- wlug - list.wlug.org.nz

RE: [wlug] OFF-TOPIC NZADSL Petition
by DrWho? 10 Sep '03

10 Sep '03

My 1cent worth. I belive, rather then up the bandwidth, telecom should allow ISPs to operate thier own full rate portals for ftp. This will be off more benifit then upping regular bandwidth! At 16:42 9/09/2003 +1200, you wrote: > >Does anyone here really believe that TNZ gives a toss. > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Andrew Thrift @ Millennium >> [mailto:andrew(a)millenniumtechnology.co.nz] >> Sent: Tuesday, 9 September 2003 15:50 >> To: wlug >> Subject: [wlug] OFF-TOPIC NZADSL Petition >> >> >> There is a petition online to Telecom New Zealand regarding their >> current crappy data plans. >> >> It can be signed at: >> >> http://www.PetitionOnline.com/nzadsl/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> wlug mailing list >> wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >> http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlu> g >> >> >_______________________________________________ >wlug mailing list >wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > >

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Market Day
by Paul Jonassen 09 Sep '03

09 Sep '03

Who: Hamilton Amateur Radio Club. Date: Saturday 20th September. Location: Main hall, Claudelands Showgrounds, Hamilton. Time: 10am Public entry. (FREE!) Contents: Electronics, Computers, Communications, Food, X, ?. Email me off list if you would like vendor information. L8R jono!!

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RE: [wlug] OFF-TOPIC NZADSL Petition
by Lindsay Druett 09 Sep '03

09 Sep '03

Does anyone here really believe that TNZ gives a toss. > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Thrift @ Millennium > [mailto:andrew(a)millenniumtechnology.co.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, 9 September 2003 15:50 > To: wlug > Subject: [wlug] OFF-TOPIC NZADSL Petition > > > There is a petition online to Telecom New Zealand regarding their > current crappy data plans. > > It can be signed at: > > http://www.PetitionOnline.com/nzadsl/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list > wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlu> g > >

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OFF-TOPIC NZADSL Petition
by Andrew Thrift ＠ Millennium 09 Sep '03

09 Sep '03

There is a petition online to Telecom New Zealand regarding their current crappy data plans. It can be signed at: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/nzadsl/

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Waikato University Linux
by Edward Murrell 09 Sep '03

09 Sep '03

I was discussing the use of Linux at uni today. One of the main points I was asked to defend was essentially; "Why does Linux sucks so much?" This persons experience with Linux had pretty much centred round the R block, and G basement computers at uni - and I can't say I disagree with her. As far as I can make out, those computers are running some ancient version of Slackware (I think?) with GNOME 1.4, and KDE2. Most of the other WMs seem to be broken. Fonts are abysmal, and the default browser is Netscape 4. The CDRom/fstab is only correctly setup on some of the machines. Frankly, it's embarrassing. While I can understand that the uni staff don't exactly have time to be reinstalling Linux every six months, and that stability is very important, this is the same config that I was using when I attempted second year for the first time back in 2001. >From a brief poke around the /proc/ fs, it's clear the machines are easily capable of running something far more up to date. I would really like to see something along the lines of GNOME 2.X, KDE3, a fairly recent version of say Mozilla, Galeon, or Konqueror, and for the love of god, decent fonts. Given the varsity centric nature of the WLUG, I'm hoping someone can tell me why the Linux machines are in such as sad state. Do the admins not care? Or have they simply forgotten what's running there. Regards Edward

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RE: [wlug] Waikato University Linux
by Jodi Thomson 08 Sep '03

08 Sep '03

If I recall correctly SCMS is investigating a move from Slackware to a different distro due to its fading support. However that's not something to take lightly, and the number of different services that SCMS support staff have to deal with means a change won't be for a while yet. Plus there's the old saying to bear in mind: if it works and ain't broke - leave it alone Jodi ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- Jodi W. Anderson, Mr (BA, A+, MCP) - Computer Systems Consultant Waikato University Library - Computing Operations Group Ph: +64 7 838 4323 email: jodi(a)waikato.ac.nz "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." > -----Original Message----- > From: Kim Shepherd [mailto:kims(a)waikato.ac.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, 9 September 2003 10:16 a.m. > To: wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: [wlug] Waikato University Linux > > > On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 08:31:01PM +1200, Edward Murrell wrote: > > I was discussing the use of Linux at uni today. One of the > main points > > I was asked to defend was essentially; "Why does Linux > sucks so much?" > > > > This persons experience with Linux had pretty much centred > round the R > > block, and G basement computers at uni - and I can't say I disagree > > with her. As far as I can make out, those computers are > running some > > ancient version of Slackware (I think?) with GNOME 1.4, and > KDE2. Most > > of the other WMs seem to be broken. Fonts are abysmal, and > the default > > browser is Netscape 4. The CDRom/fstab is only correctly > setup on some > > of the machines. > > > > Frankly, it's embarrassing. While I can understand that the > uni staff > > don't exactly have time to be reinstalling Linux every six > months, and > > that stability is very important, this is the same config > that I was > > using when I attempted second year for the first time back in 2001. > > > > >From a brief poke around the /proc/ fs, it's clear the machines are > > easily capable of running something far more up to date. I would > > really like to see something along the lines of GNOME 2.X, KDE3, a > > fairly recent version of say Mozilla, Galeon, or Konqueror, and for > > the love of god, decent fonts. > > > > Given the varsity centric nature of the WLUG, I'm hoping > someone can > > tell me why the Linux machines are in such as sad state. Do > the admins > > not care? Or have they simply forgotten what's running there. > > > > Regards > > Edward > > Do the people raising these issues have student home > directories? Do they browse the web using their student > account? Do they print to charged print queues? Do they ever > use www.waikato.ac.nz? Or igate? Do they use University mailing lists? > > There are a myriad of other services running solely on Linux, > of course.. these are just the ones that I can think of right now. > > Then again, you're probably talking about SCMS lab PCs, which > I've never seen, and SCMS don't use a bunch of our services anyway. > > -k. > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list > wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlu> g > >

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RE: [wlug] Waikato University Linux
by Matthew Browne (DSL HN) 08 Sep '03

08 Sep '03

> From: Edward Murrell [mailto:edward(a)murrell.co.nz] > > I was discussing the use of Linux at uni today. One of the > main points I > was asked to defend was essentially; "Why does Linux sucks so much?" > > This persons experience with Linux had pretty much centred round the > R block, and G basement computers at uni - and I can't say I disagree > with her. As far as I can make out, those computers are running some > ancient version of Slackware (I think?) with GNOME 1.4, and KDE2. Most > of the other WMs seem to be broken. > Fonts are abysmal, and the default browser is Netscape 4. The > CDRom/fstab is only correctly setup on some of the machines. I've talked about this problem with others a number of times. It's been ages since I was at uni now but when I was there all of the machines were well behind in their operating systems. Not just Linux machines but the Macs and Windows boxes too (well the few windows boxes I saw anyway). Whenever someone put down another OS based purely on using uni computers I just used to say to them "If you had an <insert their favourite OS here> machine set up the way they are at uni would you like to use that?". Nobody ever said yes. Matt Browne

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.geek.nz - last day to vote
by nzserver 08 Sep '03

08 Sep '03

good thing it got brought in :) http://www.domainname.geek.nz > I haven't heard anything yet, no doubt Dean Pemberton will tell us in > the first instance when he can. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat at ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2003 10:09 > To: wlug > Subject: Re: [wlug] FW: [nznog] .geek.nz - last day to vote > > > .. Any results yet ???????????????? > > > On Tue, 2003-03-04 at 12:00, Lindsay Druett wrote: > > Hi There, > > > > We need your support here... > > If you want a .geek.nz domain, vote yes. > > > > Word has it that heaps of people have voted "no", we need your > > support. >

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simple CAD program
by Glenn Ramsey 08 Sep '03

08 Sep '03

Hi, I need to annotate some pictures with dimension lines showing angles. Does anyone know if there is a Linux 2D CAD program that will let me load a jpg image and draw dimension lines on it? I know there are lots of programs of this type around but as yet I haven't come across one that lets me do this. g -- Glenn Ramsey <glenn(a)componic.co.nz> 07 8627077 http://www.componic.co.nz

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RE: [wlug] Domain squatting (was re: .geek.nz - last day to vote)
by Lindsay Druett 08 Sep '03

08 Sep '03

Ah come on, it's like having having personalised plates on your car... Do I have personalised plates on my car ? Of course not, but if I waited a day, I could have got BGPxxx (instead of BGNxxx) then I would have had personalised number plates at no extra cost... Seriously, domain names now have a huge slice of action in the advertising industry, more and more business are branding themselves with their domain name. At the end of the day, you just have to honestly ask yourself, "Why did we all want .geek.nz ?..." > -----Original Message----- > From: crb6-forwarding > Sent: Monday, 8 September 2003 14:26 > To: 'wlug' > Subject: [wlug] Domain squatting (was re: .geek.nz - last day to vote) > > > > good thing it got brought in :) > > > > http://www.domainname.geek.nz > > I don't know about you, but I really hate it when domain > names are treated like goods to be bought to speculate on. > Especially for those 'metasearch sites' that exist on domain > names that people are likely to visit. > http://www.bootdisks.com/ is today's example of this. You really meant to visit 'bootdisk.com'. I'd really hope that the people who run domainname.geek.nz are not encouraging this kind of practise, and that all the .geek.nz domains that were bought are going to go to good use, not be sold off at a profit to someone who really wanted it but wasn't quick enough. Craig _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Mailman/Pipermail Email Address Obsfucation
by Matt Brown 07 Sep '03

07 Sep '03

Hi, Does anybody her have experience in obsfucating email addresses in list archives to prevent spam harvesting using pipermail/mailman. The standard mailman privacy options only seem to apply to mailman configuration / list information pages not the archives which are generated by pipermail, and pipermail seems to be extinct. I would like all email addresses in the archives to appear as From: Matt Brown <matt(a)m...> rather than From: Matt Brown <matt(a)myrealdomain.com> Is anybody able to offer a solution to this problem? Regards -- Matt Brown matt(a)mattb.net.nz

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RE: [wlug] Job Vacancy - Computer Engineer
by Lindsay Druett 01 Sep '03

01 Sep '03

Congratulations on getting your new job, I hope it works out for you. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Thrift @ Millennium [mailto:andrew(a)millenniumtechnology.co.nz] Sent: Thursday, 28 August 2003 14:24 To: wlug Subject: [wlug] Job Vacancy - Computer Engineer I am leaving Millennium to take up a position as IT Manager for a Napier based investments group. Due to this there is a vacancy here for someone with the following experience: * Windows NT/2000 Server * Linux (RedHat/Gentoo) * Hardware fault diagnosis and repair * Network design * Current drivers licence You must also have good people skills as this position invloves dealing directly with the customer. If you are interested, send your curriculum vitae to: grant(a)millenniumtechnology.co.nz Regards, Andrew Thrift

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help with backup options
by Jodi Thomson 01 Sep '03

01 Sep '03

Hi folks I've got Compaq ML370 G3 here running RedHat 8.0. I need to put a tape backup unit into it and have narrowed it down to two options 1) HP storage works SDLT 220 Tape Drive 2) HP storage works Ultrium 230 Tape Drive I want something that is easy to run using shell scripting for backups and of course is easy to restore. Both are supported by RH8.0 however I have never spec'd a unit for linux before. Has anyone used either Ultrium or SDLT with Linux and can let me know how they got on? Cheers Jodi ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- Jodi W. Anderson, Mr (BA, A+, MCP) - Computer Systems Consultant Waikato University Library - Computing Operations Group Ph: +64 7 838 4323 email: jodi(a)waikato.ac.nz "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before."

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KDE: how to remove the stupid dragon.
by Glyn Webster 31 Aug '03

31 Aug '03

Does anyone know how to remove that stupid bloody dragon in bib that decorates KDE's logout window? "Konqi" I think it's is called. * I've used 'find' to scan my file system for PNG or JPEG files with "Konqi" in their names but it doesn't seem that simple -- all I found was an ominous image of a KDE cogwheel with a bomb in it. * I found an image that looked just like the one I wanted to removed: "/usr/share/apps/kdeui/pics/aboutkde.png". I replaced that with a transparent PNG, but that didn't help either. (BTW: No. "Use Gnome" wasn't the answer I was after.) -- Glyn Webster ~ Simplicity Himself. ~ glyn(a)wave.co.nz ~ http://tiddly-pom.com

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KDE: how to remove the stupid dragon: HOORAY!
by Glyn Webster 31 Aug '03

31 Aug '03

There are various "kde-sdscreen" RPM's floating around to change the shutdown window image. All they do is replace "shutdownkonq.png". The RPM I downloaded would have put it here: /usr/X11R6/share/apps/ksmserver/pics/shutdownkonq.png but on Mandrake I found the little bastard here: /usr/share/apps/ksmserver/pics/shutdownkonq.png And I overwrote him with a 1x1 pixel transparent PNG. It worked! P.S. while googling I found this in the mailing list archive of another LUG: "My deskpot completely freezed, couldn't even do Ctrl+Alt+Del. so I turn the power off." "Deskpot". I'm sure there's a novel user interface idea in there somewhere. -- Glyn Webster ~ Simplicity Himself. ~ glyn(a)wave.co.nz ~ http://tiddly-pom.com

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Job Vacancy - Computer Engineer
by Andrew Thrift ＠ Millennium 28 Aug '03

28 Aug '03

I am leaving Millennium to take up a position as IT Manager for a Napier based investments group. Due to this there is a vacancy here for someone with the following experience: * Windows NT/2000 Server * Linux (RedHat/Gentoo) * Hardware fault diagnosis and repair * Network design * Current drivers licence You must also have good people skills as this position invloves dealing directly with the customer. If you are interested, send your curriculum vitae to: grant(a)millenniumtechnology.co.nz Regards, Andrew Thrift

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Re: Re: [wlug] more i8500 / lvm / new kernel
by Stephen Pearce 27 Aug '03

27 Aug '03

Hi Well it doesn't work with root=LABEL=/ either .. though the custom kernel (compiled from a rh rpm source file does .. indicating to me some problem in the way I compiled the linux2.6.0test4 code ... I compiled in lvm support .. though did not include raid support .. I presume one can take the latest kernel disto from kernel.org and put it in usr/src and compile and install it (it upgrades grub automatically to include the new kernel as a boot option) and this is transparent to the red hat distro. or are there rh specific switches? re /dev/hda5 possibility this is not addressed in the custom installation which does run .. and the boot and kernel directories shopuld be the same for the new kernel. Thanks Stephen > > root (hd0,2) > > # kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.0-test4 ro root=LABEL=/ hdc=ide-scsi > > kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.0-test4 ro root=/dev/hda3 hdc=ide-scsi > > initrd /boot/initrd-2.6.0-test4.img > > > You have /dev/hda3 here. What does it do with root=LABEL=/ ? > > > > /dev/hda3 1251 1301 409657+ 83 Linux > > /dev/hda4 1302 7296 48154837+ f Win95 Ext'd (LBA) > > /dev/hda5 1302 3851 20482843+ 8e Linux LVM > > > It seems /dev/hda3 is your /boot not your root drive. Perhaps the entry > above should be /dev/hda5? > > Cheers > > Philip Murray - Systems Engineer > webmaster(a)open2view.com - Open2view.com > www.open2view.com > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list > wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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Free Sun to a good home
by Matt Purvis 26 Aug '03

26 Aug '03

Hi all, I have a freebie if any one wants it: a Sun "X" 3/60. It comes with a large colour monitor, keyboard & old-school optical mouse (+ two of those special optical mouse pads). I also have a Sun GDM-1662B monitor that I used to use on my SPARCstations until I discovered the wonderful Sun Console Converter which lets you use a VGA screen and PS/2 keyboard and mouse instead! I might have a spare SPARCstation keyboard and mouse too if anyone needs them. Off-topic but I also have an RCA-brand NTSC television to give away. It runs on 110V and has F-connector RF input only (no A/V inputs sorry). I repeat, this is all FREE as I am moving to the South Island and must part with my beloved junk. I can offer free delivery any where in Hamilton (or between Hamilton and Waihi). Please reply off-list only. You can contact me via email or sms/phone on 021 399 844. Cheers, Matt

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more i8500 / lvm / new kernel
by Stephen Pearce 26 Aug '03

26 Aug '03

Further to my recent post enclosed is my grub.conf and a list of the partitions on my disk ... the custom kernel ..2nd option loads fine but the new 2.6 kernel crashes when it tries to access root / .. despite the entry being pretty well identical to that of the custom kernel. Any comments appreciated Stephen # grub.conf generated by anaconda # # Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this file # NOTICE: You do not have a /boot partition. This means that # all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /, eg. # root (hd0,2) # kernel /boot/vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/hda3 # initrd /boot/initrd-version.img #boot=/dev/hda default=1 timeout=5 splashimage=(hd0,2)/boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz title Red Hat Linux (2.6.0-test4) root (hd0,2) # kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.0-test4 ro root=LABEL=/ hdc=ide-scsi kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.0-test4 ro root=/dev/hda3 hdc=ide-scsi initrd /boot/initrd-2.6.0-test4.img title Red Hat Linux (2.4.20-19.9.acpi.5custom) root (hd0,2) kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.20-19.9.acpi.5custom ro root=LABEL=/ hdc=ide-scsi initrd /boot/initrd-2.4.20-19.9.acpi.5custom.img title DOS rootnoverify (hd0,1) chainloader +1 Command (m for help): p Disk /dev/hda: 60.0 GB, 60011642880 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 7296 cylinders Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/hda1 1 4 32098+ de Dell Utility /dev/hda2 * 5 1250 10008495 7 HPFS/NTFS /dev/hda3 1251 1301 409657+ 83 Linux /dev/hda4 1302 7296 48154837+ f Win95 Ext'd (LBA) /dev/hda5 1302 3851 20482843+ 8e Linux LVM /dev/hda6 3852 6401 20482843+ 8e Linux LVM /dev/hda7 6402 6655 2040223+ 82 Linux swap /dev/hda8 6656 7296 5148801 8e Linux LVM

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list moderator
by Stephen Pearce 26 Aug '03

26 Aug '03

My 60 K message .. including lisitng of config. and grub.conf got stopped by its size ... would the moderator let this one though please? Stephen

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.geek.nz Available
by Daniel Appleton 26 Aug '03

26 Aug '03

> Dear Customer, > > You may be interested to know the .geek.nz Domain > has become available for registrations as of 11:00am > this morning. > > We are offering .geek.nz registrations for $35.00 > per year (+gst) at www.domainagent.co.nz > > the Web Drive Team http://search.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Search - Looking for more? Try the new Yahoo! Search

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i8500 / red hat / kernel upgrade / acpi / LVM
by Stephen Pearce 25 Aug '03

25 Aug '03

HELP!!! Hi All! Just got an inspiron 8500/1G/60G/dvd+rw,cdrom/etc Successifully installed rh9.0 .. then upgraded to a patched kernel from an rpm package better .. but not perfectly, optomised for the 8500 power management. Instituted LVM, with no physiscal boot partition as this is what someone who posted a fix for rh on the 8500 .. and it sounded like a good idea. Bit frustrated by lack of support, still for power management even in the patched kernel .. so grabbed a 2.5.75 kernel ..and also a 2.6.0test4 kernel from kernel.org .. compiled ok and installed to grub loader .. .. root=LABEL=/ but it won't mount root and hangs at this point. I tried changing root to /dev/hda2 .. which is where I put linux (hda0 is the dell maintainance partition and hda1 is xp .. yes got it to load and even recompiled to get ntfs support .. successfully) I presume this is some arcane problem with LVM .. any ideas .. next step might be to start from scratch and get rid of LVM. Many thanks Stephen

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WLUG meeting is tonight
by Meeting Reminder Bot 25 Aug '03

25 Aug '03

Today is 25/08/2003 The WLUG meeting is tonight Monday 25 August, 7:30pm Introduction to the BSD Family of Operating Systems, presented by MatthewLuckie. Location: CrawshawSchool. Synopsis to be announced. Stay tuned. _________________________________________________________________

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checkinstall
by S Swami 25 Aug '03

25 Aug '03

It was mentioned in the meeting tonight that installing from source was troublesome for package management systems in that installed files are not recorded in any database. This makes uninstalling difficult. The program 'checkinstall' goes some way in alleviating the problem. It works very well with Slackware packages; I don't know about rpms or debs. See: http://checkinstall.izto.org/ Regards, Sid.

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RE: [wlug] Linux in schools
by Matthew Browne (DSL HN) 25 Aug '03

25 Aug '03

> From: Daniel Lawson [mailto:daniel(a)meta.net.nz] > > I know that one of the largest complaints from Photoshop > users about The Gimp is the retraining time needed. Without > going into the fact that you can get The Gimp in win32 > anyway, or without discussing relative merits of the two > applications, if you are doing a course on graphic design, > and The Gimp will do everything you need, then why not use it? Well first I have to say I agree with your basic point here but I really think this is a bad example. Gimp may have the same basic functionality as Photoshop but it's nowhere near as usable. Dropping a newbie in Gimp would put them off the Graphic Design industry for life. Besides, most books on the subject refer to Photoshop's implementation. I agree this is not ideal but until Gimp improves and other factors (like books, etc) are addressed I don't think anything will change. That said Gimp can be very handy at times and certainly isn't lacking functionality. Just using 1c here. Never know when I might need the other 1c. Matt Browne

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RE: [wlug] Linux in schools
by Matthew Browne (DSL HN) 25 Aug '03

25 Aug '03

> From: Perry Lorier [mailto:perry(a)coders.net] > > Recent version of The Gimp have changed the useability a lot, > for instance by making the "right click" menu permanently > dock'd into the top of the image window by default, which > tends to avoid the "what on earth do I do now?" problem. Actually I was comparing a very recent version of Gimp I have here at work, it was at the same point release at least. Just upgraded to the latest and I can't say I see much difference in the UI and I really don't think that menu thing helps much. Photoshop on the other hand I haven't really used intensively since version 5.5 so if anything, I'm possibly underestimating the difference. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Photoshop has a perfect interface or anything but Gimp's is pretty awful in comparison. Matt Browne

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Linux in schools
by Terry Cole 24 Aug '03

24 Aug '03

Folks, With all the MS problems/virus as well as Exchange problems I have been having, I am keen to try a Linux option at our high school. I have RH 9 Web server that performs great, no downtime. I have spoken with our board chair who is also on my side. For workstations and server what OS and Apps should I use? We need 'Office', 'Corel', 'Internet', 'E-mail', 'Publisher'. I want to put a small network together to show the staff. Any suggestions would be great. Cheers Terry Cole Rotorua, New Zealand mailto:terry(a)cole.gen.nz http://www.cole.gen.nz http://www.websnz.com

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Swap not enabling
by Gene Smith 23 Aug '03

23 Aug '03

Hi guys, I haven't booted with linux for a few months, but when there was talk of a possible newbies class I thought I had better get a little more familiar. Whan I choose redhat 9 as the duel boot option it started booting but got stuck at enabling the swap and it won't go any further. Any clues as to a fix? Thanks :) _________________________________________________________________ Check out the Xtra gaming servers at http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming !

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Next RHEL to be completely Free?
by Craig Box 23 Aug '03

23 Aug '03

"Taroon (the new Red Hat Enterprise Linux) ships with version 2.1 of the open source Eclipse Development Environment. Eclipse requires a Java virtual machine to run, but Taroon doesn't ship with one." http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1228480,00.asp While the article is short on information, it inspires me with hope that due to Red Hat Inc's new position on 'only OSS software in their distribution' that the entirety of RHEL 3 will fall under the GPL and it will be copyable for those who want the stable platform but don't want commercial support. Craig

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ride to the next meeting available from Ham East
by S Swami 23 Aug '03

23 Aug '03

Hi, Glyn and I will be taking a car from Hamilton East to Monday's meeting. So if anyone would like a lift there and/or back, just drop one of us an email. Note that given the terrain that our ramblings span, it is unlikely that we will be taking the shortest path. Indeed, I cannot even guarantee that the route will be acylic -or even directed for that matter- ;) Sid.

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Gallery
by Daniel Appleton 22 Aug '03

22 Aug '03

My gallery (http://gallery.dapples.net.nz/) seems to have broken itself. Anyone have any ideas as to what has gone wrong? Daniel http://search.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Search - Looking for more? Try the new Yahoo! Search

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Open Office and VGA Monitors
by Roger 21 Aug '03

21 Aug '03

I have Red Hat 8 on a machine, which has an old VGA monitor. Is it possible to configure Open Office to work with such an old monitor? At present the text and icons of Open Office take up the majority of the screen, so it is effectively unusable. The other applications do not suffer from the same severe problem. Any help or pointers would be appreciated. Thanks in anticipation, Roger

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Excellent article for Advocacy
by Andrew Thrift ＠ Millennium 21 Aug '03

21 Aug '03

http://news.com.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.html?tag=lh

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Wireless Equipment (off-list topic)
by Sahil Gupta - NET4U LIMITED 21 Aug '03

21 Aug '03

Hi, Does anybody have any Orinoco Wireless Equipment that they wish to part with? If so, please get in touch with me off-list. Regards, Sahil Gupta Senior Account Manager NET4U LIMITED Phone: 0508-263-848 Fax: 07-8582659 Mobile: 029-366-6375

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open office/star office
by Roger Win 21 Aug '03

21 Aug '03

does any one ahave a copy of open office that they could provide a copy of? Roger Win

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WLUG meeting is on Monday, 4 days away
by Meeting Reminder Bot 20 Aug '03

20 Aug '03

Today is 21/08/2003 The WLUG meeting is on Monday, 4 days away Monday 25 August, 7:30pm Introduction to the BSD Family of Operating Systems, presented by MatthewLuckie. Location: CrawshawSchool. Synopsis to be announced. Stay tuned. _________________________________________________________________

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Just looking for Andrew Thrift
by Adrian Kitto 20 Aug '03

20 Aug '03

Hi, Can Andrew please mail me back? Or can someone please provide me with his e-mail address? Regards Adrian Kitto

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Committee meeting
by Craig Box 18 Aug '03

18 Aug '03

As per the decision at the last WLUG society committee meeting, subsequent committee meetings will be not be held alongside WLUG presentation meetings, but instead will be held the Thursday prior. I remind everyone there is a WLUG-Committee list that society members are welcome to join but cannot post to. (See http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug-committee) If anyone has any items they wish to have bought before the WLUG committee, please email them to me before Wednesday afternoon; they will be assembled into an agenda for the meeting at that point. Craig WLUG Secretary

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WLUG meeting is one week away
by Meeting Reminder Bot 17 Aug '03

17 Aug '03

Today is 18/08/2003 The WLUG meeting is one week away Monday 25 August, 7:30pm Introduction to the BSD Family of Operating Systems, presented by MatthewLuckie. Synopsis and location to be announced. Stay tuned. _________________________________________________________________

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Re: [wlug] ragger's newbie again: to make a file executable
by sable drum 16 Aug '03

16 Aug '03

thanks for that! i hope there is an easier approach -- would a mandrake file manager do this automatically? i must check it out a bit more. i might just take up your offer again re: next meeting. i almost have things sorted and then someother unknown crops up -- drives me crazy. part of learning....:-) sigh m >From: Daniel Lawson <daniel(a)meta.net.nz> >Reply-To: wlug <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> >To: wlug <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> >Subject: Re: [wlug] ragger's newbie again: to make a file executable >Date: 15 Aug 2003 08:00:39 +1200 > > > > so, let me get this straight. the device is mounted ok, the file is on >the > > harddrive, now i am simply telling the OS to fetch it and install it. >and > > the "cdroaster 1.12" is the name regardless of what the file appears to >be > > called in the file manager? i didn't try that name with chmod coz i >thought > > i had a different version.... > >You will need to use the name that relates to the version you actually >have. I still suspect there is any easier way of doing this than the >approach you are taking, but I dont have the familiarity with Mandrake >to offer assistance via email (or phone, or irc). > > >I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to look at your machine last meeting - >the committee meeting took a LOT longer than we expected. I don't think >the location for the next meeting has been announced, but if it is going >to be at Crawshaw School, then you are welcome to bring your machine >along (turn up a bit early if you can, 7 ish) and we'll try to get >things working there. Crawshaw has a 'net connection so we can download >anything we need to (Radio Clubrooms dont, makes it hard for fixing >machines in a lot of cases). > > > > >_______________________________________________ >wlug mailing list >wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug _________________________________________________________________ Download MSN Messenger @ http://messenger.xtramsn.co.nz - talk to family and friends overseas!

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Re: [wlug] ragger's newbie again: to make a file executable
by sable drum 14 Aug '03

14 Aug '03

thanks for that. i will try it out fri or sat so, let me get this straight. the device is mounted ok, the file is on the harddrive, now i am simply telling the OS to fetch it and install it. and the "cdroaster 1.12" is the name regardless of what the file appears to be called in the file manager? i didn't try that name with chmod coz i thought i had a different version.... so making it executable means that when i go back to the GUI for cdroast, the permission to write will be "yes" instead of "no" and once every file is read, it will burn?? are we that close to making it happen? even in this weird post full moon period?? >From: Perry Lorier <perry(a)coders.net> >Reply-To: wlug <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> >To: wlug <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> >Subject: Re: [wlug] ragger's newbie again: to make a file executable >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 23:24:12 +1200 > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid5800 > >Hmm, I think you ment >http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=5800 > ^ > > > and am stuck at the part that says "make file executable" > > using chmod and g group something > >You mean: > chmod 700 cdrtoaster-1.12 > usermod -G cdwrite username > >? > >The author is suggesting you do this so you can install this software from >scratch. > >So you download it >then type "chmod 700 cdrtoaster-1.12" in the directory that >"cdrtoaster-1.12" exists in. > > > this feels really silly but i cannot figure out what is the correct file > > name for my file -- i use the one that is on the file as displayed in >the > > file manager but chmod does not find it. > > > > what am i doing wrong???? > > > > thanks folks from me here in raggers town is overcast and it is full >moon, > > which is always dangerous on one level or another. :-) > >Heh! The bugs will be out in force tonight! > >- -- >My mind is making ashtrays in Dayton ... >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) >Comment: Only when you are sure they have you, can you stop being paranoid > >iD8DBQE/OM5bcAgRpy8z8UQRAsfOAJ9+P2JK8KMg+P+eHKgv70nP7P+GCQCfVxg/ >4S6ShDaVEKdc0n8aBqL/+m8= >=RXqd >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >_______________________________________________ >wlug mailing list >wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug _________________________________________________________________ Download MSN Messenger @ http://messenger.xtramsn.co.nz - add your friends!

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Common Install Standard
by edward＠murrell.co.nz 14 Aug '03

14 Aug '03

Hi all. Below is a submission for standard that I'm working on. I'd appreciate thoughts, comments, and ideas. Recently, I have been working over strategies for Linux on the desktop. In particular, I've been comparing usability of system administration tasks to Windows 2K/XP and Mac OS X, the main contenders on the desktop. System administration tasks are done by almost everybody who owns a computer. It's not only things like applying security patch's, but includes mundane things like cleaning out old files, changing thedial-up number for your ISP, and installing and removing software. The last point is a bit of contention under Linux. Sure, apt-get, urmpi, and the like make it easy to get and install the latest open source software from your favourite vendor, but they don't cover 'other'software. Third party, and closed source software is somewhat more difficult. Third party applications are often found on CDs, and quite often the vendor may not be around any more. While there are many arguments for and against closed source software, the fact is that it exists, and it needs to be installed, maintained, and eventually, removed. A common example of popular third party applications are games. Currently, every vendor has their own method of handling the installation and (optionally) removal of software. This is often handled by scripts, Make files, or an GUI application stored somewhere on the file system, perhaps on the original CD. This is confusing for the end user, and to be brutally honest, it's a mess. While it is possible to statically compile libraries, it's not exactly reasonable to have binary files with every single piece of information required to run a program. Things like icons, sound, data, andconfiguration files all often need to be accessible to the user and other programs. One possibility, that I put forward here, is for a simple install and uninstall system, based around symlinks, and a common applications directory. The application, to all outward appearances in most common file browsers, would appear as a file, but it's really a directory. Let us assume the application is called 'Foo'. Foo consists of binary files, supporting libraries, icons, configuration files usually found in /etc/, and so on. We can express most of these in terms of where they normally fit in the unix file system. A few, mainly icons, and programsshortcuts, vary from environment to environment. The 'Applications' folder is accessible from the users Control panel as a special directory, allowing write access with sudo and the rootpassword. The folder itself would most likely sit in somewhere like /usr/local/Applications/. Thus, our application 'Foo', would be in /usr/local/Applications/Foo/. It's file structure would look something like this: /usr/local/Applications/Foo/ /usr/local/Applications/Foo/icon.svg /usr/local/Applications/Foo/description.txt /usr/local/Applications/Foo/main -> ./tree/usr/local/bin/foo /usr/local/Applications/Foo/tree/usr/bin/foo /usr/local/Applications/Foo/tree/usr/lib/foo/libfoo.so /usr/local/Applications/Foo/install/etc/foo/foo.conf /usr/local/Applications/Foo/home/.foo/ To install, symlinks from are made from /usr/bin/foo and /usr/lib/foo/ and /usr/local/Applications/Foo/tree/usr/lib/foo/ to/usr/local/Applications/Foo/tree/usr/bin/foo, and to /usr/local/Applications/Foo/tree/usr/lib/foo/. A copy of /usr/local/Applications/Foo/install/etc/foo/foo.conf is made to /etc/, so that changes made to the configuration do not affect the original files of the program. At the most basic level, Foo/ needs to be copied from it's original source to /usr/local/Applications/ and a script run to copy files in Foo/install/ and make symlinks of the files in Foo/tree/. However, this allows for much greater usability. The file Foo/icon.svg can replace the standard folder icon, and Foo/description.txt can contain multiple language descriptions of the program, to be read by any program used to handle the installation and removal of applications. On moreuser-friendly systems, double clicking on the icon for the program on a CD would prompt the user if they wish to install the program. Attempting to delete the 'program' from the Applications directory would prompt the user if they wish to 'uninstall'. The computer would then remove the symlinks and any configuration files. It also allows the program to ask if the user wishes to remove the system configuration files, originally copied from the the Foo/install/ directory, and user configuration files, originally copied from the Foo/home/ directory. Other benefits of this method come to mind. Source installed packages, for example, Mplayer, instead of being installed directly into the file system, is instead copied into /usr/local/Applications/mplayer/, and installed in the above manner. Mplayer can then be copied easily to other systems, and removed easily. It is also fairly easy to install such applications in systems that do not support it 'natively'. Although a simple shell script is all that is required to 'install' the programs, files can easily be symlinked and copied by hand if need be. I will emphasise again that this system is not meant to replace things link apt-get and rpm, but sit alongside them, and provide a common simple platform independent way of installing third party software.

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The Hamilton PC users group meeting is tonight
by Meeting Reminder Bot 12 Aug '03

12 Aug '03

The The Hamilton PC users group meeting is tonight This is an announcement about the Hamilton PC Users Group, not the next WLUG meeting. Feel free to ignore it. If you're interested in the PC Users Group they meet about 7:30pm on the second Wednesday of each month at St Peters Cathedral Hall, which is up the hill at the South End of Victoria Street. They also have a website at http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~jonali/, but it was last modified 09/07/1999 and appears to be out of date.

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ragger's newbie again: to make a file executable
by sable drum 12 Aug '03

12 Aug '03

hi! i am learning how to use cdroast on mandrake 9.0. i have checked that the ide-scsi diver is indeed loaded and i can check that i have a functional burner at cd level using cdrecord -scanbus. both parts a-ok! now, along with wlug advice from last week or so, i am using advice from this article http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid5800 and am stuck at the part that says "make file executable" using chmod and g group something this feels really silly but i cannot figure out what is the correct file name for my file -- i use the one that is on the file as displayed in the file manager but chmod does not find it. what am i doing wrong???? thanks folks from me here in raggers town is overcast and it is full moon, which is always dangerous on one level or another. :-) _________________________________________________________________ Surf the net and talk on the phone with Xtra Jetstream @ http://www.xtra.co.nz/products/0,,5803,00.html !

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RE: [nznog] RPC DCOM Worm On The Loose
by Lindsay Druett 11 Aug '03

11 Aug '03

Yep... We have live one :-) Secure your Windows Servers, upgrade them to Linux :-) > For those who have not read /. Yet > http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?date=2003-08-11 > > For those who cant read the link > Here is a cut and paste > > > This RPC DCOM worm started spreading early afternoon EDT > (evening UTC). At this point, it is spreading rapidly. > > ********** > NOTE: PRELIMINARY. Do not base your incidents response solely > on this writeup. ********** > > Increase in port 135 activity: > http://isc.sans.org/images/port135percent.png > > Latest update: The worm may launch a syn flood against > windowsupdate.com on the 16th. (unconfirmed) > > The worm uses the RPC DCOM vulnerability to propagate. One it > finds a vulnerable system, it will spawn a shell on port 4444 > and use it to download the actual worm via tftp. The exploit > itself is very close to 'dcom.c' and so far appears to use > the "universal Win2k" offset only. > > The name of the binary is msblast.exe. It is packed with UPX > and will self extract. The size of the binary is about > 11kByte unpacked, and 6kBytes packed: > > MD5sum packed: 5ae700c1dffb00cef492844a4db6cd69 (6176 Bytes) > > So far we found the following properties: > > - Scans sequentially for machines with open port 135, > starting at a presumably random IP address > - uses multiple TFTP servers to pull the binary > - adds a registry key to start itself after reboot > > Name of registry key: > SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run, name: 'windows > auto update' > > Strings of interest: > > msblast.exe > I just want to say LOVE YOU SAN!! > billy gates why do you make this possible ? Stop making money > and fix your software!! windowsupdate.com start %s tftp -i %s > GET %s %d.%d.%d.%d %i.%i.%i.%i BILLY windows auto update > SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run > > Existing RPC DCOM snort signatures will detect this worm. The > worm is based on dcom.c > > known tftp servers for this worm: > > 204.210.57.87 > 217.211.179.193 > 24.147.64.171 > 24.147.64.205 > 24.147.64.208 > 24.147.65.146 > 24.147.65.45 > 24.147.65.9 > 61.254.65.159 > 67.119.36.219 > 68.112.65.38 > 68.166.102.136 > 68.166.107.21 > 68.166.111.175 > 68.166.120.34 > 68.166.121.135 > 68.166.123.4 > 68.166.124.186 > 68.166.124.93 > 68.166.139.155 > 68.166.139.210 > 68.166.141.66 > 68.166.142.194 > 68.166.142.215 > 68.166.36.178 > 68.166.56.123 > 68.166.60.51 > 68.166.98.3 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nzn> og > >

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Hamilton PC Users Group meeting is tomorrow night
by Meeting Reminder Bot 11 Aug '03

11 Aug '03

The Hamilton PC Users Group meeting is tomorrow night This is an announcement about the Hamilton PC Users Group, not the next WLUG meeting. Feel free to ignore it. If you're interested in the PC Users Group they meet about 7:30pm on the second Wednesday of each week at St Peters Cathedral Hall, which is up the hill at the South End of Victoria Street. They also have a website at http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~jonali/, but it was last modified 09/07/1999 and appears to be out of date.

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RE: [wlug] The Wiki
by Lindsay Druett 11 Aug '03

11 Aug '03

> Some kind soul had the mark-up fixed within minutes. > > Next morning, I went back to the page to view the masterpiece > of the night before. It was gone, refactored out of > existence by some guy in Europe :-) > Now let me guess who that is... It must be Aristotle Pagaltzis

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The Wiki
by Perry Lorier 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Since we're unlikely to get much traffic to the wiki for the next while from google, perhaps we should do something else to get the traffic up. I propose we have another week of trying to put information into the Wiki. For those of you that haven't tried to contribute, goto http://www.wlug.org.nz/ and find a page, and click the "Edit" button at the bottom. It'll ask you for your name, you can put anything there, just take your first and last names, capitalise them and mush them together, thus "Perry Lorier" -> "PerryLorier". Then edit the page. If you don't know what to add, check out * http://www.wlug.org.nz/HelpingOut * http://www.wlug.org.nz/WantedWikis (generated regularly) Also, perhaps look at what searches people are doing * http://www.wlug.org.nz/webalizer/ * http://www.wlug.org.nz/archive/querys-recent.txt or, if you want a nice long download * http://www.wlug.org.nz/archive/querys.txt Perhaps also try reviews of software you've used, or questions you want answers to. If everyone adds one page a day for 5 days, we will have a huge impact on the amount of extra information in the wiki when google decides to readd us to the index :) - -- I smell a RANCID CORN DOG! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Only when you are sure they have you, can you stop being paranoid iD8DBQE/NPYtcAgRpy8z8UQRAhYiAJ9+YD656zCD0Bh+u2AOKQ9e8FRIOgCeNw3R Jqmktw0eddX/6pBo7B+ZCuA= =b/XM -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Google searches
by Gavin Grieve 09 Aug '03

09 Aug '03

Is it just me or have we fallen off Googles radar? I've tried a few searches including (without the quotes - they just show what i searched for) "wlug", "waikato linux users group", "linux afsnotes", "linux wlug ipv6" and i didn't get a single hit for the wiki. I did get a few hits for "waikato linux users group" that referred to the mailing list, or links from other sites. Has enabling ipv6 on www.wlug.org.nz broken googles ability to access the wiki and provide links to it? Just a thought - not sure what else could be the problem. Ideas? Gavin Grieve

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Re: [wlug] Learning the CLI ... using the wiki as well
by Jared Wigmore 09 Aug '03

09 Aug '03

> I think that the offer that we have for live CLI> tutorials using Rute> is great. But we need also to provide ongoing help.> Is it possible> to make further use of our excellent infrastructure:> the wiki? Can> we have portions of the rute with comments from us> and perhaps with> one or more people proof-reading this part of the> wiki?I think we could. I might be a proof-reader; I've been almost obsessive-compulsive about error correction the last few years. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Personals - New people, new possibilities! Try Yahoo! Personals, FREE for a limited period!

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kppp sucky-motto
by S Swami 06 Aug '03

06 Aug '03

'top(1)' tells me that my ppp connection from the console (while in X) takes significantly less memory than kppp: ------------------------------------------------------------------- # X usage for comparison PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 390 root 18 0 16880 9268 3444 R 3.6 7.3 8:12.19 X # dial-up connection via console PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 24477 root 8 0 876 872 732 S 0.0 0.7 0:00.01 pppd # and then later dial-up connection via kppp PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 25070 sns 9 0 13012 12m 11m S 0.0 10.3 0:01.34 kppp 25071 root 9 0 8080 8080 7624 S 0.0 6.4 0:00.01 kppp ------------------------------------------------------------------- Any advice will be appreciated. (I know what Craig's thinking :) Cheers, Sid.

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geek.nz
by Oliver Jones 06 Aug '03

06 Aug '03

-- Quote --- The new Second Level Domain, .geek.nz, will be available through Domainz from 11am on Tuesday 26 August 2003. .geek.nz will be an open (not moderated) second level, and will be available on a 'first come, first served' basis. Registrations can be made as usual either through our website or using the email template. Please feel free to get in touch with me if you have any questions relating to .geek.nz, or about your Provider account in general. -- Quote --

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Re: [wlug] Some things I use.
by Martin Baehr 06 Aug '03

06 Aug '03

Distribution: debian Instant Messaging: none -> sTeam Web Browser: firebird Email: mutt IRC: ircii (to lazy to look for something better :-), roxenchat (not irc) Music (Ogg/MP3): xmms, mplayer... Movie players: mplayer (works always) (never seen xine working) Office Suite: none Remote Access/Control: ssh PDF: gv Graphics: gimp Image Viewer: xzgv (am not entirely happy with it, but others are worse) Text/Code Editor: vi Personal Finance: vi (i have a text file where i write down all my expenses) Servers: Caudium, sTeam, wwwoffle (occasionally) Window Manager: Window Maker Office: screen (in servers in austria) (the office is the place where you have all the tools you need to do your office work. all i need is a terminal running ssh (putty if necessary) and a network-connection, add a browser and my office is complete) greetings, martin. -- Pike Conference 2003 - Sep 25-27 - http://pike.ida.liu.se/conferences/2003/ -- interested in doing pike programming, sTeam/caudium/pike/roxen training, sTeam/caudium/roxen and/or unix system administration anywhere in the world. -- pike programmer working in europe open-steam.org unix system- bahai.or.at iaeste.(tuwien.ac|or).at administrator (stuts|black.linux-m68k).org is.(schon.org|root.at) Martin Bähr http://www.iaeste.or.at/~mbaehr/

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Domain Names NZ Scam
by Daniel Appleton 05 Aug '03

05 Aug '03

*- Quote --- Domain Names NZ Published at 11:09, 05/08/2003 The Domain Name Commissioner is aware of a mass mail out by an entity trading as "Domain Names NZ". "Domain Names NZ" appears to be sending pro forma letters to registrants of .co.nz domain names. The letters seek fees for the registration of the .net.nz version of the same name. The Domain Name Commissioner is not aware of any authorised .nz domain name registrar using the trade name "Domain Names NZ". The letters to registrants specify a .net.nz domain name to be registered. Bona fide .nz domain name registrars are not permitted to specify a particular domain name in an offer of registry services. The letters are also in a printed form that looks similar to an invoice or a renewal notice. This may cause confusion. Registrants who have recently received what appears to be an invoice or a renewal notice are strongly advised to look carefully at all details before paying any sum requested. Registrants are strongly advised to be cautious before proceeding with any registration offered in a letter from Domain Names NZ. Registrants are also reminded that they are under no obligation to proceed with the registration and that doing nothing will not affect their current domain name. The DNC is monitoring the situation and will investigate any possible breaches of .nz policy. If people have concerns about the actions of Domain Names NZ please email info(a)dnc.org.nz *- End Quote --- I too recieved mail from these fools today. I wrote them a letter in vivid over what they send me and I'm gonna post it back to them. :) -- Daniel http://dapples.net.nz/ -- http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals - New people, new possibilities! Try Yahoo! Personals, FREE for a limited period!

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RE: [wlug] Some things I use.
by Lindsay Druett 05 Aug '03

05 Aug '03

Hey Jamie or Daniel Do you have the Debian CD handy ? -----Original Message----- From: Lindsay Druett Sent: Tuesday, 5 August 2003 14:00 To: wlug Subject: RE: [wlug] Some things I use. Things I use... WinXP Outlook Media Player (Playing Gatecrasher) Notepad Cisco TFTP 5x Putty 2x Windows Explorer Folders and now 1x Error Report... "Would you like to send this error report to Microsoft ?" -----Original Message----- From: Oliver Jones [mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 5 August 2003 12:20 To: wlug Subject: Re: [wlug] Some things I use. The problem I have with mplayer at the moment is with some windows media playing the sound lagged by about 2 seconds. I can watch the videos but the sound is out of sync. Ah well, at least it kinda works. :) On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 10:00, edward(a)murrell.co.nz wrote: Funny, I use debian as well, but I've always had issues getting mplayer to behave intelligently. It works, but I end up with this weird thing where it will refuse to fullscreen. I've managed to get to work a few times, but it's not as simple as say, just apt-get install xine-ui totem w32codecs, which seem to have intelligent defaults for controls, and handle any file I throw at it (short of real player crap). Although to be fair, if you don't grab the w32codecs deb package (it's somewhere on apt-get.org) pretty much nothing works. I think there's also something you have to run for DVDs to play properly... but I don't have a DVD player, so I can't really comment. > Distribution: debian > Instant Messaging: none -> sTeam > Movie players: mplayer (works always) (never seen xine working) > (the office is the place where you have all the tools you need to do > your office work. all i need is a terminal running ssh (putty if > necessary) and a network-connection, add a browser and my office is > complete) > Another app/server I've started using is TeamSpeak. It is really good voice chat server for use when playing Battlefield 1942 (or other online games). You could also use it for conference calls I guess. It's not OpenSource unfortunately. But it is available as Windows & Linux client/server. It's written in Kylix/Delphi so it has a QT GUI and the server is admin'd via HTTP. It uses a number of different codecs. Including the OpenSource Speex codec which seems to be the best at low bandwidths. > <http://pike.ida.liu.se/conferences/2003/> http://pike.ida.liu.se/conferences/2003/ -- > interested in doing pike programming, sTeam/caudium/pike/roxen > training, sTeam/caudium/roxen and/or unix system administration Pike is an interesting language. Didn't it grow out of LPC (used to create MudOS + Nightmare MUDlib)? Regards -- Oliver Jones § Senior Software Engineer § Deeper Design Limited. <mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz> oliver(a)deeper.co.nz § <http://www.deeperdesign.com> www.deeperdesign.com § +64 (21) 41-2238

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crossover office
by Wayne D. Garton 05 Aug '03

05 Aug '03

Hello all, Thanks for your help with crossover office trial yesterday. It worked. Instead of CTrl Alt F3 I right clicked the desktop (as suggested) and chose terminal. I assume that Ctrl Alt F3 takes you right out of X windows and I also assume that SU means Super user and is the same as Logon / Root Excel now runs sweetly in gnome. I have to say Excel opens my pricebooks from suppliers far, far better than open office (which crashes or runs very slow on about half of the pricebooks) They are just too big or have too many bookmarks. Since the suppliers collectively send me a dozen or so spreadsheets a week, this is quite a big issue. Quatro Pro in Windows environment does a much better job of opening suppliers' pricebooks than open office or any of the Linux ones I have loaded on gnome or KDE. -- Cheers, Wayne D. Garton

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RE: [wlug] Some things I use.
by Lindsay Druett 05 Aug '03

05 Aug '03

I'm on my way :-) > -----Original Message----- > From: mglb1-forwarding > Sent: Tuesday, 5 August 2003 14:10 > To: wlug > Subject: RE: [wlug] Some things I use. > > > /nick Jamie or Daniel > > We have the woody iso on the cd burning machine in G1.02 :) > > Come on up. > > > On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Lindsay Druett wrote: > > > Hey Jamie or Daniel > > > > Do you have the Debian CD handy ? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lindsay Druett > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 August 2003 14:00 > > To: wlug > > Subject: RE: [wlug] Some things I use. > > > > > > Things I use... > > > > WinXP > > Outlook > > Media Player (Playing Gatecrasher) > > Notepad > > Cisco TFTP > > 5x Putty > > 2x Windows Explorer Folders > > and now 1x Error Report... "Would you like to send this > error report > > to Microsoft ?" > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Oliver Jones [mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz] > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 August 2003 12:20 > > To: wlug > > Subject: Re: [wlug] Some things I use. > > > > > > The problem I have with mplayer at the moment is with some windows > > media playing the sound lagged by about 2 seconds. I can watch the > > videos but the sound is out of sync. Ah well, at least it kinda > > works. :) > > > > On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 10:00, edward(a)murrell.co.nz wrote: > > > > Funny, I use debian as well, but I've always had issues getting > > mplayer to > > > > behave intelligently. It works, but I end up with this weird thing > > where > > > > it will refuse to fullscreen. I've managed to get to work a > few times, > > but > > > > it's not as simple as say, just apt-get install xine-ui totem > > w32codecs, > > > > which seem to have intelligent defaults for controls, and > handle any > > file > > > > I throw at it (short of real player crap). > > > > Although to be fair, if you don't grab the w32codecs deb > package (it's > > > > somewhere on apt-get.org) pretty much nothing works. I > think there's > > also > > > > something you have to run for DVDs to play properly... but I don't > > have a > > > > DVD player, so I can't really comment. > > > > > > > Distribution: debian > > > > > Instant Messaging: none -> sTeam > > > > > Movie players: mplayer (works always) (never seen > xine working) > > > > > (the office is the place where you have all the tools you > need to do > > > > > your office work. all i need is a terminal running ssh (putty if > > > > > necessary) and a network-connection, add a browser and my > office is > > > > > complete) > > > > > > > > > > > Another app/server I've started using is TeamSpeak. It is > really good > > voice chat server for use when playing Battlefield 1942 (or other > > online games). You could also use it for conference calls > I guess. > > It's not OpenSource unfortunately. But it is available as > Windows & > > Linux client/server. It's written in Kylix/Delphi so it > has a QT GUI > > and the server is admin'd via HTTP. It uses a number of different > > codecs. Including the OpenSource Speex codec which seems to be the > > best at low bandwidths. > > > > > > > > > <http://pike.ida.liu.se/conferences/2003/> > > > http://pike.ida.liu.se/conferences/2003/ -- > > > > > interested in doing pike programming, sTeam/caudium/pike/roxen > > > > > training, sTeam/caudium/roxen and/or unix system > administration > > > > > > Pike is an interesting language. Didn't it grow out of LPC > (used to > > create MudOS + Nightmare MUDlib)? > > > > Regards > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Oliver Jones § Senior Software Engineer § Deeper Design Limited. > > <mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz> oliver(a)deeper.co.nz § > > <http://www.deeperdesign.com> www.deeperdesign.com § +64 > (21) 41-2238 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Matt Brown > matt(a)mattb.net.nz > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list > wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlu> g > >

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RE: [wlug] Some things I use.
by Lindsay Druett 05 Aug '03

05 Aug '03

Things I use... WinXP Outlook Media Player (Playing Gatecrasher) Notepad Cisco TFTP 5x Putty 2x Windows Explorer Folders and now 1x Error Report... "Would you like to send this error report to Microsoft ?" -----Original Message----- From: Oliver Jones [mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 5 August 2003 12:20 To: wlug Subject: Re: [wlug] Some things I use. The problem I have with mplayer at the moment is with some windows media playing the sound lagged by about 2 seconds. I can watch the videos but the sound is out of sync. Ah well, at least it kinda works. :) On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 10:00, edward(a)murrell.co.nz wrote: Funny, I use debian as well, but I've always had issues getting mplayer to behave intelligently. It works, but I end up with this weird thing where it will refuse to fullscreen. I've managed to get to work a few times, but it's not as simple as say, just apt-get install xine-ui totem w32codecs, which seem to have intelligent defaults for controls, and handle any file I throw at it (short of real player crap). Although to be fair, if you don't grab the w32codecs deb package (it's somewhere on apt-get.org) pretty much nothing works. I think there's also something you have to run for DVDs to play properly... but I don't have a DVD player, so I can't really comment. > Distribution: debian > Instant Messaging: none -> sTeam > Movie players: mplayer (works always) (never seen xine working) > (the office is the place where you have all the tools you need to do > your office work. all i need is a terminal running ssh (putty if > necessary) and a network-connection, add a browser and my office is > complete) > Another app/server I've started using is TeamSpeak. It is really good voice chat server for use when playing Battlefield 1942 (or other online games). You could also use it for conference calls I guess. It's not OpenSource unfortunately. But it is available as Windows & Linux client/server. It's written in Kylix/Delphi so it has a QT GUI and the server is admin'd via HTTP. It uses a number of different codecs. Including the OpenSource Speex codec which seems to be the best at low bandwidths. > <http://pike.ida.liu.se/conferences/2003/> http://pike.ida.liu.se/conferences/2003/ -- > interested in doing pike programming, sTeam/caudium/pike/roxen > training, sTeam/caudium/roxen and/or unix system administration Pike is an interesting language. Didn't it grow out of LPC (used to create MudOS + Nightmare MUDlib)? Regards -- Oliver Jones § Senior Software Engineer § Deeper Design Limited. <mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz> oliver(a)deeper.co.nz § <http://www.deeperdesign.com> www.deeperdesign.com § +64 (21) 41-2238

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Re: [wlug] crossover office
by Matt Brown 05 Aug '03

05 Aug '03

Hi Wayne, As the previous two responses have hit on you need to have X windows running. However as far as I know you do not necessarily have to be root to install crossover office I have purchased the full version and it installed and ran from my user account without any problems whatsoever. So if you are just setting it up for personal use on your own workstation then don't bother with becoming root. The reason that I am suggesting that you do not become root is that when you use su (or similar) to become root much of your environment (particularly the DISPLAY variable which tells programs where to find Xwindows) is lost and could be what is causing your error below. On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Wayne D. Garton wrote: > Hello , > Wayne here .. absolute beginner! > Somebody on this list suggested I use Crossover office to run Excel. > However I need help. I have a 30 day trial of Crossover. > > I have installed the file install-crossover-office-demo-2[1].0.1.sh > in a folder downloads off home > I typed sh install-crossover-office-demo-2[1].0.1.sh > after pressing Ctrl Alt F3 and logging on as root. > > The install for this product loads and then comes back to command > prompt and says ... > The diplay variable is not set. You should either login as root or use > the command "su" with no flags, to make sure setup has an X display to > use. > What now? > -- Matt Brown matt(a)mattb.net.nz

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Re: [wlug] How many would be interested in a newbie class.
by Gene Smith 04 Aug '03

04 Aug '03

I may have Two others to come along, please let me know the details so I can schedule them in. thanks, Gene. >From: "Yi-Chun Chu" <chiamin(a)ihug.co.nz> >Reply-To: wlug <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> >To: "wlug" <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> >Subject: Re: [wlug] How many would be interested in a newbie class. >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 10:04:38 +1200 > >I am interseted to learn what is under the hood of linux installation. In >particular, partitioning a hardisk. And dual boot system. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gavin Denby" <redhat(a)ihug.co.nz> >To: <rod-a(a)hnpl.net>; "wlug" <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> >Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 7:06 PM >Subject: Re: [wlug] How many would be interested in a newbie class. > > > > Thanks to all who have offered to help, Not bad for a group "turning > > their backs on newbies" but I am in the incredible position where we > > have about 5 willing to help and about 2 wanting help. I'm all for low > > student/teacher ratios but 3 teachers per student seem a little > > excessive. > > > > Well watch and see, but at present this looks like a small group, and > > easy to run. > > > > What we might do however is have a night/whatever where several > > different distos are presented and the user explaining why he/she/it > > likes that particular distro. I'm sure you would be a good rep for > > mandrake. > > > > Thanks for all the hands up we have had, but really I need to know how > > many would like to learn from scratch about linux. > > > >_______________________________________________ >wlug mailing list >wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug _________________________________________________________________ Download MSN Messenger @ http://messenger.xtramsn.co.nz - add your friends!

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Re: [wlug] How many would be interested in a newbie class.
by Roderick Aldridge 04 Aug '03

04 Aug '03

On 3 Aug 2003 at 19:05, sable drum wrote: <snip> and i would dearly love to do this in raglan. have huge lounge in my house which can cope wth a number of machines and people -- scene is fine out here. we could make a solid morning of it with great coffee etc. and i can rustle together a few more newbies, easy....raglan is an easy commute. c'mon fellas, you can even head out to the sea afterwards.... does that help any?? <snip> I am happy to come to wherever the people are who want to learn, but we would have to make sure the Hamilton ones don't miss out. Roderick

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Re: [wlug] Dick Smith's Benq Internal CD-RW. Okay? Okay for Linux?
by Edward Murrell 04 Aug '03

04 Aug '03

Well, I have a BenQ/Acer (same thing) CDRW drive in my machine. Works fine. As far as Linux can tell it's just another generic IDE/ATAPI CD drive. I can't tell you how reliable they are though, since mine is somewhat old and doesn't get much of a work out (it's only a 24x speed). Edward On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 15:57, Glyn Webster wrote: > I hear Dick Smith is selling a " Benq Internal CD-RW" cdrom drive for $90. > > Does anyone know any reason I'd be sorry if I bought one of these for my Linux > box?

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Re: [wlug] Dick Smith's Benq Internal CD-RW. Okay? Okay for Linux?
by Matthias Dallmeier 04 Aug '03

04 Aug '03

Glyn Webster wrote: > I hear Dick Smith is selling a " Benq Internal CD-RW" cdrom drive for $90. > > Does anyone know any reason I'd be sorry if I bought one of these for my Linux > box? No, but you should be able to find a LiteOn for only $10 or $15 more, which would be my recommendation. -- Matthias

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Re: [wlug] Learning the CLI ... using the wiki as well
by S Swami 04 Aug '03

04 Aug '03

On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 03:47:54PM +1200, S Swami wrote: > ... > I think that the offer that we have for live CLI tutorials using Rute > is great. But we need also to provide ongoing help. Is it possible > to make further use of our excellent infrastructure: the wiki? Can > we have portions of the rute with comments from us and perhaps with > one or more people proof-reading this part of the wiki? > > Please note that I'm not suggesting that we should not have live > demonstrations. > Woops, this was in response to a post on the committee list* and not to Gavin's stuff which definitely needs a live demonstration. Sorry. Sid. * which I can't send to anyway (and that's a good thing :-)

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Re: [wlug] Compare 2 directories with each other.
by Michael Cree 01 Aug '03

01 Aug '03

> > On 1 Aug 2003, Oliver Jones wrote: > > > > > Howdy. Anyone know of a command that lets you compare the contents of > > > two different dirs? [Various suggestions using diff/ls/tree deleted]. I used to use a shell script that would use diff to compare two directories and all their subdirectories. I mainly used it to verify that a backup CD of crucial data had been written correctly. I have since written it as a perl script which is a bit nicer. Note that I have never got around to tidying up this script to use proper arguments, etc. It currently is set to comparing the current directory to the CD. Edit the line "@totals = &dodir(".","/media/cdrom");" if you want to change the directories it uses. Cut out the script from below and save it as whatever you want to call it and remember to set the execute bit on it. #!/usr/bin/perl # sub dodir { local ($dir) = $_[0]; local ($refdir) = $_[1]; local (@totals) = (0,0,0,0); opendir(F,$dir) || die "ERROR: cannot opendir $dir"; foreach $name (sort readdir(F)) { if ($name ne "." && $name ne "..") { $fullname = $dir . "/" . $name; $refname = $refdir . "/" . $name; if (-d $fullname) { printf "%-50s [d] ", $fullname; if (! -d $refname) { print "ERROR - not on CD\n"; $totals[0]++; }else{ print "(entering)\n"; @subtot = dodir($fullname, $refname); $totals[0] = $totals[0] + $subtot[0]; $totals[1] = $totals[1] + $subtot[1]; $totals[2] = $totals[2] + $subtot[2]; $totals[3] = $totals[3] + $subtot[3]; } }elsif (-f $fullname) { printf "%-50s ... ",$fullname; if (! -f $refname) { print "ERROR - not on CD\n"; $totals[1]++; }else{ $retval = system("cmp -s '$refname' '$fullname'"); if ($retval != 0) { print "ERROR - files differ.\n"; $totals[2]++; }else{ print "OK.\n"; } } }else{ printf "%-50s [can't handle]\n",$fullname ; $totals[3]++; } } } closedir(F); @totals; } $ok = 1; @totals = &dodir(".","/media/cdrom"); print "\n"; if ($totals[3] > 0) { if ($totals[3] == 1) { print "WARNING: There was one [reference] file that I couldn't read.\n"; }else{ print "WARNING: There were $totals[3] [reference] files that I couldn't read.\n"; } } if ($totals[0] > 0) { $ok = 0; if ($totals[0] == 1) { print "WARNING: There was one missing directory.\n"; }else{ print "WARNING: There were $totals[0] missing directories.\n"; } } if ($totals[1] > 0) { $ok = 0; if ($totals[1] == 1) { print "WARNING: There was one missing file.\n"; }else{ print "WARNING: There were $totals[1] missing files.\n"; } } if ($totals[2] > 0) { $ok = 0; if ($totals[2] == 1) { print "WARNING: There was one bad file.\n"; }else{ print "WARNING: There were $totals[2] bad files.\n"; } } if ($ok) { print "All OK.\n"; } Cheers Michael

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Re: [wlug] The LUG is a beast of many backs
by Gavin Denby 30 Jul '03

30 Jul '03

Yes but if after a few nights of playing your adrenaline level is not raised, then you just are not geek material. On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 04:54 PM, Alastair Porter wrote: > On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 16:39, Gavin Denby wrote: >> SO rather than comparing, Get a CD or set up linux on a drive, and >> spend a few evenings playing with stuff and finding out how to do >> something under Linux, But be warned its very addictive. > A few? > I spent probally 3 nights a week for the best part of a year and a bit > playing with linux just experimenting. > I didn't expect to know everything all at once, and by just learning > bit > by bit, i have built up quite a nice knowlede (AFAIC)

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RE: [wlug] Memory for weird things.
by Lindsay Druett 24 Jul '03

24 Jul '03

Well, up until now, I had been using Kingston RAM in Cisco devices, however, if the equipment is under warranty and/or under contract with Cisco directly, then there is a fundamental issue with using Kingston RAM which is not the case with using the RAM from these guys. These guys seem to be cheaper than purchasing Kingston RAM for Cisco devices from TP. That's also taking in account exchange rates, delivery, etc. Also with my experience with delivery, well, let's put it this way. If Federal Express opened business in New Zealand, then all the other couriers (CourierPost, NZ Couriers, etc, etc) would be out of business within no time. -----Original Message----- From: David Nicholls Sent: Thu 24/07/2003 9:16 a.m. To: wlug Cc: Subject: RE: [wlug] Memory for weird things. jeepers you guys, why not just order kingston ram? you can order equivalents for every system from dell to hp to whatever, and its cheaper. thats what the uni does. we just go to the kingston site and match system codes to get the right ram (i think its the us site so the price roughly doubles of course), then we order from NZ suppliers. theres bound to be someone around who is cheaper than our "oficial" supplier (tech pacific) that gets in kingston ram. cheers... david -----Original Message----- Oliver Jones wrote: > Howdy. Thought I'd let people know I've found and awesome supplier of > weird memory. I wanted to upgrade our HP 1300 from it's puny 16MB of > ram to 80MB. Basically so large OpenOffice docs print without barfing > half way through. Techpac are the suppliers of HP gear in NZ. Their > prices for ram upgrades on printers are stupidly high. Well you can get > 64MB upgrade for a 1300 from www.MemoryX.net <http://www.MemoryX.net> for 30 USD + ~ 30 USD for > FedEx express. It costs 10 times as much to buy the same ram from > Techpac. The goods arrived within a week of ordering in perfect condition. My printer could definitely use another 64MB of memory at that price. Does anyone who has a credit card want to put an order together and share the cost of shipping? -- Matthias _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug <http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug> -- Oliver Jones § Senior Software Engineer § Deeper Design Limited. oliver(a)deeper.co.nz <mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz> § www.deeperdesign.com <http://www.deeperdesign.com> § +64 (21) 41-2238

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Re: [wlug] Configuring a firewall
by Craig Box 24 Jul '03

24 Jul '03

> I'm trying to set up a firewall to hopefully prevent being hacked again. > Since the machine is a dialup (until DSL comes to Hikutaia) I figure > that it's got to be pretty straightforward. > > The machine is also a workstation and file/print/mail/dnscache etc > server for my home office network of itself plus 2 or 3 other machines. > > The whole issue of what firewall software to use seems a bit confusing, > but I think I've figured out that ipmasq does what I need. I've > installed it and read the debian ipmasq users manual but I'm not sure > what to do next. According to the manual I configure it using > dpkg-reconfigure. I've done that and selected the ppp option. If I were you, I'd start by reading http://www.wlug.org.nz/HowFirewallingWorks, I'd skim-read about how Perry's firewalling script works (at http://www.wlug.org.nz/PerrysFirewallingScript) and then I would install the .deb, which I'd find at http://www.wlug.org.nz/archive/debian/linuxserver-firewall_0.3_all.deb. (hint: wget the file, then dpkg -i) Then, you need to go into /etc/linuxserver-firewall/interfaces.d, check the mapping between interfaces and classes (which you learnt about in your skim-read), edit the files as required and type '/etc/init.d/linuxserver-firewall restart' And then you're done, and you did some good learning along the way too. ;) Future versions of the Debian package will do automatic guessing of interfaces and network addresses. Someday. This message bought to you by "When in doubt, ask the Wiki" Craig

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Re: [wlug] Configuring a firewall
by Gavin Denby 24 Jul '03

24 Jul '03

Glen I sent you a long text off list, Hope it helps Covers IP routing and stuff, You probably only need the last bit, but ut was easier to send it all to you. Good luck I cheated, got a 486, installed IPCOP firewall, web configured and very nice, My router also has a firewall, so I'm now behind 2 of them On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 07:43 PM, Glenn Ramsey wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to set up a firewall to hopefully prevent being hacked > again. Since the machine is a dialup (until DSL comes to Hikutaia) I > figure that it's got to be pretty straightforward. > > The machine is also a workstation and file/print/mail/dnscache etc > server for my home office network of itself plus 2 or 3 other > machines. > > The whole issue of what firewall software to use seems a bit > confusing, but I think I've figured out that ipmasq does what I need. > I've installed it and read the debian ipmasq users manual but I'm not > sure what to do next. According to the manual I configure it using > dpkg-reconfigure. I've done that and selected the ppp option. > > What next? The manual doesn't say any more, does that mean that it's > automatically configured? Do I need to learn the details of iptables > so I can confirm that it is correct or is there an easier way? > Currently I don't really have the time to do that so if the answer to > the last question is yes then can you guys suggest someone who I could > pay to do it? > > Thanks > g > > -- > Glenn Ramsey <glenn(a)componic.co.nz> 07 8627077 > http://www.componic.co.nz > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list > wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

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Memory for weird things.
by Oliver Jones 21 Jul '03

21 Jul '03

Howdy. Thought I'd let people know I've found and awesome supplier of weird memory. I wanted to upgrade our HP 1300 from it's puny 16MB of ram to 80MB. Basically so large OpenOffice docs print without barfing half way through. Techpac are the suppliers of HP gear in NZ. Their prices for ram upgrades on printers are stupidly high. Well you can get 64MB upgrade for a 1300 from www.MemoryX.net for 30 USD + ~ 30 USD for FedEx express. It costs 10 times as much to buy the same ram from Techpac. The goods arrived within a week of ordering in perfect condition. Regards -- Oliver Jones § Senior Software Engineer § Deeper Design Limited. oliver(a)deeper.co.nz § www.deeperdesign.com § +64 (21) 41-2238

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Re: [wlug] telephone and linux
by Gavin Denby 20 Jul '03

20 Jul '03

For some reason when I type vcopsystems.com, my mozilla browser corrects my obvious mistake to www.vcopsystems.com and it fails, even when it folow the link it works in that i see the page, but the address bar shows the www, which is wrong, thus my cut and paste was wrong link, in short annoying, Galeon does the same, so its probably an error in the core, must be time to upgrade it. All the rest of my mozilla installs work fine. its just that machine, its also the first time I've noticed it. On 19 Jul 2003 23:03:19 +1200 zcat <zcat(a)themall.co.nz> wrote: > > http://vcopsystem.com > > > > But I can get it if i Type it in too, Weird. > > try vocpsystem.com > > Strangely, that's the first hit when you search for vcop too. go > figure.. > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list > wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

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Re: Is linux better or not? Was: Re: [wlug] victory for linux in munich!
by Daniel Lawson 16 Jul '03

16 Jul '03

> > >If you define a metric, it's easy to say "Foo is better than bar". > > Yes. But you have to be careful that you are actually comparing on the metric, and not on your interpretation of the metric, or on the metric but influenced by some hidden factor (ie Mindcraft or whoever they were benchmarks) >Back to the point of the metric, the page was designed to say "This program, >if you use X on Windows, will do it on Linux." And the short answer is that >it won't. You will find that it does some things better (might be more >stable, might have more functions), but it does some things worse. Or >everything differently. > > We have no idea what they want to use it for on Windows though. For you to make the statement on the wiki, along the lines of 'All this linux sofware is at a basic equivalence level with its Windows partner' is completely missing the point, that you actually have no idea what people want to do with it or not. Moreover, the statement as it stands is highly likely to put anyone off using the alternatives - they are only a basic equivalent after all.[1] One example here. Gnumeric is a very polished replacement for Excel. It supports all the Excel spreadsheet functions, and a whole lot more. It doesn't have VBA, but I'm to understand that it supports perl/python/tcl scripting instead. It has a graph builder, advanced mathematical support, solver support, etc etc, and can even read / write Excel95/97/2k etc files. This is completely irrelevant if the user wants to build a basic spreadsheet with a few SUM and AVERAGE functions thrown in, and some formatting. Its completely irrelevant if the user is actually, due to its nice column layout structure, using it to generate a template for school reports. I have no idea what the user wants to use it for, and therefore I can only suggest that it might do the job. Likewise: VS is perhaps the de facto IDE under windows. Thats nice. It's entirely possible you'd be able to code just as well, if not better, under vim, or emacs, or joe, with another xterm open and use of make / gdb and cvs. It is perhaps worth noting that joe isn't as feature-full as VS (in fact, its just a text editor), but that is rather different from implying that there is no way to do the things you do in VS, under linux. >If your concern is "Linux Acts Just Like Windows Does" then Windows scores >100% and Linux scores in the lower half of the spectrum. That was the point >I was trying to make. Linux's goal isn't to OSS Windows (interestingly, > > If you meant this, you said it very badly. As what you had said sounded more like "Nothing under Linux does as good a job as the Windows version", which is a very broad reaching statement, and I might add, highly subjective based on your view of what people actually want to do with a program under Windows or Linux. It *is* fair to say that there are differences in the program, and that while Openoffice.Org Writer or Abiword might, at first blush, be an adequate replacement for MS Word, but lack some features that *some* people *might* want, but that wasn't what you were saying. While we're on the discussion of that wiki page, it was asking for what people use instead of a program under Windows. I dont use Windows. So instead of using MS Word, I use Abiword. It doesn't matter at all if its feature-equivalent to the MS Word. It's WHAT I USE UNDER LINUX. Likewise, I use gvim/gcc/make/cvs/gdb under Linux for development. It's *my* IDE. Highly subjective, of course, but the page was asking for individual responses. >there is a project that aims to do this, and they almost have NT4's cmd.exe >down pat). It will keep evolving whichever way it does. Linux doesn't have >the commercial app support (and it may never, and it may never matter). You >can't do everything you can do in Windows on it. But the price of freedom > > I dont see that 'you can't do everything you can do in Windows on it' is true. I *can* do everything that *I* do in Windows under linux. You can propose that 'Joe Windows User' would say otherwise if you like, but until we actually have a good, objective, understanding of what 'Joe Windows User' actually does with his computer, then its all speculation, and as I pointed out before, highly subjective and based on our own view. As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing stopping people using linux as a desktop fulltime. You disagree. Who of us is right? Daniel (From his linux desktop, on which he does all his work, and all the stuff he would want to do in Windows) [1] IF you want to do real comparisons, then do a feature matrix. And do full comparisons, so list things that both equivalents do, or perhaps grade them if you think one is better. Phil's comparison of The Gimp to Photoshop is a good candidate here, as would a comparison bettween MS Office and Abiword, Gnumeric, Oo.O, Kword, etc etc.

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Re: [wlug] Poster
by S Swami 14 Jul '03

14 Jul '03

On Monday July 4:57pm, Daniel Appleton wrote: > hmm... > > HTTP Error > Status : 504 Gateway Time-Out > > Description : Unable to connect to origin Web server. > > Note : If necessary, please contact your Systems > Administrator for resolution. > > > --- Craig Box <craig(a)dubculture.co.nz> wrote: > Hi > everyone, > > > If you want a poster for the upcoming LUG meeting > > that you can print out and > > put up in suitable places, see > > http://ellusions.meta.net.nz/~crb/wlug.pdf > > > > Craig Works from KMail with "save link as". Sid.

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Mandrake 9.1 and Red Hat 9
by Matthias Dallmeier 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

Anyone who wants a three-CD set of Mandrake 9.1 or Red Hat 9, please let me know as soon as possible and bring along $5 to the meeting on Monday. If you cannot afford $5 or are not interested in attending the meeting, feel free to bring your own blank CDs (including at least one additional CD for the obligatory coaster) to 35 Galway Ave, Hamilton East and I can put Mandrake 9.1 or Red Hat 9 on them for free. Please write me an e-mail or give me a call on 021 615104 to make an "appointment" before you turn up at my place though. Thank you. -- Matthias

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Re: [wlug] Anyone Got A Copy Of Mandrake Linux
by Andre Henry 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

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Anyone Got A Copy Of Mandrake Linux
by Andre Henry 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

Hey Everyone Does anyone have a copy of mandrake linux that i can have or buy. Or if you have jetstream and are able to download it for me it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Alot Andre Henry

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Next Meeting: Mon 23 June. Wireless Networking and Linux
by Daniel Lawson 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

Wireless Networking and Linux, Monday 23rd June. This will be a presentation by CRCNet (http://www.crc.net.nz/) <http://www.crc.net.nz>, part of the WAND Research Group (http://www.wand.net.nz/) in the Computer Science Department at the University of Waikato. It will be held in the room A.G.11, at 7:30 pm on the 23rd of June 2003. (directions will be posted on the WLUG wiki at Currently looks to be about wireless networking in general, a quick show-and-tell of some wireless gear, and discussion of the CRCNet wireless network.

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question...
by David Nicholls 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

quick one for you guys. who is hosting our hardware at the mo'? and is anyone sponsoring bandwidth etc? David Nicholls Computer Support Consultant School of Science & Technology/Dept of Chemistry The University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

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student web hosting
by Terry Cole 18 Jun '03

18 Jun '03

Can anyone give me any help, please. The so called "free" web hosting seem to have inappropriate advertising, this sometimes appears after you have set up your web pages. I would like some of my students to be able to publish their web pages on the net, but would like a simple way of uploading and editing their own work. I don't want to FTP in and I would like them to be able to do this from the class as well as home. Are there any scripts out there that could help me in setting this up. I could then run them from our own domain. Thanks Terry & Kay Cole Rotorua, New Zealand mailto:terry(a)cole.gen.nz mailto:kay(a)cole.gen.nz http://www.cole.gen.nz http://www.websnz.com

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student web hosting
by Terry Cole 18 Jun '03

18 Jun '03

Sorry folks, I might not of made my self clear. I have web hosting and I can run scripts etc from there. I don't want to use FTP. I am teaching HTML to students. I want them to be able to upload, edit etc like Orion explains. I have tried Easy Host, works well but can not edit on line unless you purchase full version. I want to also set it up on the school server (RH9). Please keep the suggestions coming. Cheers Terry & Kay Cole Rotorua, New Zealand mailto:terry(a)cole.gen.nz mailto:kay(a)cole.gen.nz http://www.cole.gen.nz http://www.websnz.com

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WLUG meeting is on Monday, 4 days away
by Bruce Kingsbury 18 Jun '03

18 Jun '03

Today is 19/06/2003 The WLUG meeting is on Monday, 4 days away June 2003 Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22[23]24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Wireless Networking and Linux, Monday 23rd June. This will be a presentation by http CRCnet , part of the http WAND Research Group in the Computer Science Department at the University of Waikato. The meeting will be about wireless networking in general. This will include how to make wireless work under Linux, a quick show-and-tell of some wireless gear, and discussion of the CRCnet wireless network. It will be held at the university in the room A.G.11, at 7:30 pm on the 23rd of June 2003. A.G.11 is about half way down the main corridor on the ground floor of A block. You should walk in Gate 8 off of Hillcrest road. Parking is available on Hillcrest road and as the meeting is after hours you can use the managment staff carpark in Gate 7. A full map of the univeristy is available from http here. NOTE: The room above is a firm booking at the moment, but it has not been confirmed. It may change at any time up to and including Monday the 23rd of June. Watch this space ! http://www.wlug.org.nz/archive/hillcrest-map.png http://www.wlug.org.nz/archive/unimap.gif _________________________________________________________________

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OT IRC channel formed
by Nick Elder 18 Jun '03

18 Jun '03

Hi, Just thought I would mention that a handfull of linux users have started an IRC chat room for NZ linux users. It is called #nzlinux and it is on the freenode network. Many will be aware of such a channel by the same name on the undernet network. Well the new freenode room is a channel formed and being run by a different group of enthusiasts. We are trying to create a friendly environment where new and seasoned NZ linux users can swap ideas on linux, or have a chat on anything in general, and hopefully have fun at the same time. cheers, Nick Elder <NickelZ> ref: http://www.freenode.org/irc_servers.shtml

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WLUG meeting is one week away
by Bruce Kingsbury 15 Jun '03

15 Jun '03

Today is 16/06/2003 The WLUG meeting is one week away June 2003 Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22[23]24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Next WLUG Meeting: 2003-06-23 ? Wireless Networking and Linux, Monday 23rd June Edit the MeetingTopics page to add suggestions that you'd like to see!

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Re: [wlug] Mandrake 9.1
by Craig Mckenna 13 Jun '03

13 Jun '03

Yes I would be after all 3 CDs On Fri, 2003-06-13 at 02:37, Daniel Appleton wrote: > I'd just download it for ya but I dont have a cd > writer, so.. not much point. > > Are you after all 3 cds? > > > --- Gavin Denby <redhat(a)ihug.co.nz> wrote: > If no > one closer, I have it in Ngaruawahia > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 12:12, Craig Mckenna wrote: > > > > > Anyone have this locally? > > > > > > Looking for a copy for a friend > > > _______________________________________________ > > wlug mailing list > > wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile > - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list > wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug -- Craig Mckenna IT Systems Manager Eforms Limited

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Re: [wlug] tonights meeting
by Jamie Curtis 26 May '03

26 May '03

> My final demonstration, which I didn't get working, was with a suite > called PXES. This is an initrd image of a minimal linux installation. > I'm not sure which distribution it started with however. Basically, it > downloads a 20 MB file which it then uncompresses into a ramdisk, and > runs linux out of this. Information on it can be found at its > sourceforge page, http://pxes.sourceforge.net Looking at the SF page, it appears that the compresed file is approximatly 4.7mb. However they don't say what the resident size is in the ram disk, which concerns me about how much memory you would need to run this. If the ramdisk isn't compressed, it could take upto 15 - 20mb of ram, and once you add X onto that you are really going to be pushing a 32mb machine. Do you have any feelings about this or experiances with how much ram you do really need ? I couldn't find anything about this on their pages. Jamie

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Question about routing
by Jodi Thomson 08 May '03

08 May '03

Howdy I'm looking for a way of routing ports 7210, 7220, 7230, 7240, 7250, 7280 and 7285 from one IP to another using masquerading eg incoming traffic on 130.217.xxx.xx1 and outgoing on 130.217.xxx.xx2 UDP and TCP This is to solve a problem we're having with offsite connections to our new library system server Query 1)Are these ports routable in the linux kernel? Query 2) Can some give an example ipchains/iptables rules of how I might go about this? (I'm not overly fluent with creating these) Cheers Jodi ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------- Jodi W. Anderson, Mr (BA, A+, MCP) - Computer Systems Consultant Waikato University Library - Computing Operations Group Ph: +64 7 838 4323 email: jodi(a)waikato.ac.nz "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before."

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Re: [wlug] Mail problems with Mandrake 9.1
by Daniel Lawson 27 Apr '03

27 Apr '03

> If kppp dials in with my modem under root no problems. However if I > dial in under my username the modem dials and seems to connect but > mozilla mail doesn't download my mail. It comes up with a message > resolving host pop.ihug.co.nz and stays there and doesn't download my > mail . I have changed my permisions on /dev/modem and made sure I have > the correct permissions for Mozilla mail and it also seems I have the > same problem web browsing does anybody know what files I would have to > change the permissions on. It may be a stupid question but I don't know. What this sounds like is a problem resolving if you dial in as a user, not as root. To test this, try connecting to the Internet as your username, and open up a terminal and issue the following command: /bin/ping -c 5 202.27.184.3 This will send 5 ICMP ping packets to one of xtra's nameservers (which you should be able to ping from anywhere). If this doesn't work, it either means that your ISP is brokenly firewalling ICMP, or that you haven't in fact connected. If this does work fine, then the problem is probably that your resolver isn't being set correctly when you log in as your user. If you could issue the following commands (while you are dialed in as your user) and give us the output it would be good ls -la /etc/resolv.conf cat /etc/resolv.conf

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Re: [wlug] Hating RPMs.
by Glyn Webster 18 Apr '03

18 Apr '03

> -- > You will contract a rare disease. SARS! I saw a Chinese man cough yesterday. (I saw it happen on TV, but sometimes that's all it takes!) -- Glyn Webster ~ Simplicity himself. ~ glyn(a)wave.co.nz

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Re: [wlug] Yoper
by Craig Mckenna 11 Apr '03

11 Apr '03

On Fri, 2003-04-11 at 14:52, Gavin Grieve wrote: > On 4/11/2003, "Andreas Girardet" <andreas(a)yoper.com> wrote: > > >:) I am sure I am going to be at another LUG meeting, since Auckland ain't > >that far. > > Dammit, I guess this'll mean I should turn up for meetings again then. I'm > going to try, but depending on my schedule (read: shifts), it may only be > every second month or so. > > Gavin thats even more regularly than when you were in hamilton though ;) -- Craig Mckenna IT Systems Manager Eforms Limited

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Red Hat 9
by craig＠dubculture.co.nz 01 Apr '03

01 Apr '03

Red Hat 9 (shrike) was yesterday released to the FTP servers for Red Hat Network subscribers. Being that Linux users are an impatient lot, it was made available quickly through the new open source P2P system BitTorrent (see http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/) I have downloaded it and burnt it to 3 CDs. (No docs/SRPMs yet.) I've copied it for Greig McGill, and I'll give it to Matthias Dallmeier at lunchtime. Anyone who wants a copy _today_ is advised to hop onto #wlug on IRC and organise something with Matthias, who is looking after wider public distribution. Otherwise, posts to the list will probably quickly result in offers of copies. Next: Knoppix 3.2, which I haven't DLed because it changes almost daily! Side note: while some people may suggest that we should be supporting Red Hat Ltd. and not 'copying' the release that they have released earlier for paying customers, think of it this way: by downloading it P2P with BitTorrent, all the people who would have hammered the main site come a week from now will have just saved Red Hat Ltd. a lot of money in bandwidth charges. Side side note: BitTorrent wasn't nearly as fast a method for downloading as everyone made out on Slashdot!

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Re: [wlug] unsubsribe
by Kim Shepherd 01 Apr '03

01 Apr '03

Argh! Then *I* manage to do the same thing......... (yes, this was meant for the list..) > Hi John, > > You actually sent this message to the list instead of to the maintenance > address, but I've manually unsubscribed you. > > Cheers, > > Kim.

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Re: [wlug] Wire wrap
by Gavin Denby 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

short term borrow, ask me (less than a week) have wire too. Phone cable is cheap option long term, Ideal electrical, Hand tool house, Mastertrade(maybe) connector systems(ak) radio spares www.rswww.co.nz farnell, www.farnell.com then select NZ If you need help drop me a line off list, I'll send you a phone number On Thu, 2003-03-27 at 22:51, Glyn Webster wrote: > Does anyone know where I can buy a wire wrap tool and wire in Hamilton?

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Urgent committee meeting
by Daniel Lawson 24 Mar '03

24 Mar '03

Due to recent events, I am calling an urgent LUG committee meeting. Crawshaw School, 7:00 pm tommorrow (Wednesday). Myself, Jamie Curtis, Craig Box, Craig McKenna, Kim Shepherd, Perry Lorier, Gavin Denby, Greig McGill, Phil Murray, Burce Kingsbury. I would appreciate it if all of the committee turned up. Members are allowed to attend, however this is a meeting called specifically for committee business and while comments may be asked of those attended, non committee members are asked to not feel offended if they don't get to have their say. If transport is required it can be arranged. Contact me by email if you want a lift. Daniel

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FW: [nznog] Net4u - Stealing bandwidth etc.
by Lindsay Druett 24 Mar '03

24 Mar '03

> -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Lyall [mailto:simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, 25 March 2003 08:35 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: [nznog] Net4u - Stealing bandwidth etc. > > > Looks like the herald is breaking all the interesting stories lately: > > http://tinyurl.com/82j8 > > I can understand Callplus having problems since they have > been struggling with inexperienced staff for a few months > (although 6 months is before the most recent resignations) > but I'm not sure how the Jetstream/Jetstart thing would have > worked. I've yet to see Telecom lose money when people get > Jetstream relms confused. > > -- > Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: > simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz > Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: > simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz > Ihug Ltd, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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WLUG meeting is one week away
by Bruce Kingsbury 16 Mar '03

16 Mar '03

Today is 17/03/2003 The WLUG meeting is one week away March 2003 Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23[24]25 26 27 28 29 30 31

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CoffeeLinux HTML editor
by Ron Dean 16 Mar '03

16 Mar '03

I have got the above software running but only under root. I have changed the file permisions to user 9ron) for the software however it still will only run under root. Iam using Mandrake 9. I have not had problems with changing file permisssions for other software. The executable files are in my /home/ron/ directory. Any help would be much appreciated Ron Dean

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desknote
by Stephen Pearce 14 Mar '03

14 Mar '03

Does anyone have advise or recommedations on a lpatop/notebook suitable for running linux? I have been looking at the Elite i-Buddie desknote pc ... a928,a929,a980 .. they come without a battery and use desktop components so are current hungry .. but price/performance seems v. impressive. The local agent seemed to only know about the a901 .. does anyone know a dealer doing the later models .. or could recommend a similar concept from another manufacturer .. or maybe just has some advise on conventional portables ... the choise is rather daunting Thanks Stephen g_and_s_pearce(a)xtra.co.nz

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Re: [wlug] Next week-of-doing-things on the WLUG-Wiki
by Glyn Webster 04 Mar '03

04 Mar '03

> anyhow, probably the best way of doing categories is to create a > category page by editing it and putting > This is a category for blah, blargh lbargh... > <?plugin BackLinks?> > > then as you find pages that should be in one category or another you add > a link to the page, to link to the category pages without putting the > page into the category you use category: Indeed. It's just with ~6000 pages it's going to take fair number of people to get through them all! Which is why I suggested it ought to be done in a week long push like your Add-a-Page-To-the-Wiki-a-Day one. > perhaps do it as you see pages :) Oh well, better get started then... %-| -- Glyn Webster ~ Simplicity himself. ~ glyn(a)wave.co.nz

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Re: [wlug] Tonight's meeting
by Daniel Appleton 25 Feb '03

25 Feb '03

Oh dear, I've got 2000 Pro, 2000 Server & Xp Pro installed on here. 2000 is the most stable windows though. Anyone got '98? ;) Daniel http://dapples.net.nz/ --- Gavin Denby <redhat(a)ihug.co.nz> wrote: > Um maybe if I borrowed a machine with windows on it, > But not here > anymore. sorry. > > > On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 19:11, Daniel Appleton wrote: > > How about a demonstration of how many times you > can > > make Windows crash during a meeting? > > > > anyone? > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list > wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Exchange IMs with Messenger friends on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile phone.

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Re: [wlug] ADSL failover
by Perry Lorier 13 Feb '03

13 Feb '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > Hi everyone, > > I'm currently investigating how to set up ADSL failover. > > The default gateway on the network is a Linux machine, and its default > gateway is a Nokia M1122 connected to Tempest. In case the Tempest > connection goes down, I would like to set the machine up to fall back to a > secondary route, connected to a Jetstream modem. The Jetsream connection > should only ever be used in the case that the Tempest connection is > unavailable. > > How I've thought this should work: > > - set a route for both modems, giving the Tempest modem a higher metric > (this might not be necessary?) lower metric's are prefered. you want to give the jetstart modem a higher metric. > Would a ping test fired by something like Nagios be enough for this task? > The modems support RIP, but I'm not sure what I'd need to do with the Linux > machine to use it, and if it's overkill? Am I missing anything? rip would be good if they announce if they are up/down, as you could use rip to add/remove the routes. rip works just like ospf, see the zebra docs for more information - -- Bower's Law: Talent goes where the action is. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Only when you are sure they have you, can you stop being paranoid iD8DBQE+SuiscAgRpy8z8UQRAkClAKCy9sRzGBQWF+EHQeI8JaSsmJhMdgCfQY12 p6wm4wOssfd9E7aB0c2k2NU= =4juG -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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