- wlug - list.wlug.org.nz

Official announcement of 2005 Installfest
by Craig Box 24 Apr '05

24 Apr '05

Hi everyone, The Waikato Linux Users Group are proud to announce their second annual Linux installfest, to be held at the Crawshaw School Hall on Crawshaw Drive, Hamilton, from 10am on Saturday 7th May. Registration for the installfest is now open on the WLUG website at http://www.wlug.org.nz/InstallFest. There is no charge to attend. "Our last installfest was a great success and an educational experience for the WLUG, as well as the participants" says group president Greig McGill. "We look forward to applying lessons learned last year, and making this one as good as it can be." Over 50 people attended the 2004 event, and this year WLUG intend to streamline the installations in order to run more training. For people who are interested in Free Software, but not yet ready to take the leap into running Linux, the WLUG will also have demonstrations of free software for Microsoft Windows, such as the tremendously popular Firefox web browser and OpenOffice.org office software. How you can help ---------------- If you are interested in helping with the installfest organization, check out the http://www.wlug.org.nz/InstallFestToDo page, and email me if there is anything there you'd like to have a go at. If you want to sign up to either attend or help on the day, please register on the registration page. (The page will be updated later tonight; if you go earlier, please make it clear if you're a helper or a new installation). Thanks Craig

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6to4 site examples wanted
by Steven Lisson 24 Apr '05

24 Apr '05

Hi, I have been having some difficulty accessing the www.wlug.org.nz site via IPv6 from my network, all machines apart from the gateway do not use a 6to4 addressing (e.g. 2001:db0:10f7:1::1), as soon as a trace leaves the 2001:: range the trace fails (no matter if it leaves IPv6 via the 6to4 interface on the gateway or elsewhere on the IPv6 internet), however, the gateway that has a 6to4 address on it can ping, trace and view the website without difficulty. To assist with further troubleshooting further from my end could someone please provide me with some other sites that use 6to4 addresses so I can troubleshoot further, I was going through a list of IPv6 websites that I know of but only 1 site I tested out of about 70 on the list used a 2002:: address and it was offline in both the ipv4 and 6 internet. Sorry to be a hassle but would like to get to the cause of the issue and be able to rectify it as it is pretty much the only site I regularly visit via IPv6 that I have problems with. Regards, Steve

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Joining split avi files.
by Oliver Jones 23 Apr '05

23 Apr '05

Howdy folks. Linux to the rescue yet again. I needed to join some avi files together, end on end. I did a Google and found lots of shareware/download-ware utilities for Windows for doing the job. All wanted money. Of course I thought, "This is dumb. There has to be a Linux command-line tool for this." One of the Google results mentioned avicat on Linux. Part of Mplayer's transcode suite. I knew I had transcode installed but avicat didn't exist. So I went, "$ avi<tab><tab>" and lo and behold the command avimerge appeared and looked promising. After a quite man read it became clear that this was exactly what I wanted and I set about "fixing" my avi files. Hurrah! Regards -- Oliver Jones » Roving Code Warrior oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 » www.deeperdesign.com

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Microsoft announces support for Linux!
by Ian McDonald 21 Apr '05

21 Apr '05

Looks like Microsoft has realised Linux has gained real support. This is showing that Linux IS gaining real traction if Microsoft support. http://news.com.com/Microsofts+Ballmer+grins+and+bears+Linux--a+little/2100… Please remember - be professional in your replies. WLUG is not about maligning any software company - we are about supporting Linux and this has to be good news. Regards, Ian

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web hosting
by stephen pearce 21 Apr '05

21 Apr '05

Our web host will soon be shutting down ... the choise of alternatives is overwhelming .. has anyone got any thoughts on best price performance options locally? Thanks Stephen

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No meeting this Monday
by Craig Box 20 Apr '05

20 Apr '05

Hi everyone, Due to Monday being Anzac day and the installfest coming up soon after, we have decided to roll the planned upcoming meeting on Monday 25 April into the Installfest which is happening on Saturday 7th June. Please accept our apologies for the late decision, but rest assured that big plans are underway for the installfest and we look forward to seeing you all there! Craig (on behalf of the WLUG Committee)

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Committee and installfest update
by Craig Box 20 Apr '05

20 Apr '05

Hi everyone, Another month, another committee meeting. Please see http://www.wlug.org.nz/CommitteeMeetingTopics.2005-04-20 for the minutes. I hope that due to the lack of input from the members this means we're doing everything right and you're all very happy! :) An update on the installfest planning. We are on track and you're welcome to check out whats happening at the http://www.wlug.org.nz/InstallFestToDo page. Any offers of help are always welcome! What we would love you to do is print copies of the poster from http://www.wlug.org.nz/archive/installfest/installfest-poster-2005.pdf, and put them up anywhere you can think of that people might be interested. Thanks, Craig

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Intro and ISPs
by Ian Swainson 20 Apr '05

20 Apr '05

Mornin All, Just arrived in NZ from (not so) sunny Ireland, recently joined your esteemed mailing list, looking forward to catching up with some of you in person at the next installfest. Please be gentle with me... As I've just arrived, I'm looking for a nice Linux-friendly ISP to give my hard-earned cash to - any recommendations would be gratefully received. Google is usually my friend, but NZ certainly has a lot more choice than Ireland. In Ireland many of the ISPs are free, and make their money from the phone-calls. They all seem to need registration here - is that the case? In relation to above, does anyone know if this USB Modem will play with Linux nicely? http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/42656b330da56e082740c0a87f99070… ...I note that it has a Conexant chipset, which reeks of WinModem nastiness. I need the modem for a lappy, so can't go the internal route. Feedback delightfully received. I have had some success with WinModems on Linux, the drivers certainly have come a long way. Not sure about this one tho. Anyhoo, let the flaming begin (although surely ye can't be as bad as the ILUG...:) ) Cheers, ian -- "Turn off the lights and I'll glow." -Implausible Claims Made by Vanilla Ice in "Ice Ice Baby." http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/lists/26DougErickson.html

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Command line util of the day.
by Oliver Jones 19 Apr '05

19 Apr '05

To continue the trend set by James Clark... Here is my choice for useful command-line tool of the day. fold Fold is a simple little command line util that lets you fold lines of text at a particular width. Eg if you have some long lines of text, say out of some HTML or other document format that only maintains paragraph breaks, that you want to show on a console screen you can do this: fold -s -w 70 long-lines.txt |less This command will fold the text from long-lines.txt at 70 characters (or the nearest preceding space). If you leave off -s the lines will get cut in the middle of words. Most consoles are 80 columns wide and fold defaults to a width (-w) of 80 columns. This can also be useful in scripts where you need to display a paragraph of text with interpolated variables which you don't know the width of beforehand. Eg: echo -n "Enter some text: " read var para="You said, '$var'. That's really interesting. But \ do you know the answer to the ultimate question of life, \ the universe, and everything?"; echo $para | fold -s -w 78 - Regards -- Oliver Jones » Roving Code Warrior oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 » www.deeperdesign.com

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WLUG Meeting is one week away
by Meeting Reminder bot 17 Apr '05

17 Apr '05

The Waikato Linux Users Group have a meeting in one week today. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A WLUG meeting is booked for this date. No topic has been set. If you're seeing this message, feel free to suggest or offer to present a meeting topic - the MeetingTopics page might be a good place to start.

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WANTED: Cisco admin in Taupo
by Andrew Thrift 14 Apr '05

14 Apr '05

Hi All, We have a new site in Taupo that is connected to TelstraClear Private IP via a Cisco 805 Router on frame relay. As I am going on holiday tomorrow I am unable to go onsite and figure out why the connection is not coming up when the router is as far as I can remember configured properly. Is anyone on this list in Taupo and able to check it out for me, and if so reply off list with your hourly rate. Regards, Andrew Thrift National IT Manager Turbo Investments Group.

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DHBs to test open source alternative to Windows and Office
by Bnonn 12 Apr '05

12 Apr '05

<http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/UNID/39A5FAC6A45E8FB2CC256FDA00319B5C?O…> --- DHBs to test open source alternative to Windows and Office Boards band together to reduce their software licensing costs Stephen Bell, Wellington New Zealand's District Health Boards plan a trial of open source desktop software in an effort to reduce the licensing fees they pay to Microsoft — more than $20 million over three years, according to one estimate. Microsoft licences are a major element of DHBs’ software costs, says Phil Brimacombe, CIO of Waitemata and Counties Manukau DHBs and healthAlliance, the shared services organisation owned by the two boards. While there are some “power users” likely to need the full capabilities of Microsoft Office and related applications, users with less elaborate IT demands may be able to use OpenOffice.org and other open source software at much-reduced cost, Brimacombe says. At a quarterly meeting of DHB CIOs in February, a joint three-part plan to reduce software costs was adopted. First, the DHBs will pilot an open source desktop environment, being put together by Steve Rayner, CIO of Wanganui DHB, to assess how many users it will serve adequately. Rayner plans to support two categories of user: "power users" with Microsoft desktop software, and "regular clinical users" with Novell Enterprise Desktop, OpenOffice.org and GroupWise running on Suse Linux. The pilot will seek to establish how many users there are with basic needs and whether it is possible to meet them with an entirely non-Microsoft environment, Brimacombe says. “The majority of users don’t use Access databases, for example; they wouldn’t use PowerPoint; they’re not advanced users of Excel and they probably only use about 20% of the functions of Word. They may manage quite well with OpenOffice.” There are also open source options for clinical database access clients, “but we don’t know how practical those are”, he says. Brimacombe expects one of the knotty problems will be DHBs’ extensive use of Outlook and Exchange. They will have to find some practical email alternative, he says. Another initiative is to approach suppliers of health software to see if they are willing to develop open source versions of their applications. At least one major provider of clinical systems, Orion, has told the board that it is looking seriously at supporting the open source Mozilla Firefox browser with its its clinical portal, Concerto, as an alternative to Internet Explorer, Brimacombe says. Laboratory software developer Sysmex has also indicated a willingness to explore open source solutions, he says. The third part of the DHBs' plan is to push for stronger representation on the public sector committee negotiating the details of G2006, the next iteration of the New Zealand Government’s bulk licensing agreement with Microsoft. Steve Mayo-Smith, CIO of Auckland DHB, will be the DHB CIO representative on the public sector negotiation group. He says DHBs will collectively have spent over $20 million on Microsoft licences during the three year of the previous agreement, G2003. “In particular the DHBs with a large user population end up with little choice within the G2003 agreement, and feel captured by the structure of that agreement into paying the highest charges, often for products that are not widely needed,” Mayo-Smith says. “The potential cost efficiencies of open source are also attractive to smaller DHBs who do not have the resources of the larger DHBs.” “We’re not expecting any stunning short-term breakthrough,” says Brimacombe, but the joint initiative, alongside individual DHB plans in the open source direction, could go some way to reducing Microsoft expenditure, “which is a big number for the taxpayer”. The push to reduce licensing costs has been building for many months, Brimacombe says; one catalyst came in mid-2004, when Dr Ross Boswell, clinical director of information systems for Counties Manukau and an open source enthusiast, addressed the quarterly CIO meeting. Discussion since then has built up to the point of a formal agreement among the boards. ---

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Upcoming WLUG committee meeting (1 week today)
by Meeting Reminder bot 12 Apr '05

12 Apr '05

As per the WLUG charter, please note that there is a WLUG executive committee meeting one week from today. If you wish to get an item on the agenda for this meeting, please email it to secretary(a)wlug.org.nz. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WLUG Committee Meeting To have something added to the agenda for this meeting, please email secretary @ wlug.org.nz. Provisional agenda: # Minutes from previous meeting # Matters arising # Correspondence # Treasurers report # General business

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Upgrading from RHEL 2.1 to RHEL 3.0
by Oliver Jones 12 Apr '05

12 Apr '05

Has anyone upgraded a RHEL 2.1 system to RHEL3 via up2date before? If so any pot holes I should be watchful for? I'm just getting a little sick of how out of date this RHEL2.1 box I administer is. Regards -- Oliver Jones » Roving Code Warrior oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 » www.deeperdesign.com

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Re: Linux antivirus
by David 11 Apr '05

11 Apr '05

Hi Forgot the URL for the site. Had a bit of trouble finding the Linux section myself. So for those of you prepared to risk a trip to an unknown URL. :-) http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_for_linux.html David

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Time for a new PC to run Linux on?
by Craig Box 11 Apr '05

11 Apr '05

Hi everyone, We're looking at sourcing some second hand (ex lease) PCs to sell at the installfest. While what we have on the day depends on what the supplier has in stock, current prices put a Pentium 3 733 machine with 256mb RAM and 10GB of HDD (plus CD-ROM/sound/network etc) at around $250. We will of course look forward to taking these machines and helping you set Linux up on them. I would like to get an indication of how many people might be interested in taking up an offer like this, so we have an idea of how many PCs to have on hand during the day. Regards, Craig

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Linux antivirus
by David 11 Apr '05

11 Apr '05

Hi A mention of antivirus on Linux reminded me to take another look at the Avast web site. They had a beta version a year or two ago. It seems to have made the product line up. I haven't used the Linux version yet, but the Windows version works well, and is available free for home use. You have to register but they don't spam you! I have used it for a few years and put other people on to it. You can also try there beta programs and report back on them. Regards David

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ftp on wlug server
by John R. McPherson 10 Apr '05

10 Apr '05

Does anybody on this list use ftp to hoiho (the wlug server)? If not, we will probably disable the ftp server. John

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Patents
by Lindsay 10 Apr '05

10 Apr '05

Patents The only way to fight back against these software patent advocates is to think up idea's, get together with friends and supporters and patent all your idea's. That way, when these multinational rat-bags go to patent an idea - you've already done it. Its cheaper to patent things than it is to object to the patents. So why not. Get a good patent lawyer and hoe into it. Linz

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Ubuntu Warty CDs spare - linz
by Lindsay 10 Apr '05

10 Apr '05

I still have a couple of couples of Warty Ubuntu if anyone would like these. Reply and supply postal address. Linz

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PCI Hardware Database
by Perry Lorier 10 Apr '05

10 Apr '05

In preparation for the WLUG Installfest, I've written up a quick hack to help people identify hardware, what drivers they need, where they can get those drivers and any quirks that the hardware may have (eg, defaulting to the internal connector rather than the external one, needing firmware to be flash upgraded before use, limitations of the device that may not be apparent initially etc). For example: http://www.wlug.org.nz/~perry/pci/?id=0200:10ec:8139:10ec:8139 What I'd really like is for people on this list to run a small shell script that looks at the hardware in their machine, and produces links to the hardware database. After following those links you'll be presented with a web page with the information known about that device, and the ability to leave some notes about that piece of hardware. This is especially important for people with winmodems as being able to quickly detect and find drivers for winmodems at the Installfest is critical for a stress free day. I'd like people to download the shell script at http://www.wlug.org.nz/~perry/pci/pci.sh and run it, check your hardware and make sure it's known about in hardware database, and write down any notes that you may have about it (especially things like if you had to download 3rd party drivers from somewhere, or minimum required kernel versions). This script requires a 2.6 kernel, and for /sys to be mounted (this should be true of any recently release distribution) If you can't get the piece of hardware working under Linux please leave a note to that effect so we can research it before the Installfest so we can have an answer to your problems ready so we can spend the rest of the day making your machine shine :) If any hardware is not detected by the database please email me the information about your hardware with: ( lspci -v ; sort -u /lib/modules/*/modules.pcimap ) | mail perry(a)coders.net -s "PCI database" The script is a bit raw (ok, a lot raw) at the moment, I plan on tidying it up a lot, but I'm also keen on getting information about various bits of hardware as soon as possible so we can start researching it in preparation for the Installfest. If you have suggestions, comments or even mild thoughts please email me (perry(a)coders.net) with them and I'll try and incorporate them into the programs before the Installfest.

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RE: [wlug] Top posting
by David Nicholls 09 Apr '05

09 Apr '05

From: Bnonn [mailto:bnonn(a)orcon.net.nz] Sent: Friday, 8 April 2005 3:16 pm Subject: Re: [wlug] Top posting For what it's worth, I agree, but you will find that the acceptable use policy of the list has been updated to include no html email, and no top posting, so there you have it :) Help help! I'm being repressed! ------------ Interestingly enough, I was just doing some goooooooooooooooooogle research (cheers greig!), and came across a reasonably old netiqette article which seemed to indicate that both top *and* bottom posting were acceptable so long as it was clear what you were quoting and you - as someone else put it - didn't quote an entire email (just enough to get the idea/topic). And of course interspersed is fine too. Most of the stuff ive found seems to indicate this, even an RFC written by intel in '94. Mostly it seems to by left to the preference of the user and community you are communicating with. Cheers... david

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RE: [wlug] Top posting
by David Nicholls 08 Apr '05

08 Apr '05

From: David Nicholls Sent: Friday, 8 April 2005 4:05 pm Subject: RE: [wlug] Top posting Interestingly enough, I was just doing some goooooooooooooooooogle research (cheers greig!), and came across a reasonably old netiqette article which seemed to indicate that both top *and* bottom posting were acceptable so long as it was clear what you were quoting and you - as someone else put it - didn't quote an entire email (just enough to get the idea/topic). And of course interspersed is fine too. Most of the stuff ive found seems to indicate this, even an RFC written by intel in '94. Mostly it seems to by left to the preference of the user and community you are communicating with. Cheers... David ----------------- Oh I forgot to include this: An inforative & humourous guide to writing on the internet (posting to email lists/usenet) entitled how to write - rude words are included. http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/closet/silly/Write-Like-A-Wanker.html Cheers... david

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Stephen Pearce
by Oliver Jones 08 Apr '05

08 Apr '05

Could Stephen Pearce please contact me ASAP. Regards -- Oliver Jones » Roving Code Warrior oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 » www.deeperdesign.com

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Creating PDFs - was Significant Press Release
by Graham 08 Apr '05

08 Apr '05

> ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:42:50 +1200 > From: Oliver Jones <oliver(a)deeper.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [wlug] A significant Press Release > To: Waikato Linux Users Group <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <1112769770.10434.24.camel(a)localhost.localdomain> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > >> This is a department dependent issue. In CS as many staff and >> students use >> a selection of Linux, Windows and MacOS X so most staff encourage >> students >> to submit in .pdf, .html or plain text. If staff in a given department >> only have access to a windows PC and students are only provided a >> windows >> lab, then the school may well require submissions in an Office format. > > > > Then install PDF Creator (http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/) > on those machines. It's a Open Source and very useful PDF generator > (acts as a Windows Printer). It is basically a thin-ish wrapper around > Ghostscript. > > >>> These are pet peeves of mine, as my missus can't drop IE/Windows >>> completely since she still needs them to do University work. >> > > > Regards > -- > Oliver Jones Â» Roving Code Warrior > oliver(a)deeperdesign.com Â» +64 (21) 41 2238 Â» www.deeperdesign.com A simple solution is to install OpenOffice.org. Then she can export to PDF or save in .doc for those that are still clinging to the sinking ship. My lecturers insist that assignments be presented in Word format. They may have some idea that it is all produced in OOo... Oh yes, they do, because I told them. ;) OpenOffice.org 2.0 will be out in a month or so or you can download the Beta from http://download.openoffice.org/2.0beta/index.html Cheers Yo Statement of Interest: There is some truth in the rumour that I am the New Zealand Marketing Contact for OpenOffice.org And yes I hope OpenOffice.org will be welcome at the installfest even if this writer runs his OOo 1.9.87 on SuSE 9.2 ;) (Though in my defense I will add that I have 1.1.2 running on a Warty Warthog box)

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RE: [wlug] Official announcement of 2005 Installfest
by David Nicholls 07 Apr '05

07 Apr '05

Hey, has anyone thought of inviting DSE to this? I was thinking cheap linux boxes, demosystems, and those cheap/free cds they do with oss software on them (great for those unsure about "switching") ;) Cheers... david -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, 7 April 2005 2:51 pm Subject: [wlug] Official announcement of 2005 Installfest Hi everyone, The Waikato Linux Users Group are proud to announce their second annual Linux installfest, to be held at the Crawshaw School Hall on Crawshaw Drive, Hamilton, from 10am on Saturday 7th May.

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Real world requirements
by James Clark 07 Apr '05

07 Apr '05

>>User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) >> >>I'm guess this has something to do with a draconian employer? >> >>James. > >No, it has to do with the real world requirements of my job. > >G. Such as? I'm actually interested by this. The last three years of my working career I've used primarily Linux. For a while (at my previous job) I had to KVM to a windows box periodically to use OutLook and some legacy customer management software. Now it's only Linux. Cheers, James.

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Installfest poster available
by Craig Box 07 Apr '05

07 Apr '05

If you'd like a printable installfest poster that you can put up around the place, check this out; thanks to Phil Murray: http://www.wlug.org.nz/archive/installfest/installfest-poster-2005.pdf Craig

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FW: [usg_list] Firefox JavaScript Engine Flaw Flagged
by Jodi Thomson 07 Apr '05

07 Apr '05

FYI ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------- Jodi W. Anderson, Mr (BA, A+, MCP) - Computer Systems Consultant Waikato University Library - Computing Operations Group Ph: +64 7 838 4323 email: jodi(a)waikato.ac.nz "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." > should keep an eye on this one if your using or supporting > Firefox/Mozilla.... > > from: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1782332,00.asp > > A moderately critical security flaw in the Mozilla > Foundation's Firefox Web browser could put users at risk of > information disclosure attacks, according to an advisory from > security research outfit Secunia. > > The vulnerability has been confirmed in Firefox 1.0.1 and > 1.0.2, the two latest browser releases from the open-source > foundation. It also affects the Mozilla suite, Secunia warned. > > Secunia has released an online test to allow Firefox and > Mozilla users to determine if they are affected by the bug. > > As a temporary workaround, Secunia suggests that JavaScript > support be disabled. >

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Patent grabbing could harm the Internet
by David 06 Apr '05

06 Apr '05

Just a little article I came across in the Bangkok Post I.T. Database today. The article can be found at http://www.bangkokpost.com/Database/06Apr2005_datacol57.php Wanda Sloan (Sloan Ranger) has also done a review on Netscape 8 in late beta stage which has an IE rendering engine for sites that don't render properly in the Mozilla engine, which can be found here. http://www.bangkokpost.com/Database/06Apr2005_datacol59.php Regards David Bowen COMPUTER CURRENTS Patent grabbing could harm the Internet The US Patent Office seems to be granting patents for just about anything these days James Hein It was discovered recently by the Public Patent Foundation (Pubpat) that Microsoft had filed a patent application for something very similar to IPv6, which is to be the next generation of the Internet Protocol. This kind of patent grabbing can only damage the Internet as a whole. Over the past few years some companies have been trying to get as many patents as they could registered by the US Patent Office, which seems to have been going through a period where they granted everything. They probably won't ever assert the patent, especially since they forgot to mention any of the work done by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) on the process, but like SCO's efforts it could keep a few companies in line who might be worried about Microsoft ever trying to. Pubpat at http://www.pubpat.org is a group that works to protect the public from damage caused by poor implementation of the patent system. Patent number 6101499, "Method and computer program product for automatically generating an Internet Protocol (IP) address," was issued to Microsoft in 2000. By granting these types of patents the Patent Office is essentially supporting the monopolistic nature of a company like Microsoft and at the same time reducing the chances that the next generation of standards will be good ones. In this case the MS employees listed as the inventors were on the IPv6 committee of the IETF, the real inventors of the system. Ironically, in other recent news Microsoft has demanded reform of the US patent system to improve patent quality.

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A significant Press Release
by wayne.luxton 06 Apr '05

06 Apr '05

Something just released - it will be interesting to see what the press does. www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR8077.html Wayne

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Deleting a page on Wiki
by Ian McDonald 06 Apr '05

06 Apr '05

Hi there, How do we delete pages on the Wiki or do only certain people possess this power to stop most plebs trashing our site? I was just looking at tidying up bits and pieces and can't find this info. I did RTFM and did look at the FAQ: http://www.wlug.org.nz/WikiFaq and found nothing (I will edit FAQ after I get an answer). Ian

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RE: [wlug] Mailing list etiquette (was Re: Sudo)
by Gund Wehsling 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

I will be removing my self from this mailing list today. The amount of junk has now exceeded the amount of value. Regards Gund ________________________________ From: Daniel Lawson [mailto:daniel(a)meta.net.nz] Sent: Tue 5/04/2005 11:58 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [wlug] Mailing list etiquette (was Re: Sudo) >>Also, many people read mailing lists in digest form. HTML (and other >>formats) tend to break in digest mode. > > > I hope you won't take offense, but this seems like the only good reason > to me. Surely, in the year 2005, when the HTML 4 spec has been around > for eight years and has been commonly used to style emails for not much > less time than that, it is reasonable to assume that any mail reader can > parse it? No, it's not reasonable at all. Especially not for a mailing list which will have a high rate of people using command line only mail clients, or perhaps self-written mail clients. And people using telnet to read mail. It will happen, if only because it's *this* group of people. > From a purist point of view, I agree that emails should be in plain > text. The reason I style them is because I like them to look pretty for So do it? > less computer-savvy types who I regularly email, who don't know how to > style things on their end. Additionally, there are some things that > plain text simply won't do, and which I do occasionally use (lists being > one). I can do lists very easily in plain text: * This is an example of a list * This is a second entry in a list, which has a longer line which I format approrpriately. * And here we have a third entry in a list * Look, I can do sublists too! > I'm not meaning to stir or be a pest; I just don't understand why any > mail client in use today would not support HTML; or why people would > turn it off? Surely, unless you're using OE, security isn't a problem. > People seem to manage browsing the web without issues, and that's a far > less controlled and predictable environment than email. Just because *you* use a mail client that supports HTML emails, does not mean every one *else* does. As I've said, this is mitigated by configuring your client to send an HTML block and a plain text block, however your client was not originally configured to do this, which is *probably* what prompted the "fix your client" thing anyway. > So, as I asked before with my sudo question, what am I missing? Are > people just pig-headed snobs who like to feel wronged and stand out as > martyrs for the Old School? HTML emails are horrible, plain and simple. All it takes is getting mail from someone using Incredimail for you to see the truth in this statement. _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Re: [wlug] SMB question
by Michael Honeyfield 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

> > Have you considered using pscp from > > http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ > > I have found the putty suite to be very useful under windows and doing > > an scp transfer should get around any possible issues with samba and > > at least narrow down the possible cause of the problem if it still > > fails. > > On a side note, pscp is god awful slow - feels like half the speed of Linux > scp, and of course these are both slower than smb due to the encryption > overhead. Useful, sure, but very slow. WinSCP is no better as it uses > PuTTY's encryption code. > Still FTP (vsftpd is nice) is an option and one I use on my samba server for big transfers... dunno why, but samba is slow to transfer anything over 1GB is a single file or a collection of smaller files. Mike

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SMB question
by Raymond Burgess 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

I am running a machine with RH 7.1, samba-2.0.10 I moving some large files from a Windows XP machine to the large amount of diskspace that is available ont he Linux machine. Files that are larger than 4GB fail to copy. Once the progress reaches 4GB windows prompts you if you wish to overright the exisiting file. I am already planning on installing a newer release on the linux box, probably Fedora Code 3 (or 4, as It will probably be out by the time I get around to it). I would like to know if any of you have successfully copied files larger than 4GB from a Windows machine to a recent build on samba. I'm not sure if it's Samba, Windows XP or the SMB protocol that is limited at 4GB. I realy don't care either, but I would like to know if this will work, it might motivate me to upgrade a little faster ;-) Anyone with FC3 able to confirm that this has worked. Raymond

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Parliamentary Questions
by Greig McGill 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

Hi all, After Rodney Hide spoke to us last year, he suggested that our most effective tool for advocacy would be to formulate a list of parliamentary questions. A good explanation of the usefulness of these can be found here: http://www.act.org.nz/question.jsp Mr. Hide has offered to put our questions forward, but at the moment they are a tad incoherent. Could we have some keen volunteers to edit http://www.wlug.org.nz/ParliamentaryQuestions? Be brutal. Don't worry about retaining comments - they are retained in the wiki's revision history. I'd really like to submit these in "ready to ask" form to Mr. Hide by the end of this month. Please note: The WLUG has no political affiliation with ACT or any other political party, but we know a useful tool when we see one. :) Please don't submit these questions yourself, as we would like them to all be submitted together from a single point of contact to maximise their efficiency. Thanks, Greig McGill El Presidente.

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Sudo
by Bnonn 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

Hi everyone. I'm wondering if someone can explain the rationale behind sudo. Ubuntu uses sudo by default, rather than having normal root access, although you can use root access if you wish. This is supposedly done with security in mind, but I don't see how it makes things more secure. It seems to me that allowing a user to execute commands which require root privileges, without having the root password, is really dangerous. For example, logged in as bnonn I can execute: $ sudo passwd root And change the root password. This doesn't seem secure to me! What am I missing? Regards Bnonn

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Re: [wlug] SMB question
by Michael Honeyfield 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

> I am running a machine with RH 7.1, samba-2.0.10 > > I moving some large files from a Windows XP machine to the large amount > of diskspace that is available ont he Linux machine. > > Files that are larger than 4GB fail to copy. Once the progress reaches > 4GB windows prompts you if you wish to overright the exisiting file. > > I am already planning on installing a newer release on the linux box, > probably Fedora Code 3 (or 4, as It will probably be out by the time I > get around to it). > > I would like to know if any of you have successfully copied files larger > than 4GB from a Windows machine to a recent build on samba. I'm not > sure if it's Samba, Windows XP or the SMB protocol that is limited at > 4GB. I realy don't care either, but I would like to know if this will > work, it might motivate me to upgrade a little faster ;-) > > Anyone with FC3 able to confirm that this has worked. > Possible some sort of file size limit.. not sure. Is it possible to setup a ftp server and copy them off? Mike

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RE: [wlug] Mailing list etiquette (was Re: Sudo)
by David Hallett 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

At 15:27 5/04/2005, you wrote: >I will be removing my self from this mailing list today. >The amount of junk has now exceeded the amount of value. > >Regards, Gund Hi Gund, I don't appreciate receiving this kind of junk from mailing lists. Please stop sending it to this list. Thanks, David

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Mailing list etiquette (was Re: Sudo)
by Daniel Lawson 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

> > >I'm happy to alter my mailer to observe the netiquette you speak of. I'm >afraid I wasn't aware of it. What is the reason behind it, may I ask? > > What is the reason behind not posting an HTML only email to a mailing list? It's often extended to "Don't post in HTML at all", for a variety of reasons, some of which might be weighted more highly in this case due to the nature of this particular list. When you post in HTML or RTF, or to spell it out clearly, in anything that isn't plain ASCII or ISO-8859, you make it significantly harder for people whose mailers don't understand the format you use to read your email. While you can feel free to inconvenience your friends as much as you like, you should not assume that everyone on a mailinglist will have the ability to read whatever non-basic format you post in. Now, you might argue that "all modern email clients support HTML, so why can't I use it?". Quite simply, not everyone runs an email client that supports HTML. Or they've disabled it. I'd also suggest that on a LUG mailing list especially, the proportion of users with email clients that will not parse HTML is considerably higher than on your typical mailing list. If someone does have a client that doesn't have HTML read support, or if they have disabled it, they end up having to read the raw HTML to read your post. Yes, I can parse HTML. No, I don't want to unless I'm developing a webpage. I'll skip an HTML only email sooner than read it, especially with the cluttered HTML most email clients generate. This is mitigated somewhat by sending HTML and plain blocks, but you don't really gain much from HTML emails. Also, many people read mailing lists in digest form. HTML (and other formats) tend to break in digest mode. Basically, when posting to a mailing list, you're taking part in a community of peers. By sending HTML only emails, you're doing something equivalent to interrupting people's conversations in loud Swahili. I have to say here that I use thunderbird, which seems to like sending in HTML and plain by default, and will reply to HTML in HTML and plain by default. This isn't my preferred choice! > > >> Daniel Lawson wrote: >> > > >>>> As humourous as this thread is, HTML mails generally are discouraged >>>> to mailing lists, as a form of netiquette. If you send both HTML and >>>> plain text, then at least a sensible reader will only show plain text >>>> in appropriate circumstances, however it's still not preferred. If you >>>> can't make your mailer send both html and plaintext, then I'd go with >>>> the grandparent's advice of "Fix your mailer" >> >>

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Re: [wlug] Mailing list etiquette (was Re: Sudo)
by Michael Honeyfield 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

> > I have to say here that I use thunderbird, which seems to like sending > > in HTML and plain by default, and will reply to HTML in HTML and plain > > by default. This isn't my preferred choice! > > > Ditto. I've even set the plain text option hard in my prefs file, it > just refuses. :( > Any Thunderbird gurus out there that know how to fix this? I've > followed the instructions at: > > http://kb.mozillazine.org/Thunderbird_:_FAQs_:_Using_Plain_Text > Not only is there the plain vs html text emails, there is also the way in which you post. NZOSS tries to use a post at the bottom of each email, making the thread logical to read, snipping where needed if the thread becomes too long. This is probmatic for those that use Outlook, for example, since outlook will post to the top of the email.. I have a link to mailing list etiquette, but cant find it atm. Mike

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Re: wlug Digest, Vol 166, Issue 8
by d_king＠xtra.co.nz 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

On 5 Apr 2005 at 11:59, wlug-request(a)list.waikato.ac.nz wrote: > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:41:56 +1200 > From: Bnonn <bnonn(a)orcon.net.nz> > > I'm not meaning to stir or be a pest; I just don't understand why any > mail client in use today would not support HTML; or why people would > turn it off? Surely, unless you're using OE, security isn't a problem. Ummm, you're missing several other security issues. An example would be the exploit that is available via GIF images. My modern eMail reader (copyright 2004) doesn't display images that aren't included in the eMail as an attachment. This is a security feature. But, my eMail program is free, and is written by a NZ'er > People seem to manage browsing the web without issues, and that's a far > less controlled and predictable environment than email. That all depends on which web browser you use......but that's a seperate flame war. --- David G King : d_king(a)xtra.co.nz zl1dgk(a)nzart.org.nz ZL1DGK http://dking.gen.nz http://freet.blogspot.com

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Gov.uk backs open source drive
by Jodi Thomson 04 Apr '05

04 Apr '05

The Government has funded a ground-breaking new venture to accelerate the use of open source software (OSS) throughout local government. Known as the Open Source Academy, the project represents one of the most significant developments yet in moves to drive up OSS adoption in government. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/04/uk_government_backs_open_source_ drive/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------- Jodi W. Anderson, Mr (BA, A+, MCP) - Computer Systems Consultant Waikato University Library - Computing Operations Group Ph: +64 7 838 4323 email: jodi(a)waikato.ac.nz "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before."

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Re: [wlug] fw: GIMP article
by Joseph Gibbs 04 Apr '05

04 Apr '05

As an aside, Photoshop users may find this useful: http://codemills.com/blog/?p=4 [Making GIMP menus more like Photoshop menus] Joseph. -----Original Message----- From: "Craig Box" <craig(a)dubculture.co.nz> To: "'Waikato Linux Users Group'" <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:22:40 +1200 Subject: [wlug] fw: GIMP article Was emailled this this morning - as I only made one edit, and am not actually the author, I thought I'd share it with the mailing list. (Another success story!) - Dear Craig, I really loved your November 2004 (update date) Gimp vs Photoshop article which I came across while googling "gimp export pdf." I didn't put two and two together (that postscript files are most easily converted to pdf) until I read your article and was staying away from The Gimp for that reason (would not export to pdf). No matter how obvious it is now, it did not occur to me until your article. So I am going to give The Gimp a try. Thanks! John White _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Re: [wlug] Curious about OSS
by Michael Honeyfield 04 Apr '05

04 Apr '05

I lead in Yoper's (www.yoper.com) development. Tho my efforts are not focused on a singular application, it is spread out across many. Does that count? Mike > Hi all, > > Just curious. Among all the emails about _using_ OSS, how many > people here _produce_ OSS? > > I'll hold my hand up -- bibliography management systems etc. at > www.sourceforge.net/projects/wikindx > and > www.sourceforge.net/projects/bibliophile > > Mark. > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

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Re: [wlug] Parliamentary Questions
by Michael Honeyfield 04 Apr '05

04 Apr '05

> While the remarks are in jest (yours and mine), it bugs me that people > seem to consider Rodney Hide to be an incompatible fit in terms of > putting our views to parliament? Why is that? Perhaps we should start > a politics thread, but it could get messy... > > Anyway, in summary - he's a liberal, so he cares about personal freedom, > and he is passionate about Open Source. How can that require loose > coupling? :) I don't think it matters which member of parliament, as long as they are willing to take our (Linux/OS community) concerns/issues etc to parliament on behalf of us. Act is not my choice when it comes to voting time, but if Act will help create parliamentry awareness, then sweet. Likewise with Greens... the more the merrier. Just my thoughts on that. Mike

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Questions in Parliament
by wayne.luxton 04 Apr '05

04 Apr '05

Hi folk In relation to questions in Parliament Nandor Tanczos Green Party Technology spokesperson would also be a good person for the job and when I looked on the Green Party website I see he already has a track record in support of open source, including questions. See www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/other6984.html www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR8077.html www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR7725.html www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR7657.html www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR7285.html He is in Hamilton a lot ( he may even live there now) His contact is nandor.tanczos(a)parliament.govt.nz phone 04 4706716 in Wellington or hamilton.office(a)greens.org.nz phone 8340299 Wayne

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fw: GIMP article
by Craig Box 03 Apr '05

03 Apr '05

Was emailled this this morning - as I only made one edit, and am not actually the author, I thought I'd share it with the mailing list. (Another success story!) - Dear Craig, I really loved your November 2004 (update date) Gimp vs Photoshop article which I came across while googling "gimp export pdf." I didn't put two and two together (that postscript files are most easily converted to pdf) until I read your article and was staying away from The Gimp for that reason (would not export to pdf). No matter how obvious it is now, it did not occur to me until your article. So I am going to give The Gimp a try. Thanks! John White

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Re: [wlug] Real world requirements
by Michael Honeyfield 03 Apr '05

03 Apr '05

> >>User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) > >> > >>I'm guess this has something to do with a draconian employer? > >> > >>James. > > > >No, it has to do with the real world requirements of my job. > > > >G. > > Such as? I'm actually interested by this. > > The last three years of my working career I've used primarily Linux. For > a while (at my previous job) I had to KVM to a windows box periodically > to use OutLook and some legacy customer management software. Now it's > only Linux. > Here at EDS Windows XP, Internet Explorer and Outlook are real world requirements.... Not everyone's work place has the luxary of using OSS for their tools and platforms. Mike

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Re: [wlug] Parliamentary Questions
by Michael Honeyfield 03 Apr '05

03 Apr '05

> Michael Honeyfield wrote: > > >Will wlug be working with NZOSS on submitting these or will wlug do it independent of them? > > > >Mike > > > > > > > > We'd like it to get done. Preferably yesterday. Hence we're taking the > initiative and doing it ourselves. Rodney Hide has kindly offered a > channel, and we'd like to take it. > > G. OK, I will take a look through the course of the day for you. Cheers Mike

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