follows ----- > Jonathan Purvis wrote: > > > I'd recommend against new users running Debian (dispite > > my running in at work and home) for the following > reasons: > > > * Unstable is unstable[1] and stable is very out of > date at the moment > > > * X configuration is horrible/non-existant > > * If you forget to load the module for your network > > card early on in the installer, it won't ask you for > > network configuration and you'll have to spend half an > > hour hunting down the required configuration files * > dselect lets you remove dpkg > > I'd tend to agree with these points, I personally run > debian and and had forgotten these things as stuff long > gone but from a new user these are quite possibly > relative points. > > That being said some of these points may not be such an > issue on a pre-installed machine > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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DSE powerhouse - A huge thank you to all
by Chris Day 19 Jul '04

19 Jul '04

On behalf of DSE(NZ)Ltd, I wish to express our appreciation to those who participated in the recent DSE Powerhouse weekend. Our goal was to provide consumers (and staff) with an overview of what GNU/OpenSource is all about. Despite the lack of forward advise and some planning on our part, I believe this was a job well done by the participants and all those others who offered online support & advise - it is really great to see such enthusiasm. From our perspective, the demand for software like GNU/Linux & OpenOffice is building steadily and it really is great to see community involvement like this. We wish you all the best in your future endeavors and are here to offer assistance where we can. Kind regards, Chris Day Senior Buyer DSE(NZ)Ltd

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Speed Comparison between 23 distros
by Andreas Girardet 17 Jul '04

17 Jul '04

Hello fellow NZLinuxers Here a post of the results of the comparison between 23 distros on speed and many more categories. http://www.yoper.com/forum2/index.php?showtopic=953 Here a little ranking http://www.yoper.com/comparison/desktopcomparison.html Hope you'll enjoy it. Cheers Andreas

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Re: DSE Powerhouse this weekend.
by Gavin Denby 16 Jul '04

16 Jul '04

For those helping at the powerhouse, and those who will be popping in to save some money or just chat. For those that gave me shirt sizes, I have some good news. Barring a major catastrophe, we will have some shirts tomorrow, In spite of the limited time, My wife has made a very neat Embroidered Silver, Black and Yellow/Orange Tux and beneath that the letters WLUG in large friendly black cotton. She would have liked more time to improve the stitching, but it works anyway IMHO. The shirt is a polo (collared) Grey in colour and should go with anything you wear. (also it was the only suitable shirt the warehouse had, and I'm cheep, so sue me. For those that didn't give me a size we have one large and one medium size extra, But there are only 5 shirts in total, so If you missed the roster, you missed the boat I have a darker Grey shirt with the same stitching, so we should make it. and look darn close to a team. I'm sure DSE will have a place for us to change shirts. I'll drop off a box tomorrow AM, first thing, so we can have them on site. ... And one last thing, can we have camera's there too, this should definitely be posted to the wiki and there should be some nice photos of Lug members working with the public. See you all over the next 2 days. .. SO GET SOME REST !!! John R. McPherson wrote: >On Fri, Jul 16, 2004 at 06:00:16PM +1200, Daniel Lawson wrote: > > >>So, here's the current roster, as I have it >> >> >> >>>Daniel Sat 10 - 1 >>>Matt Sat 12 - 4 >>>Perry Sat 11 - 4 >>>Gavin Sun 10 - 4 >>>John sometime on Sunday ? >>>Bruce Sun 12 - 4 >>> >>> > >Ok, in that case I'll go down on Sunday just before 10 to keep Gavin >company :) I'll stay until it's not busy, or Gavin and Bruce get >sick of me. > > > >>DSE have printed off ~400 or 800 copies of the attached doc. >> >> > >heh, that sounds like a lot! Oh well... > >John > >

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[Fwd: [wlug] Yoper V2 final released]
by Stephen Pearce 15 Jul '04

15 Jul '04

Has anyone downloaded this to cd .. I recently tried to down load from the nz web site but was unsuccessful .. possibly due to internal problems from the site I was trying to dl from .. is there anyone who would make me a copy .. I pay/ refund media and postage costs tnx Stephen

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FW: [NZOSS-OpenChat] WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Ross Hamblin 15 Jul '04

15 Jul '04

Further to my message below, we are trying to get an idea of numbers who will be assisting, is it possible to get a list of those intending to attend over the weekend? Alternatively, could those who will be attending mail me off-list and advise which days and times you are planning to be there, and whether you are from WLUG or NZOSS. Thanks, Ross. -----Original Message----- From: Ross Hamblin Sent: Friday, 9 July 2004 16:03 To: openchat(a)nzoss.org.nz; wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: [NZOSS-OpenChat] WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend Thanks to all who offered to attend and assist with this. For those who asked about timetables, we would like to have people present to offer advise and demonstrate OSS/Linux between 10am and 4pm on Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th July. As it is difficult to make extra space, we will need to use the computers on display in the store which will mean using Knoppix or similar distro which runs from CD. We will be giving away free Open Office.org and Knoppix CDs to customers who attend. We will be advertising this event in the newspaper and it would be good to include your logos if possible, please advise on this or send to me off-list. We also have facilities to photocopy A4 DLE type brochures if you provide me with a PDF or OO.o doc of your brochure we can produce them for you. Regards, Ross. Ross Hamblin DSE (NZ) Ltd. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: openchat-unsubscribe(a)nzoss.org.nz For additional commands, e-mail: openchat-help(a)nzoss.org.nz

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Help with BIOS geometry
by John 14 Jul '04

14 Jul '04

I have loaded a dual boot up system several times, but I recently had my motherboard and harddrive replaced and this time the installation program came up with "unable to align partition correctly, this probably m,eans that another partition tool generated an incorrect partition table because it didnt have the correct BIOS geometry. It is safe to ignor, but ignoring may cause (fixable) problems with some boot loaders" Bloody hell, I "ignored and ended up not being able to boot the computer at all. It did not recognise the c-drive I have since reloaded windows from scratch (my linux partition is on a separate hard drive - but I cannot access it). How can I fix this problem with my BIOS? THanks John

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DSE store this weekend
by Gavin Denby 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

In the absence of any replies to my prior offers, I need to know if there is a list of who is one when at DSE, or if any of us are needed at all I must decide by 4pm if I am free to take paid work this Saturday. I offered to help at DSE if required first, and will stand by that if so asked, but at 4pm my offer turns into Cinderellas pumpkin. do you have all the help you need, or have I missed some mail here. DO you want my help with this or are you ok ?? I need to respond to the AK team by 4pm today, so if a committee member handling this could comment it would really help.

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by David Nicholls 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

"WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend ...between 10am and 4pm on Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th July... ...giving away free Open Office.org and Knoppix CDs to customers who attend. We will be advertising this event in the newspaper and it would be good to include your logos if possible..." We are sending in the troups to help out :) Cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Gund Wehsling [mailto:Gund.Wehsling(a)computerland.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 14 July 2004 11:12 am Hi A quick Q from a newbie to your board. I did look elsewhere and found no info. What is happening at DSE this weekend, relative to this list, in 25 words or less ;-) Thanks Gund

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by Gund Wehsling 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

Hi A quick Q from a newbie to your board. I did look elsewhere and found no info. What is happening at DSE this weekend, relative to this list, in 25 words or less ;-) Thanks Gund -----Original Message----- From: David Nicholls [mailto:davidn(a)waikato.ac.nz] Sent: Wed 14/07/2004 09:11 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend No, in fact I took a look at the links to the products posted in an email ealier and everything is the latest version... Hot off the web it seems. Go take a look as the cds not only come with oo but mozilla and a number of other products (from what I can see all good basic needs products). Check them out. Cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 13 July 2004 8:54 pm Sounds like they can get a free one this Saturday , even though i suspect it will be ver 1.1.1 , if they use it its enough for a start. _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by David Nicholls 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

No, in fact I took a look at the links to the products posted in an email ealier and everything is the latest version... Hot off the web it seems. Go take a look as the cds not only come with oo but mozilla and a number of other products (from what I can see all good basic needs products). Check them out. Cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 13 July 2004 8:54 pm Sounds like they can get a free one this Saturday , even though i suspect it will be ver 1.1.1 , if they use it its enough for a start.

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Proxy Authentication
by Terry Cole 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

We have just set up at school a Suse 9 Linux server. Apache 2, Squid 2.5. We are trying to get Proxy Authentication via Squid working and are having problems. We have created our ACL's, etc. We have a password file and have tried Pam and NCSA. The prompt appears asking for user and password but does not accept what we put in. I think it might not be talking to the password file. Any ideas on where and what we could check? Thanks Terry Cole Rotorua, New Zealand mailto:terry(a)cole.gen.nz http://www.cole.gen.nz http://www.websnz.com

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by Lindsay Druett 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

But then again, just think of all that extra hardware you can sell. More memory... A DVD writer instead of a CD writer... Hey, instead of Office Pro 2003 Open Bus (XS 9011), why not buy a second computer ? > -----Original Message----- > From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, 13 July 2004 15:16 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] DSE store this weekend > > > Sorry Chris > > Its official, You wont be making much money on sales of > Office XP this > weekend :-) >

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by Chris Day 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

>> Sorry Chris >> Its official, You wont be making much money on sales of Office XP this >> weekend :-) >> Hopefully the hardware sales will make up for it :-) :-)

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by Chris Day 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

>From DSE's perspective, the event is still definitely on and the last I heard WLUG was keen to be present. Members of NZOSS will also be present. At DSE, Ross Hamblin and I have been coordinating stuff - in summary this Sat / Sun - 10am ~4pm. PC's will be present for you to load stuff on & were giving away OS CD's - see NZLUG or NZOSS lists for more details. Regards, Chris.. -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:06 PM To: Waikato Linux Users Group Subject: [wlug] DSE store this weekend In the absence of any replies to my prior offers, I need to know if there is a list of who is one when at DSE, or if any of us are needed at all I must decide by 4pm if I am free to take paid work this Saturday. I offered to help at DSE if required first, and will stand by that if so asked, but at 4pm my offer turns into Cinderellas pumpkin. do you have all the help you need, or have I missed some mail here. DO you want my help with this or are you ok ?? I need to respond to the AK team by 4pm today, so if a committee member handling this could comment it would really help. _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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kppp, wlan, phone modem and ? iptables
by Stephen Pearce 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

Hi And Help! Thanks for the advise re using ssh -X to run X11 remotely over a wlan. I would now like to activate the phone modem on the remote X11 server and then web browse from the laptop using the wlan. There must be some packet filtering occuring as I can log on to my isp whilist sitting at the server and ping external ip addresses and alos local (192.168.0.x addresses) i.e. local requests are somehow being caught and not forwarded over the ppp link to the isp but diverted into the lan. However if I ssh -X to the server from the laptop via the wlan then run kppp and dial the isp the connection goes thru but there must be some protocol problem as the link then collapses saying it cannot find ppp0. I presume this is all to do with packet filtering iptables and maybe ipchains .. an arcane area I do not fully understand and have yet to find a definitive howto which address the area in a way useful to my problem. I would appreciate any directions toward useful help.. Many thanks Stephen ps mozilla runs ok over the link but of course cannot access any links

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Re: Any Hints or Advice?
by David7 10 Jul '04

10 Jul '04

My thanks to all who responded. David wrote a few days ago >> I have just gone over, or come over, to Unix >> - Mandrake 10.0 they call it. It feels great. >> Are there any hints or advice for a new guy? Ari P > Learn to read documentation, including how to find it. > Not much more to answer to such a broadly stated question. D (If I were to read the documentation, I might actually get educated.) It is good advice. Unix is somewhere between an education and a way of thinking (or life), it seems. I have no specific question at present but I am going to have. My hometown was placed in the broadband zone recently, so soon I intend to move over to jetstream. I have applied to my ISP for it, and the hardware is going to be installed in my computer next week. When I do move over I just know there will be qs I can't handle. Also, accessing the web via a computer prog, preferably in Pascal rather than C, is something coming up. I don't know Perl nor Java, nor the jargon of this technique, nor where the problem overlaps Unix and wlug, nor even if it is possible in Pascal, But I won't ask these qs yet. FH > Using Linux fulltime only since last September (Gentoo), I know in a > way what you mean. I'd suggest to latch on to a very active Mandrake > forum which has a good searchable archive. D I haven't started looking for an MDK forum but it is something to do. GD > If you an get into Hamilton on a Monday night, > get along to the lug meetings. [snip] > you will build good friendships and strong networks. > Linux is more community than OS IMHO ..... And the OS really rocks. D My car is presently unreliable, but person to person contact is what I want. I want to go. The OS gives the impression of steady and stable. Several times I have had the computer on for ten hours, and it never got slower (like the old OS did) and it never froze. It is really a good feeling. LD > I strongly agree with Gavin. > Sounds like you have had a good start anyway. Not many people have > come to me saying "I have just installed (whatever) Linux on my machine > and it feels great", a lot of people have said, "I tried to get Linux > working on my machine, but I couldn't get it to work...", and a lot of > those people were IT professionals - they have got sucked in too deep > into the dark side. D I deliberately waited for Mandrake 10.0 (Official), and waited a bit more. It probably paid off. If I didn't have the specifc purpose of downloading, de-tarring, and installing a Pascal compiler, and using it to compile a prog, then I wouldn't have had an initial success and the good feeling. I suppose it is similar to the trick some people use when learning a second spoken language, say Spanish: They read a well-known English-language story or poem in Spanish. Getting the compiler up and running was a struggle but now that I have that feather in my cap, the rest should be easier and more relaxed. Bascially, I have my nice little computer back. LD > Yep, there is a steep learning curve ahead, but it's really worth it. > Open Source Software has done a lot for me than any variant of MS > Windows will ever do. D That inspires me to keep with it. LD > I'm not anti-Microsoft - but the more you get into Linux, > the more you realise why other people think Windows Sux, > furthermore you are siding them with those views. D What gets me is the gaul (sp) or the chutzpah (sp) of the co-founder of ¬. He sold something he didn't own, and that didn't really exist, to people who shouldn't have bought it. And if they had only waited a bit, none of this thingamjig would have happened. DB > Learn to search Google for your problems (unless you have paid > your $20 to be a member, then you can bug them on #wlug ;) D Google sure is an amazing library. I have used it alot for research into old texts and historical events (I write historical fiction in my spare time). I haven't paid $20. If I prove unable to get my jetstream running, and they do, it will be worth $20. GW > So, have you found yourself Pascal compilers yet? D Yes indeed. I used to use the one available on freepascal.org (and .com) so when I switched to Unix I simply went back to the same well. I had to log on as root ('su') then I could instal. I reckon 'tar' should be called 'dar', for disk archive, rather than tape archive. The Vim editor and the KWrite editor are both much better than what I am used to. And the shell (Konsole) or Terminal Program they call it, is so versatile. It didn't take me long to discover 'ls' instead of 'dir', and './' before the assembled and linked file; and forward slash instad of '#' (oh well, my keyboard doesn't want to give it). PL > We try hard to put any advice or hints into the wlug wiki. > http://www.wlug.org.nz/ > If you find some piece of information you found difficult to find, > please put it somewhere in the wiki. D This resource is very handy to know about. My thanks again to all who responded to my query. David C in Huntly, NZ, amateur Pascal progger, digest member.

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WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Ross Hamblin 10 Jul '04

10 Jul '04

Thanks to all who offered to attend and assist with this. For those who asked about timetables, we would like to have people present to offer advise and demonstrate OSS/Linux between 10am and 4pm on Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th July. As it is difficult to make extra space, we will need to use the computers on display in the store which will mean using Knoppix or similar distro which runs from CD. We will be giving away free Open Office.org and Knoppix CDs to customers who attend. We will be advertising this event in the newspaper and it would be good to include your logos if possible, please advise on this or send to me off-list. We also have facilities to photocopy A4 DLE type brochures if you provide me with a PDF or OO.o doc of your brochure we can produce them for you. Regards, Ross. Ross Hamblin DSE (NZ) Ltd.

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vnc over wireless router
by Stephen Pearce 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

Help ... I'm trying to run vncviewer on a laptop running Fedora 2 speaking to a redhat 9 server via a 802.11b wireless router .. the server connects to the router via a utp ethernet link .. the laptop via its own internal 802.11b card ..(Truemobile 1400 using ndiswrapper) .. I can ftp and telnet no problems .. I have enables vncserver on the server ... however I keep getting a connect error 111 when I try to use vncviewer to access the server ... any suggestions?/alternatives for remote access to the server X11 desktop? Thanks Stephen

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RE: [NZOSS-OpenChat] WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Chris Day 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

Further to Ross's note, a few comments: - Radio & Press will be advertising NSOSS / WLUG involvement - We will be giving away XC4031 OpenOffice.org CD http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/en/product/XC4031 or XC4034 Knoppix/Morphix Linux Dual CD Set http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/en/product/XC4034 - Linux can be installed on display Desktops or Notebooks as long as they are recovered with MFR restore CD's at the end of the weekend - just zap the boot record and our guys can do the recovery. - Other suppliers will be at this very public event so I a way, we are all on show. Bear in mind DSE's goal in supporting OpenSource is to provide consumers with a choice. We have no preference and will not be influenced when it comes to meeting customer demand. - There are some hot deals on offer so be prepared for allot of customers - be prepared for group demonstrations. - We also need to consider OSH implications so demonstrators will need to sign in. Can't think of anything else at this point - have a fantastic weekend, I'm off to try out Linux nVidia drivers... -----Original Message----- From: Ross Hamblin Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 4:03 PM To: openchat(a)nzoss.org.nz; wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: [NZOSS-OpenChat] WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend Thanks to all who offered to attend and assist with this. For those who asked about timetables, we would like to have people present to offer advise and demonstrate OSS/Linux between 10am and 4pm on Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th July. As it is difficult to make extra space, we will need to use the computers on display in the store which will mean using Knoppix or similar distro which runs from CD. We will be giving away free Open Office.org and Knoppix CDs to customers who attend. We will be advertising this event in the newspaper and it would be good to include your logos if possible, please advise on this or send to me off-list. We also have facilities to photocopy A4 DLE type brochures if you provide me with a PDF or OO.o doc of your brochure we can produce them for you. Regards, Ross. Ross Hamblin DSE (NZ) Ltd. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: openchat-unsubscribe(a)nzoss.org.nz For additional commands, e-mail: openchat-help(a)nzoss.org.nz

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Any Hints or Advice?
by David7 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Hello I have just gone over, or come over, to Unix - Mandrake 10.0 they call it. It feels great. Are there any hints or advice for a new guy? David C in Huntly, NZ, amateur Pascal progger, digest member.

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Cool things that were released today
by Craig Box 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

New NVIDIA drivers (which now work on kernels with 4k stacks) http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_1.0-6106.html Mono v1.0 http://www.mono-project.com/about/index.html Craig

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RE: [wlug] LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Chris Day 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

>>> I am still planning for this (I only heard about it when you did ;) Well, you looked like you needed a break from that router - istead of breaking it! Got the MIB sorted yet????

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RE: [wlug] LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Ross Hamblin 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Hi Daniel and WLUG, Thank you for this offer to help out. It will be good to have some LUG members there and we really appreciate your support on this. Some NZOSS members have also offered to attend, so should be an excellent opportunity to show what Linux/OSS can do. I am still planning for this (I only heard about it when you did ;) ) but expect to get back to you tomorrow afternoon as to what equipment will be available there etc. Regards, Ross. Ross Hamblin - DSE (NZ) Ltd. > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Lawson [mailto:daniel(a)meta.net.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2004 15:20 > To: Chris Day; Ross Hamblin; Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse > Computer Weekend > > > Chris, Ross. > > The Waikato Linux Users Group would like to help out at this > event. What organisation is needed between us to make this happen? > > We'd like to borrow a couple of machines you stock to install > recent versions of linux on, if that's at all possible. We > feel this would look better than having x assorted random > home pcs running linux as demonstration units. Maybe a couple > of desktops and a laptop, if that's ok? And, of course, > you'll have windows machines already for demonstrating OSS > apps for windows. > > We'll look at organising some info sheets regarding Linux > /OSS / WLUG as well. > > Regards, > > Daniel Lawson > President, > Waikato Linux Users Group > Phone: (021) 381-013 > email: daniel(a)meta.net.nz > > >

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LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Chris Day 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

DSE(NZ)Ltd would like to take our involvement with NZOSS & LUG one step further by inviting representatives to participate in our Hamilton Powerhouse Computer weekend on 17/18 July 2004. During this weekend, representatives from many of our computer suppliers will be there demonstrating computer hardware - we feel it is an opportunity for experienced NZOSS & LUG members to offer our customers advice on Open Source software options. I do not believe we are at a point where we have the room or experience to pull off a full on public install fest. But I do believe it's an opportunity to discuss with consumers what Open Source is all about, perhaps enlist new members and provide consumers with free Open Source CD's to take home and try out (we will be supplying these). I still have some internal finalising to do but I would like to see a range of computers running Open Source software and am looking to list members to help demonstrate the software running on these and hand out the CD's (and LUG/NZOSS pamphlets?) - this in-store demonstration area has yet to be finalized along with any additional needs we identify. If you are a senior member and would like to help us out, please contact ross.hamblin(a)dse.co.nz - Ross and I will be doing our best to make this event successful. Any feedback would be gratefully appreciated. I appreciate this is late notice but we are concerned with the commercial implications of broadcasting an event like this prior to it occurring. Also, I understand that some members may take offence at this message or our approach. If this is the case, then I do sincerely apologise - please bear with us as we figure out the right way to do this. Kind regards, Chris Day Senior Buyer DSE(NZ)Ltd

4 5

firewall hell
by Glenn Ramsey 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

I'm having some trouble with the ipmasq firewall setup on my Debian box. For those that aren't familiar with how it works, the iptables commands are specified in a number of .def/.rul files in /etc/ipmasq/rules. I think these get run by run-parts when /usr/sbin/ipmasq is run. Also ipmasq gets run whenever ppp goes up or down. The default ipmasq with ppp installation firewalls the internal (masqueraded) machines but does not protect the firewall machine itself. A while back this machine got rootkitted (over a dialup link!) and at that time I discovered that when the ipmasq docs talk about it providing a firewall, they don't mean the masq machine itself. I then modified one of the the ipmasq rule scripts using some info from the wlug wiki and it all worked. Recently I was looking at trying to make the audio work in Windows Messenger[1] and discovered that my firewall was no longer working and I couldn't see any dropped packets in the logs ( which led me to think that logging wasn't enabled). I must have upgraded something, don't know what, that caused the firewall to stop working. I discovered that there are some default scripts that provide what I want in the ipmasq examples and installed those. Now I'm firewalled but the firewall drops DNS forwards from my internal bind so things don't work so well. However if I do: $/etc/init.d/ipmasq stop $/etc/init.d/ipmasq start after dialing in then it works. What should I be looking for to diagnose the problem? As far I can tell, which admittedly is not very far, the configuration is fine and is essentially the default install with only changes made to the config definitions to specify which ports to block. Any advice appreciated. g [1] If anyone has done that, any advice would be appreciated on that too. -- Glenn Ramsey <glenn(a)componic.co.nz> 07 8627077 http://www.componic.co.nz

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RE: [wlug] Any Hints or Advice?
by Lindsay Druett 07 Jul '04

07 Jul '04

I strongly agree with Gavin. Sounds like you have had a good start anyway. Not many people have come me saying "I have just installed (whatever) Linux on my machine and it feels great", a lot of people have said, "I tried to get Linux working on my machine, but I couldn't get it to work...", and a lot of those people were IT professionals - they have got sucked in too deep into the dark side. Yep, there is a steep learning curve ahead, but it's really worth it. Open Source Software has done a lot for me than any variant of MS Windows will ever do. I'm not anti-Microsoft - but the more you get into Linux, the more you realise why other people think Windows Sux, furthermore you are siding them with those views. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2004 08:30 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] Any Hints or Advice? > > > If you an get into Hamilton on a Monday night, (Sadly I cant > ) get along > to the lug meetings. > > At the beginning a lot goes over your head, just let it go, > meeting the > people and the tips you pick up by watching them will make your life > easier, you will learn a lot, and you will build good friendships and > strong networks. Linux is more community than OS IMHO ..... > And the OS > really rocks. > > Mandrake is good place to start in Linux, but most of the > local lug use > Fedora, Although there are a lot of die hard debian fans too. > I'm on a > slackware derivative nowadays, but we all learn from each > other and help > each other. > > Also Google is a very good search engine for linux users. > > > David7 wrote: > > >Hello > > > >I have just gone over, or come over, to Unix - Mandrake 10.0 > they call it. It > >feels great. > >Are there any hints or advice for a new guy? > > > >David C in Huntly, NZ, > > amateur Pascal progger, digest member. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > >Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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[NZOSS-OpenChat] LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton PowerhouseComputer Weekend
by Craig Box 06 Jul '04

06 Jul '04

Mark Foster writes... > I appreciate this is late notice but we are concerned with the > commercial implications of broadcasting an event like this prior to it > occurring. Also, I understand that some members may take offence at > this message or our approach. If this is the case, then I do sincerely > apologise - please bear with us as we figure out the right way to do > this. > Hi Chris, Ross et al. I personally have no issues whatsoever with this being posted either on NZLUG or the NZOSS Openchat list. I'd also be quite happy to trek down to Hamilton and wave the flag, for one of the two days of that weekend. Also happy to help coordinate if any Aucklanders want to carpool, etc, and can bring my Laptop (a DSE Product funnily enough) running Knoppix-from-CD (its not HD installed, sadly). Likewise theres always my Windows XP Install running Mozilla Firefox as its default browser, Thunderbird for Email and other open source applications for media, etc etc... Ross based on the number of volunteers you get and which day or days they prefer to attend, let me know when suits. Thanks for the opportunity to give Linux and OSS a plug :-) Mark.

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Dumping old stuff
by Daniel Lawson 04 Jul '04

04 Jul '04

As the topic says - I won't add glamour to this :) I've got a pile of old books and software that have sat on my shelves, unused, for a long time. For various reason I don't think they are suitable for donation to the WLUG library, nor do I think anyone will read them anyway. If anyone wants any of the list below, contact me offlist. Also, if anyone has any bright ideas regarding how I can get rid of this in a way that allows other people to make use of it if possible, please let me know. I hate dumping stuff - even though much of this has little value at all any more :). I've listed the books and delphi on trademe, but if you want them let me know. I doubt they'll move quick. It's all going to the dump if I don't get any other suggestions (I have no idea if second hand stores would even touch these...) Books: Sams MS SQL Server DBA Survival Guide Hitch-hikers guide to Visual Basic and SQL Access 97 Unleashed Informix Unleashed Using Sybase Access 2 Developer's Guide Office 97 Unleashed Mastering Delphi Software: Delphi 5 Professional PC Handyman Games: Asheron's Call Reach for the Skies (5.25") Cannon Fodder Command & Conquer - Red Alert (CD) Spelljammer - Pirates of Realmspace (5.25") Populous II and Powermonger Sowrd of Aragon (5.25" i think) Warlords II Diablo and Hellfire expansion pack. Hardware: USB Webcam, win98 only (will kill win2k/xp), some support in linux last i looked.

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logging in ipmasq
by Glenn Ramsey 04 Jul '04

04 Jul '04

Hi, Anyone know how to turn on logging in ipmasq in Debian? The docs in /usr/share/doc/ipmasq do not mention it. g -- Glenn Ramsey <glenn(a)componic.co.nz> 07 8627077 http://www.componic.co.nz

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IBM and the JVM
by s swami 03 Jul '04

03 Jul '04

Hi guys, here is text of what I'll put up somewhere. Thought I'd get some feedback here first. It's meant to piss IBM supporters off -- don't take it personally. I make some unsubstantiated claims but wtf everybody else is :-) Cheers, Sid --------------------------------------------------------------------- In an open letter to Sun, http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-openlet IBM offers to work with Sun on an open-source implementation of the Java Virtual Machine (JVM). Here is how the letter came about. o IBM had/have been bleating for a while that Sun should open-source the Sun JVM. o Some open source enthusiasts had/have been doing the same - i.e. bleating*. o Analysts and journalists just repeat what the different factions say. Some seem to conflate the language, the virtual machine and the runtime libraries. It was after an insistent journalist (enraptured by IBM's self-professed commitment to an "open-source Java") repeated the call (at a public event) that someone from Sun asked: why does IBM not open-source its own version of the JVM? i.e. why are the buggers haranguing Sun? IBM jumped at this with the open letter mentioned above. In short: they will gladly work with Sun on a common open-source implementation of a JVM if both Sun and IBM offered resources including source code (to their respective JVMs). Excuse me IBM, who asked you to open-source Sun's JVM? I'd like you to open-source /yours/ please. IBM have been veritably shouting their desire for an open source JVM but they are not willing to open source their own implementation. They will if Sun does the same (that's what it boils down to). This smacks of hypocrisy at least and hidden agendas. Why bring Sun into it? Why not BEA or Oracle or ... the open source community? The strength of the present arrangement is that the specs are there for all to see, vendors implement their own JVMs (and they have) and the consumer chooses one or more implementations based on what he requires and his estimation of the competing JVMs. This leads to a thriving industry with high quality JVMs. It gives me choice and I like that. Great. So what's the problem? Simple: IBM's JVM just can't compete with Sun's. Both of them are free for us to download and use. Try them yourself. Yep, IBM can't even give its JVM away. Whose JVM do you have running on your machine? Now Sun's JVM is a beautiful thing! And it is Sun's JVM that will take hardware customers from IBM to Sun. For the same money, Sun's JVM running on Solaris and Sun hardware will outperform the corresponding offering from IBM -- I reckon. And IBM knows it too. My conclusion: IBM are telling fibs, really obvious ones too. Hey whattup IBM? Cat got ya source? ------------------------------------------------------------------- * we have lots of sheep in New Zealand.

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Re: [wlug] Cool things that were released today [OT]
by Matthew Browne (DSL HN) 02 Jul '04

02 Jul '04

At 13:03 2/07/2004, Oliver Jones wrote: >Yep. I completely agree. My stock answer to people who say they want a >computer to surf and do email with I say "buy a Mac". Problem is they >don't like the fact that a Mac is $1000 more expensive than a Windows >box. You can buy a brand new Windows box for $500? Where can I get one... http://store.apple.co.nz/public/product/group.php?pgid=AP13

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Re: [wlug] IBM and the JVM
by s swami 01 Jul '04

01 Jul '04

On Thursday 01 July 2004 20:43, you wrote: > Sid > > Your arguments seem emotional, poorly founded, irrational > overreactions stemmed from unrealistic and idealistic goals, and > you would be best to drop the subject. What are the unrealistic and idealistic goals you refer to? How is it emotional, poorly founded and an overreaction. You would be best to do better :-) > If you really want to help, do some real research into what IBM is > doing give them real-world reasons to do what you ask, things that > managers will respond to. They have themselves given reasons for open-sourcing their JVM. I'm just asking them to do it. > This isn't a personal attack and I apoligise if this is the way I > come across. I really think you're overreacting here, try to > >approach the situation pragmatically. Hey no worries Dr Spooner. But unfortunately you've got yourself into an interesting situation. Please read carefully what you have written and you will see that all you have done is given us your opinion with "jack" to back them up. > Best Regards And to you my friend. Sid.

1 0

Samba (re Monday's meeting)
by Daniel Lawson 01 Jul '04

01 Jul '04

One thing I forgot to mention when Greig asked me to talk about Samba in general, is that I am completely and utterly sick of samba playing catchup. Samba will always chase behind Microsoft's implementation. If Samba ever fully catches up and can play the AD game perfectly, and has zero problems, MS only has to move to another structure. It's a futile game to play at. Current Samba implementations fall foul of many of the problems Greig talked about. It's almost the same, but it is subtly different in many ways, and this causes problems. There aren't really any decent unified configuration systems yet, so running an LDAP backed samba system which *works* is not a trivial task to set up. The entire domain model of samba is tedious to work with unless you're running MS gear. That said, it's the only option right now. There are ways around it which have been implemented on large university networks, however support is tedious. I'm looking at using a custom GINA (the login part of windows) which will auth via Kerberos or LDAP, and having an AFS based network (Andrew File System), a distributed file system). It's not all doom and gloom, I guess. I get fairly frustrated with the attitude that seems to dominate overall major linux development which says that we have to mimic Windows. GNOME and KDE have done this, Samba is perpetually doing this. If Linux actually *is* better than Windows, why do we have to mimic them? We could at least be mimicing Mac OS X. I'd like that. Daniel

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Fw: Transparent Proxy install - RH linux 7.3(2.4.20-28.7) updated via RHN w/ IPtables enabled & Squid 2.5-Stable5 w/ Dansguardian-2.6.1 & AV plug-in.
by scott.pichelman＠weirslurry.com 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

Ok, since I haev to wait moderator approval for over 40KB , I did not attach my files and will have to later on... TIA! Scott Scott Pichelman Systems Administrator Weir Slurry TM North America 2701 S Stoughton Rd Madison WI 53716 USA T: +001 608 226 5615 F: +001 608 221 5807 M: +001 608 279 0368 E: scott.pichelman(a)weirslurry.com W: http://weirslurry.com ----- Forwarded by Scott Pichelman/US/WAR/Weir on 06/30/2004 09:55 AM ----- Scott Pichelman/US/WAR/Weir 06/30/2004 09:36 AM To wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz cc Subject Transparent Proxy install - RH linux 7.3(2.4.20-28.7) updated via RHN w/ IPtables enabled & Squid 2.5-Stable5 w/ Dansguardian-2.6.1 & AV plug-in. Hi all, Can anyone help me out with my dilemma? Here is a brief overview of my situation... Research: I have been trying to get the above mentioned to work for some time! I have read Doc from these sources: http://dansguardian.org/?page=documentation http://dansguardian.org/?page=dgflow http://www.nyetwork.org/wiki/DansGuardian And...other posts/threads and doc as well! Mission: We are a mid-sized organization trying to set-up a Proxy server to cache & filter requests from Windows users. We "would" like to set-up all the above in the email "subject" line on one machine. Can we use it as a gateway like transparent proxying suggests? Can I use a test machine w/ a "DHCP" address & will the FW(iptables) still work properly? In what order should I configure, whast type of logging could I use to troubleshoot? I know it has been done and I have little time now, sigh. So, I found your list while searching google noticed that WPAD might be a better way to go, is this true in some cases? We do not want to have to change "browser settings" on all of the client machines. I am unfamiliar with a transparent proxy versus other options but wonder if someone could help me out with doc? Finally, I may be missing something very easily, if so, please forgive my carelessness. Is there a simple procedure to follow so I install simply and than add complexity as I go? Tryed installing one app at a time starting w/ Squid then DG w/ plug-in, then IP tables but to no avail... I used the standard config files in many cases and will attach those files. The errors I receive are when setting my browser to "direct connection" are "ERROR Requested URL could not be retrieved" & "Access Denied". There have been times when Squid/DG & IPtables filtering seem to work, but would filter "all" sites most of the time. Most of the time when I enable the FW or IPtables it does not seem to work correctly. Meanwhile, I am trying a new distro - RH AS 2.1 server and will patch 2/ up2date. Please view my attached doc and conf files. root(a)Linux-Test dansguardian]# cat /etc/sysconfig/iptables # Generated by iptables-save v1.2.8 on Tue Jun 29 16:49:36 2004 *nat :PREROUTING ACCEPT [22:4542] :POSTROUTING ACCEPT [1:132] :OUTPUT ACCEPT [1:132] -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to-ports 8080 COMMIT # Completed on Tue Jun 29 16:49:36 2004 # Generated by iptables-save v1.2.8 on Tue Jun 29 16:49:36 2004 *filter :INPUT ACCEPT [627:56813] :FORWARD ACCEPT [0:0] :OUTPUT ACCEPT [293:29548] -A INPUT -s ! 127.0.0.1 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 3128 -j DROP COMMIT # Completed on Tue Jun 29 16:49:36 2004 Any help is greatly appreciated, if possible. Thanks. Scott Scott Pichelman Systems Administrator Weir Slurry TM North America 2701 S Stoughton Rd Madison WI 53716 USA T: +001 608 226 5615 F: +001 608 221 5807 M: +001 608 279 0368 E: scott.pichelman(a)weirslurry.com W: http://weirslurry.com The information contained in this email (including any attachments) is confidential, subject to copyright and for the use of the intended recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient please delete this message after notifying the sender. Unauthorised retention, alteration or distribution of this email is forbidden and may be actionable. Attachments are opened at your own risk and you are advised to scan incoming email for viruses before opening any attached files. We give no guarantee that any communication is virus-free and accept no responsibility for virus contamination or other system loss or damage of any kind.

2 2

Re: [wlug] IBM and the JVM
by s swami 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

On Wednesday 30 June 2004 22:43, Oliver wrote: > > Now Sun's JVM is a beautiful thing! And it is Sun's JVM that > > will take hardware customers from IBM to Sun. For the same > > money, Sun's JVM running on Solaris and Sun hardware will > > outperform the corresponding offering from IBM -- I reckon. And > > IBM knows it too. > > > > My conclusion: IBM are telling fibs, really obvious ones too. > > I'm not so sure about the current state of affairs but certainly in > JDK 1.3 days IBM's JVM and Jikes compiler were often quoted as > being faster and better than Sun's respectively. I was talking about the Sun combination vs the IBM combination. But I'll take it out since it detracts from the main point. Thanks. Sid.

1 0

Trouble connecting linux to ValueNet
by Glenn Ramsey 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

Hi, My Dad has asked me to help with a dialup connection problem to ValueNet. He has Mandrake 9.0 and it works fine when connecting to Xtra. connection. The ValueNet connection also works fine from a win95 PC. From the log it appears that PPP is not starting: Valuenet with correct login data (same result with incorrect user name or password) Jun 24 20:50:03 localhost pppd[2645]: pppd 2.4.1 started by trevor, uid 1001 Jun 24 20:50:03 localhost pppd[2645]: using channel 38 Jun 24 20:50:03 localhost pppd[2645]: Using interface ppp0 Jun 24 20:50:03 localhost pppd[2645]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ham Jun 24 20:50:03 localhost pppd[2645]: sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0xe86fb3e4> <pcomp> <accomp>] Jun 24 20:50:06 localhost pppd[2645]: sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0xe86fb3e4> <pcomp> <accomp>] Jun 24 20:50:33 localhost pppd[2645]: LCP: timeout sending Config-Requests Jun 24 20:50:33 localhost pppd[2645]: Connection terminated. Jun 24 20:50:33 localhost pppd[2645]: Receive serial link is not 8-bit clean: Jun 24 20:50:33 localhost pppd[2645]: Problem: all had bit 7 set to 0 Jun 24 20:50:33 localhost pppd[2645]: Exit. Does anyone have a working linux dialup connection to ValueNet? If so would you be able to let me know what configuration is required? Anyone else got any ideas? TIA g -- Glenn Ramsey <glenn(a)componic.co.nz> 07 8627077 http://www.componic.co.nz

5 7

WLUG Meeting is tonight
by Meeting Reminder bot 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

The WLUG meeting is this evening ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Targeting Linux to Business. GreigMcGill plans to cover: * What Linux is currently very good at. * What I think is required to improve this. * What Linux currently CAN'T do * What I think is required to help this * Some notes on advocating Linux to businesses. Please replace Linux with OSS/FreeBSD/Whatever as your needs dictate. :) CrawshawSchool.

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Re: [wlug] WLUG Meeting is tonight
by s swami 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

> > > The language doesn't have to be interpreted. Java is a > > > compiled language. It's just not compiled to the native > > > machine code. > > > > Most JVMs compile to native code, either JIT or ahead-of-time. > > Yes I know that the JVM does a certain amount of byte code to > native code translation. But this is implementation specific and > not guaranteed. It's called a virtual machine for a reason. Please clarify in your mind the differences among the language, the libraries and the JVM. Then you will realise that the specification for the Java language is silent about whether it is to be interpreted, byte-compiled or compiled to machine code. That is why I responded to your incorrect statements: "Java is a compiled language. It's just not compiled to the native machine code." by explicitly mentioning the JVM. You will also then realise why your claim that IBM has "forked" java is incorrect. (Aristotle points this out to you). As to fears of forking, they are genuine. here is a link for you: http://firebird.sourceforge.net/ And here is an excerpt from one of the pages from that site: --QUOTE------------------------------------------------------------- In August 2000, Borland Software Corp. (formerly known as Inprise) released the beta version of InterBase 6.0 as open source. The community of waiting developers and users preferred to establish itself as an independent, self-regulating team rather than submit to the risks, conditions and restrictions that the company proposed for community participation in open source development. A core of developers quickly formed a project and installed its own source tree on SourceForge. They liked the Phoenix logo which was to have been ISC's brandmark and adopted the name "Firebird" for the project. Because Borland's open source efforts regarding InterBase never really took off beyond prime release of the source code and the company returned its focus to closed commercial development, Firebird became THE Open Source version of InterBase. --END OF QUOTE-------------------------------------------------------- <ethical_rant> You see what these f--ks did? Now I don't give a shit what reasons they had, they should have gotten over it like Netscape/Mozilla did. It goes against the values I hold -- respect the company for the steps they took to open their sources and work with them for the benefit of all. If you have a problem, get some self-respect and write your own damn code from scratch. As more companies open their sources, I hope that similar sentiments to mine will enter the hacker ethic. </ethical_rant> > The main reason is so that Java's fortunes are not tied to Suns > fortunes. Which frankly are looking a little bleak. > ... Java as a platform is not tied to Sun's fortunes. Read the license, write code and give the code to Sun. You, IBM and MS can all do that. So far I have seen two arguments for "open sourcing" Java that are worth considering: (1) It will be convenient for Debian users since it will enable apt to transparently manage any packages. (2) Freedom will be good for the platform. To (1): This is a problem with Debian and apt. It can't be the download (I do it on my 33K) it is the hoops that /Debian/ and /apt/ require us to jump through. To (2): Yes. Let us hope that if it happens, we get a license similar in spirit to that of freedom, that Sun is given the respect it deserves and is able to profit fairly from it. And boy if I see the Firebird faction turning their evil green eyes thataway ... Sid

3 3

Re: [wlug] WLUG Meeting is tonight
by s swami 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

My replies to Daniel: > >You see what these f--ks did? Now I don't give a shit what reasons > >they had, they should have gotten over it like Netscape/Mozilla > > did. > > Which f--ks are that? Borland? I was using a lot of Borland > products at the time, so I remember the release of Interbase quite > clearly. It definitely had the feel of a company wishing to keep > dead code alive. Interbase was a good RDBMS, but it was losing > marketshare to SQL Server. IMO, the move to open source Interbase > was pushed by this, and not neccesarily out of any good will to the > world. These folks :-) referred to Firebird developers. Perhaps I was insufficiently clear: the context was the risks of "forking". Firebird forked Interbase and I don't care what their reasons were. They should have worked with Borland. > >It goes against the values I hold -- respect the company for the > >steps they took to open their sources and work with them for the > >benefit of all. If you have a problem, get some self-respect and > >write your own damn code from scratch. > > Now you seem to be talking about the Firebird developers (where did > the Netscape analogy go?) What's wrong with forking a codebase? > Especially if you think that the original codebase was released by > a company in trouble, as a way to wipe their hands of a dying > product. There we go, whats wrong with forking Java? And this is what concerns Sun and java developers like me. > > Don't get me wrong, I'm dead again the > zillion-opensource-products-to-do-the-one-thing sort of mentality > (yet another emacs with wordstar bindings and tetris.... what's the > point?), but in the case where you have taken a supposedly open > sourced product, and found that the group in charge of it is being > slow or tedious to get patches accepted, and in fact don't even > seem to *care* any more, what's the problem with forking it? It is > better to fork it than lose ongoing development entirely, surely? Java gets forked because MS feels that their patches aren't being accepted fast enough. > >As more companies open their sources, I hope that similar > > sentiments to mine will enter the hacker ethic. > > Your sentiment being "Always write your own code from scratch, > rather than take a useful codebase and work on it"? I hope not. > You're missing out on one of the most powerful aspects of open > source - you can take a project and modify it and release that, > legally. That is not my sentiment. But you highlight the risks of forking again. > Maybe I should point out where a fork has been beneficial: Samba > and Samba-TNG (The Next Generation). Samba TNG was forked at a time > where some of the developers thought the direction the main Samba > team was going was wrong. TNG was aimed at rewriting parts of the > core of Samba to do things much closer to the way windows does it. > Now, if Luke Leighton got "some self-respect and wrote [his] own > code from scratch", TNG would never have taken off. Far too much > work. This is not the same as my example. Interbase was originally close sourced, Samba was always open and developed by the community. If a large part of the community (read people who contributed code) feel the need for a change of direction, that is fine by me (similarly, I feel fine about X.org). You see these guys working on Samba-TNG and X.org contributed greatly to the original products. Now the f__ks who quickly set up their own Interbase repository and called it Firebird did not contribute a single line of code to what was a mature product (Interbase) -- they couldn't, it had been closed. They did not have the pedigree of the likes of Leighton or Packard and friends who also forked their originals. Forking in itself is not bad, it's who forks it and why. These ethical questions can be seen as relative. Hackers will vote with their fingers. If enough agree with my sentiments, these will enter the hacker ethic. (I hope I've made myself clearer). > >To (1): This is a problem with Debian and apt. It can't be the > >download (I do it on my 33K) it is the hoops that /Debian/ and > > /apt/ require us to jump through. > > If the license says you can't redistribute it, then any > distribution which prefers to maintain it's own repositories will > have this problem. I don't want to get into a discussion of what the different parties mean by "redistribute". Let's just look at it empirically: Java comes on every major Linix distribution disk apart from Debian. FreeBSD has negotiated a license with Sun that allows it to distribute Java from the FreeBSD site. NetBSD are doing something similar. Apple comes with Java. Clearly the problem is the Debian stance. Distributions can choose to be flexible. We all know of Linus's flexibility wrt to binary drivers "in" the kernel just as we know of RMS's opposite view. For Debian it is a religious question. That's fine. > Sure, you can always download it manually. And you can go and set > up your environment manually to path it correctly. And you can > setup binfmt so that you can just run a java app without having to > know it's java. What happens when you want to put a package that > depends on the jvm into your repository however? It is *really* > messy having a dependancy installed from source. Then your package sytem has a weakness with "having a dependancy installed from source". You could improve your packaging system or mandate (I'm being cheeky: substutute "ask") that all software conform with your broken packaging system. > >To (2): Yes. Let us hope that if it happens, we get a license > > similar in spirit to that of freedom, that Sun is given the > > respect it deserves and is able to profit fairly from it. > > > >And boy if I see the Firebird faction turning their evil green > > eyes thataway ... > > Get over it. If Borland stopped development of Interbase after > releasing it, it was because Borland didn't care enough about it. > Firebird did nothing wrong, other than force Mozilla to change the > name of it's browser a second time in short order. Interbase is still being developed by Borland. I will never use or support Firebird.

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Gotcha!
by Michael & Colleen McDonald 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

Not so long ago I decided to dabble my toes in the waters of Linux, to broaden my experience and see for myself if it can truly replace that "other" operating system. I purchased a new system with 2 disk drives and proceeded with some testing. Since I wasn't ready to break "the ties that bind", my plan was to install Linux on the slave drive and that other system on the master. Fedora Core 1 loaded nicely onto the slave drive. But ... on booting the system, "GRUB" would appear on the screen (no menu) and there it would stay. Fortunately I had created a boot floppy. Away I could go, having to boot from floppy. Just as well I had a floppy drive! That boot floppy was transferred to CD within a couple of days. The other operating system was loaded on to the master drive. No problems there, but it was interesting to note that many drivers had to loaded (with much rebooting of the system) before all the hardware was operational - whereas Linux coped "out of the box". Was surprised to find that my system drive was "G:" ... because of the Linux partitions set up earlier. Along comes Fedora Core 2. Great! The install went like a charm ... until the reboot. Of course, Grub still wouldn't load. The boot diskette (CD) for the 2.4 Kernel proved useless too! I've tried, without success to recreate the loader, even trying to put the loader on /hda. Even went to the extent of renaming some files in the boot partition on /hdb1 ... that caused the installer to think I needed a new loader (which is what I intended!), but when it came to the end of the installation it said the loader was up to date so it didn't need to replace it. "Help!" ... any suggestions please? Michael

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RE: [wlug] WLUG Meeting is tonight
by Lindsay Druett 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

And someone here can organise a bus for a trip to Taupo and back... :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Lawson [mailto:daniel(a)meta.net.nz] > Sent: Monday, 28 June 2004 14:33 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] WLUG Meeting is tonight > > You really should try to make it up for a meeting sometime > Oliver. Taupo > isn't that far away. Perhaps you could even present a meeting > of your own? > > Daniel > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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p200 server
by Gavin Denby 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

A while back I was offered a full server size p200 for a file server. I have lost the e-mail from the offer, and cant find who it was. Could that person please contact me off list. Thanks.

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OT - Need a CD copy - Visual C#.net standard Version 2002
by Gavin Denby 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

I have a fully licensed version of this software, but disk 1 has been damaged, and I cannot install it. Microsoft will sell me replacement Media at $50NZ but before I fork out more money on this, I thought I'd ask if anyone has a set of this with CD 1 that I can get a Backup of to allow me to work past the damaged bit of the media on disk 1, and install the software on my new laptop. otherwise its more dollars for Microsoft NZ that I would rather spend elsewhere. I need this for a course. so any help will be appreciated. After that I can migrate to mono. Please reply to me off list as this really has nothing to do with Linux, but since we have so many smart programmers here, someone may be able to help me hang on to a few dollars. Sorry if this traffic is a annoyance, I won't ask here again. honest.

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