- wlug - list.wlug.org.nz

DSE store this weekend
by Gavin Denby 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

In the absence of any replies to my prior offers, I need to know if there is a list of who is one when at DSE, or if any of us are needed at all I must decide by 4pm if I am free to take paid work this Saturday. I offered to help at DSE if required first, and will stand by that if so asked, but at 4pm my offer turns into Cinderellas pumpkin. do you have all the help you need, or have I missed some mail here. DO you want my help with this or are you ok ?? I need to respond to the AK team by 4pm today, so if a committee member handling this could comment it would really help.

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by David Nicholls 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

"WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend ...between 10am and 4pm on Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th July... ...giving away free Open Office.org and Knoppix CDs to customers who attend. We will be advertising this event in the newspaper and it would be good to include your logos if possible..." We are sending in the troups to help out :) Cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Gund Wehsling [mailto:Gund.Wehsling(a)computerland.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 14 July 2004 11:12 am Hi A quick Q from a newbie to your board. I did look elsewhere and found no info. What is happening at DSE this weekend, relative to this list, in 25 words or less ;-) Thanks Gund

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by Gund Wehsling 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

Hi A quick Q from a newbie to your board. I did look elsewhere and found no info. What is happening at DSE this weekend, relative to this list, in 25 words or less ;-) Thanks Gund -----Original Message----- From: David Nicholls [mailto:davidn(a)waikato.ac.nz] Sent: Wed 14/07/2004 09:11 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend No, in fact I took a look at the links to the products posted in an email ealier and everything is the latest version... Hot off the web it seems. Go take a look as the cds not only come with oo but mozilla and a number of other products (from what I can see all good basic needs products). Check them out. Cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 13 July 2004 8:54 pm Sounds like they can get a free one this Saturday , even though i suspect it will be ver 1.1.1 , if they use it its enough for a start. _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by David Nicholls 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

No, in fact I took a look at the links to the products posted in an email ealier and everything is the latest version... Hot off the web it seems. Go take a look as the cds not only come with oo but mozilla and a number of other products (from what I can see all good basic needs products). Check them out. Cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 13 July 2004 8:54 pm Sounds like they can get a free one this Saturday , even though i suspect it will be ver 1.1.1 , if they use it its enough for a start.

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Proxy Authentication
by Terry Cole 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

We have just set up at school a Suse 9 Linux server. Apache 2, Squid 2.5. We are trying to get Proxy Authentication via Squid working and are having problems. We have created our ACL's, etc. We have a password file and have tried Pam and NCSA. The prompt appears asking for user and password but does not accept what we put in. I think it might not be talking to the password file. Any ideas on where and what we could check? Thanks Terry Cole Rotorua, New Zealand mailto:terry(a)cole.gen.nz http://www.cole.gen.nz http://www.websnz.com

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by Lindsay Druett 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

But then again, just think of all that extra hardware you can sell. More memory... A DVD writer instead of a CD writer... Hey, instead of Office Pro 2003 Open Bus (XS 9011), why not buy a second computer ? > -----Original Message----- > From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, 13 July 2004 15:16 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] DSE store this weekend > > > Sorry Chris > > Its official, You wont be making much money on sales of > Office XP this > weekend :-) >

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by Chris Day 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

>> Sorry Chris >> Its official, You wont be making much money on sales of Office XP this >> weekend :-) >> Hopefully the hardware sales will make up for it :-) :-)

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by Chris Day 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

>From DSE's perspective, the event is still definitely on and the last I heard WLUG was keen to be present. Members of NZOSS will also be present. At DSE, Ross Hamblin and I have been coordinating stuff - in summary this Sat / Sun - 10am ~4pm. PC's will be present for you to load stuff on & were giving away OS CD's - see NZLUG or NZOSS lists for more details. Regards, Chris.. -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:06 PM To: Waikato Linux Users Group Subject: [wlug] DSE store this weekend In the absence of any replies to my prior offers, I need to know if there is a list of who is one when at DSE, or if any of us are needed at all I must decide by 4pm if I am free to take paid work this Saturday. I offered to help at DSE if required first, and will stand by that if so asked, but at 4pm my offer turns into Cinderellas pumpkin. do you have all the help you need, or have I missed some mail here. DO you want my help with this or are you ok ?? I need to respond to the AK team by 4pm today, so if a committee member handling this could comment it would really help. _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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kppp, wlan, phone modem and ? iptables
by Stephen Pearce 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

Hi And Help! Thanks for the advise re using ssh -X to run X11 remotely over a wlan. I would now like to activate the phone modem on the remote X11 server and then web browse from the laptop using the wlan. There must be some packet filtering occuring as I can log on to my isp whilist sitting at the server and ping external ip addresses and alos local (192.168.0.x addresses) i.e. local requests are somehow being caught and not forwarded over the ppp link to the isp but diverted into the lan. However if I ssh -X to the server from the laptop via the wlan then run kppp and dial the isp the connection goes thru but there must be some protocol problem as the link then collapses saying it cannot find ppp0. I presume this is all to do with packet filtering iptables and maybe ipchains .. an arcane area I do not fully understand and have yet to find a definitive howto which address the area in a way useful to my problem. I would appreciate any directions toward useful help.. Many thanks Stephen ps mozilla runs ok over the link but of course cannot access any links

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Re: Any Hints or Advice?
by David7 10 Jul '04

10 Jul '04

My thanks to all who responded. David wrote a few days ago >> I have just gone over, or come over, to Unix >> - Mandrake 10.0 they call it. It feels great. >> Are there any hints or advice for a new guy? Ari P > Learn to read documentation, including how to find it. > Not much more to answer to such a broadly stated question. D (If I were to read the documentation, I might actually get educated.) It is good advice. Unix is somewhere between an education and a way of thinking (or life), it seems. I have no specific question at present but I am going to have. My hometown was placed in the broadband zone recently, so soon I intend to move over to jetstream. I have applied to my ISP for it, and the hardware is going to be installed in my computer next week. When I do move over I just know there will be qs I can't handle. Also, accessing the web via a computer prog, preferably in Pascal rather than C, is something coming up. I don't know Perl nor Java, nor the jargon of this technique, nor where the problem overlaps Unix and wlug, nor even if it is possible in Pascal, But I won't ask these qs yet. FH > Using Linux fulltime only since last September (Gentoo), I know in a > way what you mean. I'd suggest to latch on to a very active Mandrake > forum which has a good searchable archive. D I haven't started looking for an MDK forum but it is something to do. GD > If you an get into Hamilton on a Monday night, > get along to the lug meetings. [snip] > you will build good friendships and strong networks. > Linux is more community than OS IMHO ..... And the OS really rocks. D My car is presently unreliable, but person to person contact is what I want. I want to go. The OS gives the impression of steady and stable. Several times I have had the computer on for ten hours, and it never got slower (like the old OS did) and it never froze. It is really a good feeling. LD > I strongly agree with Gavin. > Sounds like you have had a good start anyway. Not many people have > come to me saying "I have just installed (whatever) Linux on my machine > and it feels great", a lot of people have said, "I tried to get Linux > working on my machine, but I couldn't get it to work...", and a lot of > those people were IT professionals - they have got sucked in too deep > into the dark side. D I deliberately waited for Mandrake 10.0 (Official), and waited a bit more. It probably paid off. If I didn't have the specifc purpose of downloading, de-tarring, and installing a Pascal compiler, and using it to compile a prog, then I wouldn't have had an initial success and the good feeling. I suppose it is similar to the trick some people use when learning a second spoken language, say Spanish: They read a well-known English-language story or poem in Spanish. Getting the compiler up and running was a struggle but now that I have that feather in my cap, the rest should be easier and more relaxed. Bascially, I have my nice little computer back. LD > Yep, there is a steep learning curve ahead, but it's really worth it. > Open Source Software has done a lot for me than any variant of MS > Windows will ever do. D That inspires me to keep with it. LD > I'm not anti-Microsoft - but the more you get into Linux, > the more you realise why other people think Windows Sux, > furthermore you are siding them with those views. D What gets me is the gaul (sp) or the chutzpah (sp) of the co-founder of ¬. He sold something he didn't own, and that didn't really exist, to people who shouldn't have bought it. And if they had only waited a bit, none of this thingamjig would have happened. DB > Learn to search Google for your problems (unless you have paid > your $20 to be a member, then you can bug them on #wlug ;) D Google sure is an amazing library. I have used it alot for research into old texts and historical events (I write historical fiction in my spare time). I haven't paid $20. If I prove unable to get my jetstream running, and they do, it will be worth $20. GW > So, have you found yourself Pascal compilers yet? D Yes indeed. I used to use the one available on freepascal.org (and .com) so when I switched to Unix I simply went back to the same well. I had to log on as root ('su') then I could instal. I reckon 'tar' should be called 'dar', for disk archive, rather than tape archive. The Vim editor and the KWrite editor are both much better than what I am used to. And the shell (Konsole) or Terminal Program they call it, is so versatile. It didn't take me long to discover 'ls' instead of 'dir', and './' before the assembled and linked file; and forward slash instad of '#' (oh well, my keyboard doesn't want to give it). PL > We try hard to put any advice or hints into the wlug wiki. > http://www.wlug.org.nz/ > If you find some piece of information you found difficult to find, > please put it somewhere in the wiki. D This resource is very handy to know about. My thanks again to all who responded to my query. David C in Huntly, NZ, amateur Pascal progger, digest member.

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WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Ross Hamblin 10 Jul '04

10 Jul '04

Thanks to all who offered to attend and assist with this. For those who asked about timetables, we would like to have people present to offer advise and demonstrate OSS/Linux between 10am and 4pm on Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th July. As it is difficult to make extra space, we will need to use the computers on display in the store which will mean using Knoppix or similar distro which runs from CD. We will be giving away free Open Office.org and Knoppix CDs to customers who attend. We will be advertising this event in the newspaper and it would be good to include your logos if possible, please advise on this or send to me off-list. We also have facilities to photocopy A4 DLE type brochures if you provide me with a PDF or OO.o doc of your brochure we can produce them for you. Regards, Ross. Ross Hamblin DSE (NZ) Ltd.

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vnc over wireless router
by Stephen Pearce 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

Help ... I'm trying to run vncviewer on a laptop running Fedora 2 speaking to a redhat 9 server via a 802.11b wireless router .. the server connects to the router via a utp ethernet link .. the laptop via its own internal 802.11b card ..(Truemobile 1400 using ndiswrapper) .. I can ftp and telnet no problems .. I have enables vncserver on the server ... however I keep getting a connect error 111 when I try to use vncviewer to access the server ... any suggestions?/alternatives for remote access to the server X11 desktop? Thanks Stephen

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RE: [NZOSS-OpenChat] WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Chris Day 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

Further to Ross's note, a few comments: - Radio & Press will be advertising NSOSS / WLUG involvement - We will be giving away XC4031 OpenOffice.org CD http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/en/product/XC4031 or XC4034 Knoppix/Morphix Linux Dual CD Set http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/en/product/XC4034 - Linux can be installed on display Desktops or Notebooks as long as they are recovered with MFR restore CD's at the end of the weekend - just zap the boot record and our guys can do the recovery. - Other suppliers will be at this very public event so I a way, we are all on show. Bear in mind DSE's goal in supporting OpenSource is to provide consumers with a choice. We have no preference and will not be influenced when it comes to meeting customer demand. - There are some hot deals on offer so be prepared for allot of customers - be prepared for group demonstrations. - We also need to consider OSH implications so demonstrators will need to sign in. Can't think of anything else at this point - have a fantastic weekend, I'm off to try out Linux nVidia drivers... -----Original Message----- From: Ross Hamblin Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 4:03 PM To: openchat(a)nzoss.org.nz; wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: [NZOSS-OpenChat] WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend Thanks to all who offered to attend and assist with this. For those who asked about timetables, we would like to have people present to offer advise and demonstrate OSS/Linux between 10am and 4pm on Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th July. As it is difficult to make extra space, we will need to use the computers on display in the store which will mean using Knoppix or similar distro which runs from CD. We will be giving away free Open Office.org and Knoppix CDs to customers who attend. We will be advertising this event in the newspaper and it would be good to include your logos if possible, please advise on this or send to me off-list. We also have facilities to photocopy A4 DLE type brochures if you provide me with a PDF or OO.o doc of your brochure we can produce them for you. Regards, Ross. Ross Hamblin DSE (NZ) Ltd. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: openchat-unsubscribe(a)nzoss.org.nz For additional commands, e-mail: openchat-help(a)nzoss.org.nz

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Any Hints or Advice?
by David7 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Hello I have just gone over, or come over, to Unix - Mandrake 10.0 they call it. It feels great. Are there any hints or advice for a new guy? David C in Huntly, NZ, amateur Pascal progger, digest member.

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Cool things that were released today
by Craig Box 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

New NVIDIA drivers (which now work on kernels with 4k stacks) http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_1.0-6106.html Mono v1.0 http://www.mono-project.com/about/index.html Craig

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RE: [wlug] LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Chris Day 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

>>> I am still planning for this (I only heard about it when you did ;) Well, you looked like you needed a break from that router - istead of breaking it! Got the MIB sorted yet????

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RE: [wlug] LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Ross Hamblin 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Hi Daniel and WLUG, Thank you for this offer to help out. It will be good to have some LUG members there and we really appreciate your support on this. Some NZOSS members have also offered to attend, so should be an excellent opportunity to show what Linux/OSS can do. I am still planning for this (I only heard about it when you did ;) ) but expect to get back to you tomorrow afternoon as to what equipment will be available there etc. Regards, Ross. Ross Hamblin - DSE (NZ) Ltd. > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Lawson [mailto:daniel(a)meta.net.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2004 15:20 > To: Chris Day; Ross Hamblin; Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse > Computer Weekend > > > Chris, Ross. > > The Waikato Linux Users Group would like to help out at this > event. What organisation is needed between us to make this happen? > > We'd like to borrow a couple of machines you stock to install > recent versions of linux on, if that's at all possible. We > feel this would look better than having x assorted random > home pcs running linux as demonstration units. Maybe a couple > of desktops and a laptop, if that's ok? And, of course, > you'll have windows machines already for demonstrating OSS > apps for windows. > > We'll look at organising some info sheets regarding Linux > /OSS / WLUG as well. > > Regards, > > Daniel Lawson > President, > Waikato Linux Users Group > Phone: (021) 381-013 > email: daniel(a)meta.net.nz > > >

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LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Chris Day 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

DSE(NZ)Ltd would like to take our involvement with NZOSS & LUG one step further by inviting representatives to participate in our Hamilton Powerhouse Computer weekend on 17/18 July 2004. During this weekend, representatives from many of our computer suppliers will be there demonstrating computer hardware - we feel it is an opportunity for experienced NZOSS & LUG members to offer our customers advice on Open Source software options. I do not believe we are at a point where we have the room or experience to pull off a full on public install fest. But I do believe it's an opportunity to discuss with consumers what Open Source is all about, perhaps enlist new members and provide consumers with free Open Source CD's to take home and try out (we will be supplying these). I still have some internal finalising to do but I would like to see a range of computers running Open Source software and am looking to list members to help demonstrate the software running on these and hand out the CD's (and LUG/NZOSS pamphlets?) - this in-store demonstration area has yet to be finalized along with any additional needs we identify. If you are a senior member and would like to help us out, please contact ross.hamblin(a)dse.co.nz - Ross and I will be doing our best to make this event successful. Any feedback would be gratefully appreciated. I appreciate this is late notice but we are concerned with the commercial implications of broadcasting an event like this prior to it occurring. Also, I understand that some members may take offence at this message or our approach. If this is the case, then I do sincerely apologise - please bear with us as we figure out the right way to do this. Kind regards, Chris Day Senior Buyer DSE(NZ)Ltd

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firewall hell
by Glenn Ramsey 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

I'm having some trouble with the ipmasq firewall setup on my Debian box. For those that aren't familiar with how it works, the iptables commands are specified in a number of .def/.rul files in /etc/ipmasq/rules. I think these get run by run-parts when /usr/sbin/ipmasq is run. Also ipmasq gets run whenever ppp goes up or down. The default ipmasq with ppp installation firewalls the internal (masqueraded) machines but does not protect the firewall machine itself. A while back this machine got rootkitted (over a dialup link!) and at that time I discovered that when the ipmasq docs talk about it providing a firewall, they don't mean the masq machine itself. I then modified one of the the ipmasq rule scripts using some info from the wlug wiki and it all worked. Recently I was looking at trying to make the audio work in Windows Messenger[1] and discovered that my firewall was no longer working and I couldn't see any dropped packets in the logs ( which led me to think that logging wasn't enabled). I must have upgraded something, don't know what, that caused the firewall to stop working. I discovered that there are some default scripts that provide what I want in the ipmasq examples and installed those. Now I'm firewalled but the firewall drops DNS forwards from my internal bind so things don't work so well. However if I do: $/etc/init.d/ipmasq stop $/etc/init.d/ipmasq start after dialing in then it works. What should I be looking for to diagnose the problem? As far I can tell, which admittedly is not very far, the configuration is fine and is essentially the default install with only changes made to the config definitions to specify which ports to block. Any advice appreciated. g [1] If anyone has done that, any advice would be appreciated on that too. -- Glenn Ramsey <glenn(a)componic.co.nz> 07 8627077 http://www.componic.co.nz

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RE: [wlug] Any Hints or Advice?
by Lindsay Druett 07 Jul '04

07 Jul '04

I strongly agree with Gavin. Sounds like you have had a good start anyway. Not many people have come me saying "I have just installed (whatever) Linux on my machine and it feels great", a lot of people have said, "I tried to get Linux working on my machine, but I couldn't get it to work...", and a lot of those people were IT professionals - they have got sucked in too deep into the dark side. Yep, there is a steep learning curve ahead, but it's really worth it. Open Source Software has done a lot for me than any variant of MS Windows will ever do. I'm not anti-Microsoft - but the more you get into Linux, the more you realise why other people think Windows Sux, furthermore you are siding them with those views. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2004 08:30 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] Any Hints or Advice? > > > If you an get into Hamilton on a Monday night, (Sadly I cant > ) get along > to the lug meetings. > > At the beginning a lot goes over your head, just let it go, > meeting the > people and the tips you pick up by watching them will make your life > easier, you will learn a lot, and you will build good friendships and > strong networks. Linux is more community than OS IMHO ..... > And the OS > really rocks. > > Mandrake is good place to start in Linux, but most of the > local lug use > Fedora, Although there are a lot of die hard debian fans too. > I'm on a > slackware derivative nowadays, but we all learn from each > other and help > each other. > > Also Google is a very good search engine for linux users. > > > David7 wrote: > > >Hello > > > >I have just gone over, or come over, to Unix - Mandrake 10.0 > they call it. It > >feels great. > >Are there any hints or advice for a new guy? > > > >David C in Huntly, NZ, > > amateur Pascal progger, digest member. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > >Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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[NZOSS-OpenChat] LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton PowerhouseComputer Weekend
by Craig Box 06 Jul '04

06 Jul '04

Mark Foster writes... > I appreciate this is late notice but we are concerned with the > commercial implications of broadcasting an event like this prior to it > occurring. Also, I understand that some members may take offence at > this message or our approach. If this is the case, then I do sincerely > apologise - please bear with us as we figure out the right way to do > this. > Hi Chris, Ross et al. I personally have no issues whatsoever with this being posted either on NZLUG or the NZOSS Openchat list. I'd also be quite happy to trek down to Hamilton and wave the flag, for one of the two days of that weekend. Also happy to help coordinate if any Aucklanders want to carpool, etc, and can bring my Laptop (a DSE Product funnily enough) running Knoppix-from-CD (its not HD installed, sadly). Likewise theres always my Windows XP Install running Mozilla Firefox as its default browser, Thunderbird for Email and other open source applications for media, etc etc... Ross based on the number of volunteers you get and which day or days they prefer to attend, let me know when suits. Thanks for the opportunity to give Linux and OSS a plug :-) Mark.

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Dumping old stuff
by Daniel Lawson 04 Jul '04

04 Jul '04

As the topic says - I won't add glamour to this :) I've got a pile of old books and software that have sat on my shelves, unused, for a long time. For various reason I don't think they are suitable for donation to the WLUG library, nor do I think anyone will read them anyway. If anyone wants any of the list below, contact me offlist. Also, if anyone has any bright ideas regarding how I can get rid of this in a way that allows other people to make use of it if possible, please let me know. I hate dumping stuff - even though much of this has little value at all any more :). I've listed the books and delphi on trademe, but if you want them let me know. I doubt they'll move quick. It's all going to the dump if I don't get any other suggestions (I have no idea if second hand stores would even touch these...) Books: Sams MS SQL Server DBA Survival Guide Hitch-hikers guide to Visual Basic and SQL Access 97 Unleashed Informix Unleashed Using Sybase Access 2 Developer's Guide Office 97 Unleashed Mastering Delphi Software: Delphi 5 Professional PC Handyman Games: Asheron's Call Reach for the Skies (5.25") Cannon Fodder Command & Conquer - Red Alert (CD) Spelljammer - Pirates of Realmspace (5.25") Populous II and Powermonger Sowrd of Aragon (5.25" i think) Warlords II Diablo and Hellfire expansion pack. Hardware: USB Webcam, win98 only (will kill win2k/xp), some support in linux last i looked.

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logging in ipmasq
by Glenn Ramsey 04 Jul '04

04 Jul '04

Hi, Anyone know how to turn on logging in ipmasq in Debian? The docs in /usr/share/doc/ipmasq do not mention it. g -- Glenn Ramsey <glenn(a)componic.co.nz> 07 8627077 http://www.componic.co.nz

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IBM and the JVM
by s swami 03 Jul '04

03 Jul '04

Hi guys, here is text of what I'll put up somewhere. Thought I'd get some feedback here first. It's meant to piss IBM supporters off -- don't take it personally. I make some unsubstantiated claims but wtf everybody else is :-) Cheers, Sid --------------------------------------------------------------------- In an open letter to Sun, http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-openlet IBM offers to work with Sun on an open-source implementation of the Java Virtual Machine (JVM). Here is how the letter came about. o IBM had/have been bleating for a while that Sun should open-source the Sun JVM. o Some open source enthusiasts had/have been doing the same - i.e. bleating*. o Analysts and journalists just repeat what the different factions say. Some seem to conflate the language, the virtual machine and the runtime libraries. It was after an insistent journalist (enraptured by IBM's self-professed commitment to an "open-source Java") repeated the call (at a public event) that someone from Sun asked: why does IBM not open-source its own version of the JVM? i.e. why are the buggers haranguing Sun? IBM jumped at this with the open letter mentioned above. In short: they will gladly work with Sun on a common open-source implementation of a JVM if both Sun and IBM offered resources including source code (to their respective JVMs). Excuse me IBM, who asked you to open-source Sun's JVM? I'd like you to open-source /yours/ please. IBM have been veritably shouting their desire for an open source JVM but they are not willing to open source their own implementation. They will if Sun does the same (that's what it boils down to). This smacks of hypocrisy at least and hidden agendas. Why bring Sun into it? Why not BEA or Oracle or ... the open source community? The strength of the present arrangement is that the specs are there for all to see, vendors implement their own JVMs (and they have) and the consumer chooses one or more implementations based on what he requires and his estimation of the competing JVMs. This leads to a thriving industry with high quality JVMs. It gives me choice and I like that. Great. So what's the problem? Simple: IBM's JVM just can't compete with Sun's. Both of them are free for us to download and use. Try them yourself. Yep, IBM can't even give its JVM away. Whose JVM do you have running on your machine? Now Sun's JVM is a beautiful thing! And it is Sun's JVM that will take hardware customers from IBM to Sun. For the same money, Sun's JVM running on Solaris and Sun hardware will outperform the corresponding offering from IBM -- I reckon. And IBM knows it too. My conclusion: IBM are telling fibs, really obvious ones too. Hey whattup IBM? Cat got ya source? ------------------------------------------------------------------- * we have lots of sheep in New Zealand.

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Re: [wlug] Cool things that were released today [OT]
by Matthew Browne (DSL HN) 02 Jul '04

02 Jul '04

At 13:03 2/07/2004, Oliver Jones wrote: >Yep. I completely agree. My stock answer to people who say they want a >computer to surf and do email with I say "buy a Mac". Problem is they >don't like the fact that a Mac is $1000 more expensive than a Windows >box. You can buy a brand new Windows box for $500? Where can I get one... http://store.apple.co.nz/public/product/group.php?pgid=AP13

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