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RE: [wlug] WLUG Members - Input Required
by David Nicholls 22 Sep '04

22 Sep '04

-----Original Message----- From: Greig McGill [mailto:greig(a)hamiltron.net] Sent: Wednesday, 22 September 2004 10:32 pm To: Waikato Linux Users Group Subject: [wlug] WLUG Members - Input Required Greetings all. Several matters have arisen at tonight's committee meeting which require some input from the WLUG in general. PLEASE read this email, and offer your input - preferably offlist, but onlist if you'd like feedback from other WLUG members. 1. WLUG Funding Last year, the committee attempted to raise funds for the purchase of a mobile test rig/demo lab consisting of a server, a workstation, and several peripherals for use in presentations, training, and perhaps community education. We were declined on all three attempts, but will be trying again this year. What we need to know is: Is this a good goal for funding? Do you have a better idea? Is there a service you would like to see the WLUG provide that is currently unrealistic due to funding restrictions? Keep in mind that funding must be applied for with a specific project in mind, as funding cannot be used to meet ongoing running costs, or allow for events that may not happen. 2. New and Inexperienced Users As mentioned at the AGM, the WLUG has been accused of being unsupportive of new or inexperienced users. It was explained that the *active* members of the WLUG, ie. the ones who do all the work, are experienced users, and are thus unlikely to arrange meetings on beginner topics, or arrange installfests, which they have little desire to attend. We don't wish to alienate the new or inexperienced users however, but we need some of them to step up, and volunteer to present some beginner topics, arrange workshops, and perhaps start a "beginner stream". You will have the full backing, and support of the "old hands" - just tell us what you need. I repeat TELL US WHAT YOU NEED! Nothing is more demoralising than being complained at for not providing something which no one has ever told us they wanted. We do have something scheduled for the new people. October's meeting will be dedicated to using the WLUG resources - the Wiki, mailing list, effective use of Google, etc. It will also feature a live "fixup workshop". This will consist of people bringing their "broken" setups, and we will pick a few, and solve them, live, on the projector. This will not only get the problem fixed, but will show the troubleshooting process, and hopefully demystify the black-magic aspect of what the 'gurus' of the group do. Details will follow. Suggestions are welcome and encouraged. Regards, Greig McGill ElPresidente :) _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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WLUG Meeting is tonight
by Meeting Reminder bot 22 Sep '04

22 Sep '04

The WLUG meeting is this evening ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Kangro from Novell will speak. All are welcome to attend. 7pm, 23rd Sept University of Waikato Park in Gate 1, Knighton Rd Room: LitB.G.02 http://www.waikato.ac.nz/perl-bin/map/tt-map.pl?term=litb http://www.waikato.ac.nz/contacts/map.pdf

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Re: [wlug] Wireless up and running Yipeeeeeeeeee
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 21 Sep '04

21 Sep '04

Good on you Bill.. ----- Original Message Follows ----- > I finally have most of the Ad-Hoc Wireless link > working. Only missing Internet connection. > > Info @ http://www.wlug.org.nz/AdHoc > > Bill > > Learning is fun (most of the time LOL) > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection > around http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Committee meeting this Wednesday
by Craig Box 21 Sep '04

21 Sep '04

Hi everyone, The Fist has announced the first meeting of its new committee, this Wednesday. There's a draft agenda up at http://www.wlug.org.nz/CommitteeMeetingTopics.2004-09-22 - if anyone wants anything put on the agenda for this meeting, can they please email me. Remember, if we don't know about it, we can't fix it. Regards, Craig

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FW: Seminar Invitation : Novell & Linux Means Business
by Gund Wehsling 17 Sep '04

17 Sep '04

Hi Corporate event in Auckland next month. I am waiting to see if I can go, if so, there will be room in my car, details closer to the time. This is important because it is going to show what the corporate people are seeing when they are introduced or demonstrated LINUX. Gund _____ From: Novell [mailto:jturbill(a)novell.com] Sent: Friday, 17 September 2004 1:42 p.m. To: Gund Wehsling Subject: Seminar Invitation : Novell & Linux Means Business <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> N<http://www.novell.com/email/img/n_logo_small.gif> <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/images/novell/banner.jpg> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> Novell and Linux means business If you only attend one IT event this year, this is the one. 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You will hear about: * Where Open Source is heading and the directions emerging from the Open Source community. * The latest trends and growth projections for Open Source. * Why Linux is now a viable choice as a core enterprise computing platform. * Who in the corporate world is already using Linux and what have been their experiences. * The views of major vendors and their Linux strategy roadmap. * How to make Linux the core platform in your IT environment and migration considerations. You will see demonstrations of: * Linux for the desktop * Linux server * Developing applications for Linux using Mono and .Net You will get FREE evaluation software: By registering for this event you will receive a complete set of Linux evaluation software for FREE! Don't miss the bus - reserve your seat TODAY! <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> Win a palmOne Treo(tm) 600: <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/images/novell/treo.jpg> Register before September 20 and you could win a palmOne Treo(tm) 600 colour smartphone* Get more information <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECeS.cfm?e=1ms-10-20f-27b73j> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> When and Where: <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> October 11 : Canberra 9:00am - 3:30pm National Museum Lawson Crescent Acton Peninsula, Canberra Book for this event <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECeS.cfm?e=1mr-10-20f-27b73e> October 12 : Melbourne 9:00am - 3:30pm Sheraton Towers One Southgate Avenue Southbank, Melbourne Book for this event <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECeS.cfm?e=1mw-10-20f-27b73t> October 13 : Sydney 9:00am - 3:30pm Swissotel Sydney 68 Market Street, Sydney Book for this event <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECeS.cfm?e=1mv-10-20f-27b73t> October 15 : Auckland 9:00am - 3:30pm Hilton Auckland Princes Wharf 147 Quay Street, Auckland Book for this event <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECeS.cfm?e=1mq-10-20f-27b73g> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/email/img/novell_logo_wh.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> *Conditions apply - see terms and conditions <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECeS.cfm?e=1ms-10-20f-27b73j> . NSW Permit No TPL 04/08874. ACT Permit TP 04/3501 Novell values the privacy of our customers and partners. We only collect personal information provided by you that is necessary to perform our function and activities. We do not share your personal details with third parties without your consent. Information on our Privacy Policy can be found at www.novell.com/company/policies/privacy <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECeS.cfm?e=1mt-10-20f-27b73d> . If you no longer wish to receive electronic communications from Novell, please unsubscribe <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECUnsub.cfm?E=039d620f-2c-10&B=2ia> . We ensure that we only send you electronic messages that you agree to receive. 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FW: Firefox Presentation to Waikato Linux Users Group
by Craig Box 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

Craig Box wrote: > Hi Ben, > > Should have asked this earlier, but you wouldn't consider coming down > to Hamilton and presenting a talk about your involvement with Firefox > & the Mozilla Foundation to the Waikato Linux Users Group sometime, > would you? > > Probably a bit too late to do so for your current trip, but I assume > you're back every now and then? > > Let me know if it's the sort of thing you'd consider and if so, we'll > see what can be done! Hi Craig, Sorry for the delayed response I've been very busy these past few weeks. I'm fully booked for the next week so I won't be able to make it to Hamilton but I'll let you know I am speaking on Firefox at the University of Auckland (School of Engineering - 20 Symonds St - Room 3.402) on Monday 9/20 at high noon. Members of your group are welcome to attend. Regards, -- Ben Goodger <ben(a)mozilla.org> Lead Engineer, Mozilla Firefox +1 (650) 492 0729 The Mozilla Foundation 1350C Villa St Mountain View CA 94041

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Re: [wlug] Wireless TCP/IP
by Bill Rosoman 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

> You do have an Access point, right? No I am trying to do Ad-Hoc using 2 Wireless cards. Almost there! Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [wlug] Wireless TCP/IP
by Bill Rosoman 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

> It sounds like you're nearly there and your commands > look mostly > correct. A few suggestions and example commands <snip> Ok I tried the suggestions; I have setup the Windows machine on deb1 and chanel 6 that part is fine. Linux commands ifdown eth1 iwconfig eth1 mode Ad-Hoc essid "deb1" channel 6 ifconfig eth1 192.168.0.5 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.0.255 link established ping 192.168.0.1 PING 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. >From 192.168.0.5 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable >From 192.168.0.5 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable iwconfig eth1 eth1 IEEE 802.11b/g ESSID:"deb1" Nickname:"mordor" Mode:Ad-Hoc Channel:6 Cell: 9E:05:A8:9E:54:CF Bit Rate:11Mb/s Tx-Power=31 dBm Sensitivity=20/200 Retry min limit:8 RTS thr:2347 B Fragment thr:2346 B Encryption key:off Link Quality:196/0 Signal level:-55 dBm Noise level:-245 dBm Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 route -n Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 10.0.0.3 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 UH 1 0 0 sl0 192.168.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth1 127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 U 1 0 0 sl0 ifconfig eth1 eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:09:5B:C2:C7:1A inet addr:192.168.0.5 Bcast:192.168.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:48 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:5316 (5.1 Kb) Interrupt:10 Also Ethereal is looking for 192.168.0.1 using UDP and ARP If I remove WLAN and insert LAN I get ping 192.168.0.1 PING 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.549 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.328 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.322 ms So this is a big step in the right direction! Just the last step to go! Thanks Bill _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com

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Ubuntu 4.10 preview released
by Craig Box 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

Ubuntu is a new Linux distribution that brings together the breadth of Debian with a focused selection of packages, regular releases (every six months) and a commitment to security updates with 18 months of support for every release. (/me touches himself) http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/ http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/preview/ (incl. torrents) I've got the i386 iso on the way, should have it in an hour or so, will let people know how it goes. I will also arrange for some finished Ubuntu CDs to be shipped to the WLUG for distribution. Craig

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RE: [wlug] Ubuntu 4.10 preview released
by Gund Wehsling 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

Hi FYI - uBuntu translates to "humanity" or "the [collective] people" in Zulu. I had a smirk when I saw the distro being mentioned here this morning. Gund -----Original Message----- From: A. Pagaltzis [mailto:pagaltzis(a)gmx.de] Sent: Thursday, 16 September 2004 12:22 p.m. To: Waikato Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [wlug] Ubuntu 4.10 preview released * Oliver Jones <oliver(a)deeper.co.nz> [2004-09-16 01:40]: > I wish more distros compiled their apps as at least i586 > binaries. No one (or nearly no one) would attempt to use a > modern distro on a i386 anymore. Even 486 systems will be hard > to come by now. Slackware's packages are compiled for i486. Although I think it would be reasonable to compile the X-based stuff for i586 and better. Noone in their right mind is going to use a 486 as a desktop with GNOME. Regards, -- Aristotle "If you can't laugh at yourself, you don't take life seriously enough." _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Re: [wlug] Wireless TCP/IP
by Bill Rosoman 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

How can you "see" the AP? (ie, how are you trying to observe it) Have you given it an IP address in the same subnet as your network cards? Wireless Ad-Hoc PC to Notepad ----------------------------- Usng PC Windows ME Zyxel USB Wlan Dell Notepad; The wifi card's a Netgear WG511. www.netgear.com I have a Dell Notepad Inspiron 2650 Intel Chip running Mandrake 10 KDE 3.2 Kernel 2.6.3-7mdk To get wlan up ============== Setup Windows PC using manual IP 192.168.0.1 mask 255.255.255.0 wifi Ad-Hoc chanel 6 Run USB Wifi Linux as SU (root) kedit /etc/wlan/wlancfg-deb1 kedit /etc/modules.conf alias eth1 prism54 ifconfig eth1 inet 192.168.0.5 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.0.255 route add default gw 192.168.0.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 eth1 iwconfig eth1 ESSID "deb1" mode ad-hoc channel 6 /etc/pcmcia/network start eth1 Outcome ======= Have a strong connection between computers But cannot access computers or internet No IP address No Ping etc if I reboot using LAN everything OK (Samba, Internet) Results ------- Windows machine netstat shows nothing active ping 192.168.0.5 times out ping 192.168.0.1 excellent Linux machine apradar result eth1 Scan completed : NEW AP from accesspoint scan essid.length 4 ESSID:"deb1" Mode:Ad-Hoc 1 Encryption key:off Frequency:2.437GHz quality: -56 ping 192.168.0.1 PING 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. [1]+ Stopped ping 192.168.0.1 Hangs! iwlist eth1 scanning eth1 Scan completed : Cell 01 - Address: 42:F5:A8:9E:54:CF ESSID:"deb1" Mode:Ad-Hoc Encryption key:off Frequency:2.437GHz Quality:190/0 Signal level:-55 dBm Noise level:-245 dBm route Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 10.0.0.3 * 255.255.255.255 UH 1 0 0 sl0 127.0.0.0 * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo default * 0.0.0.0 U 1 0 0 sl0 Does not show eth1? iwspy eth1 eth1 Statistics collected: 00:00:00:00:28:C2 : Quality:0 Signal level:0 Noise level:0 Link/Cell/AP : Quality:188/0 Signal level:-53 dBm Noise level:-5 dBm (updated) Typical/Reference : Quality:0/0 Signal level:-80 dBm Noise level:-256 dBm iwconfig lo no wireless extensions. eth0 no wireless extensions. eth1 IEEE 802.11b/g ESSID:"deb1" Nickname:"mordor" Mode:Ad-Hoc Channel:6 Cell: 42:F5:A8:9E:54:CF Bit Rate:11Mb/s Tx-Power=31 dBm Sensitivity=20/200 Retry min limit:8 RTS thr:2347 B Fragment thr:2346 B Encryption key:off Link Quality:177/0 Signal level:-53 dBm Noise level:-32 dBm Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 sl0 ESSID:off/any Nickname:"" NWID:8 Channel:80 Access Point: FF:BF:21:00:00:00 Bit Rate=-1.07375e+06kb/s Tx-Power=-1073746380 dBm Sensitivity=8/0 Retry:on RTS thr=-1073746380 B Fragment thr=-1073746380 B Encryption key:0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000 Power Management:on NB sl0 is my Modem cat /proc/net/dev Inter-| Receive | Transmit face |bytes packets errs drop fifo frame compressed multicast|bytes packets errs drop fifo colls carrier compressed lo: 24920 364 0 0 0 0 0 0 24920 364 0 0 0 0 0 0 eth0: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 eth1: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4082 31 0 0 0 0 0 0 sl0: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9990 121 0 0 0 0 0 0 Ethereal Sending ARP packets to 127.255.255.255 So now I have a couple of issues. TIA Bill _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com

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Unsubscribed email addresses
by Craig Box 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

Two messages today (Phil and Bill) from email addresses that are not subscribed to the list, were dropped. Please check when you are posting to the list that you are posting from the address you receive mail to! If you need to, you can subscribe multiple addresses and only receive mail to one. Craig

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Re: [wlug] I am stuck at the command line.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

My computer said it thinks it needs some firmware and suggested a site. I am downloading this then will try to install. I found out off list that pointing and click works well, is this the road to which you were re-fering Craig? Also suggested (another point and click) is to use microsoft NDIS wrapper for wlan and kernel. Regards John PS Matt your emails are still coming to me as an off list item. I have no idea why. > > > > There are often many tricky ways to make hardware work > > on Linux, or one easy "just go down the road that makes > > it work" option. > > > > Craig

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RE: iHug / Wired Country
by Gerwin van de Steeg 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

Hmm, Ihug/Wired Country wireless We've had this now for about 2+ years now, and has been working fine. Upto the last couple of months that is, starting at about the time the VoIP presentation was held at our premises. The link quality has been reduced, I've been asked to switch to a different network and back (different static ip's) whilst the gear was replaced. We've had some of the radio gear in Church Rd, Ngaruawahia, and on the Hospital die, all in the past month. One of the occasions when a radio unit had been replaced, we noticed that the unit only had a maximum arp table of 7 entries which took 3 hours to get fixed. Whilst the connections were organized by Go!Live, we had an afterhours contact phone number (the guy still works there but I'm not obliged to give people his cellphone number, and he hates being called when he's holding an arial and standing on someone's roof). Since then, the afterhours and weekend support have gone down the drain. We're now getting frequent outages ranging from a couple of minutes at 20+% packet loss, to 16+ hours of 100% packet loss. Ping times are bouncing like a maniac instead of being in a reasonably steady range. We've resorted to using nagios to monitor our incoming link and report errors and warnings, which result in me receiving on avergae about 20-30 emails a day during weekdays with respect to packet loss on the link, or ping responses exceeding 500ms. When it is working however, on a good clear sunny day, our guaranteed 512k link can get speeds much greater than this (approx ~2mb is my best sofar). Now, all the problems started to occur when we shifted to the Te Rapa area of Hamilton, we had no problems in Hillcrest. GerwinVanDeSteeg

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Apache 1.3.27, PHP 4.1.2 & RHEL 2.1
by Oliver Jones 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

I've identified my problem with Apache crashing in response to HUP and USR1 signals. As suggested it appears to be PHP's fault. If I removed php from the equation the crashes go away. I've filed a bug with RedHat describing the problem. Hopefully they release an errata soon. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132488 Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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RE: [wlug] iHug / Wired Country
by David Nicholls 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Well ive been with satlan for about two years now, maybe about 3 outages total. When I ring them (almost anytime too) instant friendly response and they can usually tell me what they think the prob is too. Setup: This includes installing linux on a box for you (if you wish) as a router/web server/firewall/whatever/the aerial, first months rent, fixed ip addr (telecom don't give that usually from what I see), ... And as I said before for me service ranks way up there, and I will pay just for that. I don't know what their boundries are sadly. Id suggest ringing them. Cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Lawson [mailto:daniel(a)meta.net.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 14 September 2004 11:43 am Subject: Re: [wlug] iHug / Wired Country Joseph Gibbs wrote: >thats fine if one wants to pray $450 for setup... (according to their >website) And paying a lower setup is fine if you want to put up with connectivity and packet loss issues :) Daniel

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I am stuck at the command line.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

I am attempting to install a driver set for my usb wireless adapter. The instructions I have are: ********************************************************* *** SMC WLan USB Card 11Mbps *** *** Linux Device Driver *** ********************************************************* 1. Install driver a) untar the package using the command: ---> tar zxvf SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W.tar.gz b) cd SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W c) ./setup.sh 2. Support a) Support RedHat 7.1, Redhat 7.2, Redhat 7.3 b) linux-kernel 2.4.17, 2.4.18 3. Module Parameters| --------------------| |------ In order to reconfigure the USB card you have to use one of the applications which comes with the driver. fvnet(command line utility) or xvnet (a graphical interface for the X windows), or the wireless tools (not tested and not recommended). For help for the fvnet and xvnet applications use the corresponding man pages. (man xvnet or man fvnet). Some of my attempts to write a command are: john(a)linux:~> su Password: linux:/home/john # ---> tar zxvf SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W.tar.gz bash: ---: command not found linux:/home/john # / tar zxvf SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W.tar.gz bash: /: is a directory linux:/home/john # tar zxvf SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662.tar.gz tar: SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662.tar.gz: Cannot open: No such file or directory tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now tar: Child returned status 2 tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors linux:/home/john # The folder is called SMC2662WV2 Linux.tar.gz Clicking this folder gives SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W Which shows on the location bar: tar:/home/john/SMC2662WV2_Linux.tar.gz I THINK that I am only a keystroke or two from getting this :-( Regards John

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Re: [wlug] I am stuck at the command line.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Negative, We did try but time and the possibility that we needed drivers was against us. I am now trying to set up a SuSE distro. I am SO looking for that road that makes it work. in the meantime I will take the feel good points for actually typing a couple of commands (albeit list assisted) correctly. Regards John. ----- Original Message Follows ----- > > Cool, I got the thing to extract and setup. I thought I > > would be tricky and run "iwconfig" > > but it reports back no wireless devices. I guess I need > > to read up some more before proceeding further. At least > > I made some progress. > > Thanks for the help so far. Regards John > > Without wanting to sound unhelpful, we got this wireless > card working at the Installfest, did we not? > > There are often many tricky ways to make hardware work on > Linux, or one easy "just go down the road that makes it > work" option. > > Craig > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Re: [wlug] I am stuck at the command line.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Cool, I got the thing to extract and setup. I thought I would be tricky and run "iwconfig" but it reports back no wireless devices. I guess I need to read up some more before proceeding further. At least I made some progress. Thanks for the help so far. Regards John ----- Original Message Follows ----- > > On Tue, 2004-09-14 at 15:44, Matt Brown wrote: > > Hi John, > > > > I'll step through and point out what was wrong with each > > command. > > On Tue, 2004-09-14 at 15:24, jaytee(a)clear.net.nz wrote: > > > > > linux:/home/john # ---> tar zxvf > > > SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W.tar.gz > > > bash: ---: command not found > > .. > > > > linux:/home/john # / tar zxvf > > > SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W.tar.gz bash: /: is a directory > > > > I'm not quite sure where the / here comes from, it is > > what is causing the problem. > > > > > linux:/home/john # tar zxvf > > > SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662.tar.gz tar: > > > SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662.tar.gz: Cannot open: No such > file or directory > > > 6) If you can see the filename > > SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662.tar.gz in the output of the > previous command continue, otherwise go back to step 1 > > It looks like those filenames are subtly different. > SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W.tar.gz versus > SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662.tar.gz (without a "W" following the > 2662). Make sure you use the correct one for the "tar" > command, depending on what the file is actually called. > > John McPherson > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > [Attachment: jrm21(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz.sig]

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iHug / Wired Country
by Joseph Gibbs 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Hi, Looking at getting wireless internet and phone package from wired country, through ihug. Will probably get the 1 or 2mbit deal. Has anyone had any experiences with them? I checked the wlug pages, not much info about them though. I'm interested in the quality of service they provide, and any other experinces you could share for/against getting this service. thanks, Joseph.

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RE: [wlug] iHug / Wired Country
by Lindsay Druett 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Few Internet outages here and there is one thing, but phone outages is another thing. > Isn't all that crash hot? My flatmates and I have got 1Mbps to burn, > no packet loss and sub 30ms pings, for $65 per month. True, > there are > a few more outages, just means we do something else for a while. > > Wireless is fairly solid and it's getting better all the time. > > Cheers, > James. > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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RE: [wlug] iHug / Wired Country
by Lindsay Druett 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

I bet you can't do that at my place :) > > Isn't all that crash hot? My flatmates and I have got 1Mbps to burn, > no packet loss and sub 30ms pings, for $65 per month. True, > there are > a few more outages, just means we do something else for a while. > > Wireless is fairly solid and it's getting better all the time. > > Cheers, > James. > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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RE: [wlug] iHug / Wired Country
by Lindsay Druett 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

> > WC have there own licenced spectrum, this helps. > Using own licenced spectrum definitely helps, but how many customers can you cater for in one direction with one PoP ? > > Cell phones are fairly commonplace, I would imagine most > cellphone towers > have generators? My point being that there is more than one > way to kill > a cat. Yeah, but cellphone coverage is not really that great, it's okay, but more often than not, when I am on a cellphone, I end having to go outdoors for a better signal or at least move around. Batteries go flat at the wrong time, maybe I jinxed with cellphones.... However, not great in an emergency. The cellphone is a good idea to an extend, but there is a lot of "what ifs" in my view. I'm not trying to be the party pooper here, after all, I have been playing with this stuff, check out www.lindsay.wired.net.nz/projects/sip/ but when there is an essential service involved, I am in favour of using tried and proven methods. > > Telecom sux, give the competition a go. God knows the > government isn't > helping in this area. > Have a look at www.llu.wired.net.nz - I agree with what you're saying, I can see why iHUG is providing this service, but at the end of the day I am not going to direct customers, friends, or whatever down a technology path that isn't all that crash hot - it won't do anyone a favour, in fact it will make Telecom look really good. If wireless was going really solve the local access issue and do a just as good if not better job than a wired local loop system, then the local loop unbundling proposal would have never been considered, in fact Telecom would have ditched the wired local loop system and gone wireless themselves.

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RE: [wlug] iHug / Wired Country
by David Nicholls 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Try satlan. Hell im on the 128k plan and find it great. Bugger all outages and I can ring these guys almost any time of day. Sadly I don't believe they do a phone service but the customer service is bloody good. www.Satlan.co.nz Cheers... david -----Original Message----- Joseph Gibbs wrote: >Hi, >Looking at getting wireless internet and phone package from wired >country, through ihug. Will probably get the 1 or 2mbit deal. Has >anyone had any experiences with them? I checked the wlug pages, not >much info about them though. I'm interested in the quality of service >they provide, and any other experinces you could share for/against >getting this service.

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Waikato Linux Users Group Incorporated Committee for 2005
by Craig Box 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

Congratulations to the following people, who were tonight voted in as the Executive Committee for the WLUG for 2005: President: Greig McGill Vice-President: Perry Lorier Treasurer: Craig McKenna Secretary: Craig Box General Committee: Matt Brown Kyle Carter Jamie Curtis Gian Perrone John McPherson The minutes are now available at http://www.wlug.org.nz/MeetingTopics.2004-09-13. Thanks to everyone who came. Craig

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Weird SEGV with Apache.
by Oliver Jones 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

Howdy. I'm getting a weird problem with Apache on a RHEL2.1 box I have. It does on the _second_ HUP or USR1 signal it receives. So ever two days logrotate kills it. It seems to be dying when PHP reloads for the second time. Anyone have any useful ideas on how to track this problem down more precisely? End of strace log: fstat64(8, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=27598, ...}) = 0 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4046e000 read(8, "[PHP]\n\n;;;;;;;;;;;\n; WARNING ;\n;"..., 8192) = 8192 read(8, "time notices (these are warnings"..., 8192) = 8192 read(8, ".dll\n;extension=php_mysql.dll\nex"..., 8192) = 8192 read(8, " persistent links. -1 means no "..., 8192) = 3022 read(8, "", 4096) = 0 read(8, "", 8192) = 0 ioctl(8, SNDCTL_TMR_TIMEBASE or TCGETS, 0xbffe2e10) = -1 ENOTTY (Inappropriate ioctl for device) close(8) = 0 munmap(0x4046e000, 4096) = 0 open("/etc/protocols", O_RDONLY) = 8 fcntl64(8, F_GETFD) = 0 fcntl64(8, F_SETFD, FD_CLOEXEC) = 0 fstat64(8, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=5834, ...}) = 0 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4046e000 read(8, "# /etc/protocols:\n# $Id: protoco"..., 4096) = 4096 close(8) = 0 munmap(0x4046e000, 4096) = 0 open("/etc/protocols", O_RDONLY) = 8 fcntl64(8, F_GETFD) = 0 fcntl64(8, F_SETFD, FD_CLOEXEC) = 0 fstat64(8, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=5834, ...}) = 0 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4046e000 read(8, "# /etc/protocols:\n# $Id: protoco"..., 4096) = 4096 close(8) = 0 munmap(0x4046e000, 4096) = 0 geteuid32() = 0 getpid() = 8935 shmget(IPC_PRIVATE, 33554432, IPC_CREAT|0600) = 14516227 shmat(14516227, 0, 0) = 0x4292e000 shmctl(14516227, IPC_64|IPC_STAT, 0xbffe3a00) = 0 getuid32() = 0 getgid32() = 0 shmctl(14516227, IPC_64|IPC_SET, 0xbffe3a00) = 0 shmctl(14516227, IPC_64|IPC_RMID, 0) = 0 unlink("/tmp/session_mm_apache0.sem") = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) open("/tmp/session_mm_apache0.sem", O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_EXCL, 0600) = 8 fcntl64(8, F_SETFD, FD_CLOEXEC) = 0 getpid() = 8935 fcntl64(8, F_SETLKW, {type=F_WRLCK, whence=SEEK_SET, start=0, len=0}) = 0 fcntl64(8, F_SETLKW, {type=F_UNLCK, whence=SEEK_SET, start=0, len=0}) = 0 open("/usr/lib/php4/imap.so", O_RDONLY) = 9 read(9, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0\360\20"..., 1024) = 1024 fstat64(9, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=1453914, ...}) = 0 old_mmap(NULL, 771468, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 9, 0) = 0x4492e000 mprotect(0x449e7000, 13708, PROT_NONE) = 0 old_mmap(0x449e7000, 16384, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 9, 0xb8000) = 0x449e7000 close(9) = 0 open("/usr/kerberos/lib/libgssapi_krb5.so.2", O_RDONLY) = 9 read(9, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0000J\0\000"..., 1024) = 1024 fstat64(9, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=91717, ...}) = 0 old_mmap(NULL, 74532, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 9, 0) = 0x408fe000 mprotect(0x4090f000, 4900, PROT_NONE) = 0 old_mmap(0x4090f000, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 9, 0x10000) = 0x4090f000 close(9) = 0 open("/usr/kerberos/lib/libkrb5.so.3", O_RDONLY) = 9 read(9, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0\200\362"..., 1024) = 1024 fstat64(9, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=432826, ...}) = 0 old_mmap(NULL, 363904, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 9, 0) = 0x449eb000 mprotect(0x44a41000, 11648, PROT_NONE) = 0 old_mmap(0x44a41000, 12288, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 9, 0x55000) = 0x44a41000 close(9) = 0 open("/usr/kerberos/lib/libk5crypto.so.3", O_RDONLY) = 9 read(9, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0\360 \0"..., 1024) = 1024 fstat64(9, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=78765, ...}) = 0 old_mmap(NULL, 68148, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 9, 0) = 0x44a44000 mprotect(0x44a53000, 6708, PROT_NONE) = 0 old_mmap(0x44a53000, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 9, 0xe000) = 0x44a53000 close(9) = 0 open("/usr/kerberos/lib/libcom_err.so.3", O_RDONLY) = 9 read(9, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0P\t\0\000"..., 1024) = 1024 fstat64(9, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=8653, ...}) = 0 old_mmap(NULL, 8584, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 9, 0) = 0x406ad000 mprotect(0x406ae000, 4488, PROT_NONE) = 0 old_mmap(0x406ae000, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 9, 0) = 0x406ae000 close(9) = 0 stat64("/etc/cram-md5.pwd", 0xbffe39e0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/dev/urandom", {st_mode=S_IFCHR|0644, st_rdev=makedev(1, 9), ...}) = 0 open("/usr/share/ssl/openssl.cnf", O_RDONLY) = 9 fstat64(9, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=7338, ...}) = 0 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4046e000 read(9, "#\n# OpenSSL example configuratio"..., 4096) = 4096 read(9, "onName_default\t= World Wide Web "..., 4096) = 3242 read(9, "", 4096) = 0 close(9) = 0 munmap(0x4046e000, 4096) = 0 --- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0) --- chdir("/etc/httpd") = 0 rt_sigaction(SIGSEGV, {SIG_DFL}, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0 getpid() = 8935 kill(8935, SIGSEGV) = 0 sigreturn() = ? (mask now [RTMIN]) --- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0) --- -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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Daemon monitoring tools.
by Oliver Jones 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

Hi guys. Way back in the ancient mists of time I remember seeing some daemon monitoring app. I can't remember what it was called though. It basically was a tool that ensured that particular daemons on a host were always running. Ie, if they crashed or whatever the monitoring app ran the appropriate rc script to restart them. Anyone know what I'm talking about or a good app that does this? Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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RE: [wlug] New Workstation Hardware Advice
by David Nicholls 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

Hi gund, I must say I agree with oliver on this topic... The athlon cpu could well be the way to go. Most of the processors (to coin a phrase) "honk along" at VERY nice speeds. The physics dept at the waikato uni uses almost exclusively a64s. Hoever the 32 bit cpus are just as good and I believe they are going to be dual coreing them in the near future. There are some VERY nice mobos out for these boards... www.tomshardware.com is a good place to go for reviews of chips, boards and gfx cards... They not only test on win systems but a linux build as well so you get an idea of how much trouble they went to to get things working. Basically you need to have a look, have a think about the details of what you want in your system, then come back and ask us if its any good and we can tear it to shreds for you:) Just don't forget the floppy drive ;) Cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Gund Wehsling [mailto:Gund.Wehsling(a)computerland.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2004 11:56 am Subject: [wlug] New Workstation Hardware Advice Hi I am thinking about getting a new workstation for study/development. It will be a beast. Apart form the favourable reviews of NVidia graphics cards here, are there any preferences to motherboards? IDE RAID controllers? I have been living in laptop land for a while now and have lost contact with desktop options and hardware. Ideally, the desktop will have 3GHz Processor or thereabouts 4GB RAM 2x120GB hard drives (one for mirror / backup) DVD Writer The machine will primarily be used for VMs, so throughput would be nice and the RAM _needs_ to be big. Also, as I am a struggling NetWare engineer, a nice place that sells this and helps with finance would be a plus. Any thoughts in this direction, assume I am ignorant please. Many thanks Gund

4 3

Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD
by Craig Box 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 22:02 +0000, Felix Hohener wrote: > Craig > > Just tried this, but I am not going anywhere. Is there any password involved > in the log on or just "user(a)jetstreamgames.co.nz" and nothing else? You need to specify a password I believe, but it can be anything. The username can also be anything as long as it ends with @jetstreamgames.co.nz You can then log in but only connect a range of selected IPs for games servers, including ftp.jetstreamgames.co.nz - make sure that whatever DNS server you're using is inside this list of IPs. You can use jetstreamgames's DNS server at 203.96.91.1 Craig

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ANNOUNCEMENT: Annual General Meeting, TONIGHT 7:00pm
by Craig Box 12 Sep '04

12 Sep '04

In accordance with Rule 6 of the charter, I would like to remind all members that the Waikato Linux Users Group (Incorporated) will be holding its Annual General Meeting *tonight* at 7pm, at the Crawshaw School Multi Purpose Room (the hall, where the Installfest was held, is unavailable, so we've moved to a replacement room. It will be signposted.) Doors will open about 6:45pm; please be prompt. Remember your $20 subscription fee. Craig

1 0

WLUG Meeting is on monday
by Meeting Reminder bot 09 Sep '04

09 Sep '04

The WLUG meeting is on monday ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This meeting, on a different date to the regular September meeting, is the 2004 [Annual General Meeting|AGM] of the [Waikato Linux Users Group Incorporated|WlugIncorporated]. * Venue: CrawshawSchool Multi-Purpose Room * Time: 7pm (Doors open 6:45, please be prompt). * Remember: [your $20 2004-2005 membership fee|http://www.wlug.org.nz/JoinWlug] Agenda: # Apologies # [Minutes of the previous AGM|MeetingTopics.2003-09-22] (22 September 2003) # Matters arising # Chairman's report # Treasurer's report # [Election of Officers|WlugElections] # General Business Please note that nominations are now being taken through the WlugElections page.

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RE: [wlug] New Workstation Hardware Advice
by Gund Wehsling 09 Sep '04

09 Sep '04

I am only familiar with VMWare. But open to new ideas. So this is what I do: A customer wants wot make xyz work with abc in his specific environment. So I build the system in a VMWare session and prove it works before going out to the site and implimenting the change, a nice way to do things on a limited budget. Also, I have pre-built machines in a virtual lab that I use to test new software for campatibility reasons etc. If there is another way to do that, then that would be great. It would also be nice to say I have a desktop with 4GB of RAM, but we can get into that later;-) Gund -----Original Message----- From: Oliver Jones [mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz] Sent: Wed 8/09/2004 12:40 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: Re: [wlug] New Workstation Hardware Advice > Apart form the favourable reviews of NVidia graphics cards here, are > there any preferences to motherboards? IDE RAID controllers? I have > been living in laptop land for a while now and have lost contact with > desktop options and hardware. > > Ideally, the desktop will have > > 3GHz Processor or thereabouts > 4GB RAM > 2x120GB hard drives (one for mirror / backup) > DVD Writer Perhaps you would be best with an Athlon 64 based system? Not sure how well nVidia works with 64bit Linux though. From what I know (which is little) they have a very fast FSB etc. If you only want to go 32bit then 800Mhz FSB P4's are quite nice. I have a P4 2.6Ghz Intel i865 based system under my desk. It performs quite nicely. > The machine will primarily be used for VMs, so throughput would be > nice and the RAM _needs_ to be big. By VMs I take it you mean Virtual Machines. Are you planning on using User Model Linux or VMWare? Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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New Workstation Hardware Advice
by Gund Wehsling 08 Sep '04

08 Sep '04

Hi I am thinking about getting a new workstation for study/development. It will be a beast. Apart form the favourable reviews of NVidia graphics cards here, are there any preferences to motherboards? IDE RAID controllers? I have been living in laptop land for a while now and have lost contact with desktop options and hardware. Ideally, the desktop will have 3GHz Processor or thereabouts 4GB RAM 2x120GB hard drives (one for mirror / backup) DVD Writer The machine will primarily be used for VMs, so throughput would be nice and the RAM _needs_ to be big. Also, as I am a struggling NetWare engineer, a nice place that sells this and helps with finance would be a plus. Any thoughts in this direction, assume I am ignorant please. Many thanks Gund

2 1

SuSE 9.0 Server ISOs have arrived
by Gund Wehsling 07 Sep '04

07 Sep '04

Good Day If you would like a copy of SuSE 9.0 Server ISOs I have a good verified copy of all 6. These are the same as the ISOs from Novells site and are 90-day limited. They will be the basis of a small business project I would like to start investigating from October and discussing here. I would be happy to cut you a copy if required - there are 6 all together - it may take time, but will be heaps quicker than downloading them yourself. Gund

1 0

Dual head vid card for FC2
by Jodi Thomson 07 Sep '04

07 Sep '04

I've just upgraded to Fedora Core 2 and my old dual head config of a RIVA TNT2 & S3 Trio64 no longer wants to work for some unknown reason. To that end I'm looking at buying a new dual head card to replace them with. I've tried a MGA G400 with limited success as the secondary display is blotchy. I've tried googling for xorg supported hardware with little to no results. Can anyone suggest a card that will work? Cheers Jodi ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- Jodi W. Anderson, Mr (BA, A+, MCP) - Computer Systems Consultant Waikato University Library - Computing Operations Group Ph: +64 7 838 4323 email: jodi(a)waikato.ac.nz "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before."

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is Mgetty the right tool ?
by Gavin Denby 07 Sep '04

07 Sep '04

I am planning to add to my network again, to allow me to test stuff, and to allow me a remote access to my network. Basically I plan to be my own isp. I have jetstream at home, and I can access it from machines on the network, No problem. What I want to do net is to set up a server that I can dial into over my cellphone when I am away from the office and become part of the network This means I wish to access, not only my Internet, but also all my shared directories ... etc, It looks like mgetty will do this, has anyone done something like this before. Mostly it will be on an internal pabx line for testing purposes, and will give a basic 33.6k connection to the network. other than the obvious security risks, and slow speed, are there any pitfalls I should be aware of or better tools/methods I should consider. -- "Engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance." Dr A R Dykes.

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Sendmail... huge queue.
by Oliver Jones 06 Sep '04

06 Sep '04

I've noticed that my sendmail daemon has loads (57,000+) files in it's mqueue directory. I'm also getting lots of "grew WorkList for /var/spool/mqueue to 5000" type messages in my logs. I guess these log messages are related in some manner to the huge number of old messages in the mqueue dir. I was just looking at some of these messages and they date back quite a while. Back to June etc. Why has sendmail not purged these failed or delayed messages? I also note that I get quite a lot of: sendmail[29533]: i6IGZcl12816: to=<er(a)deeper.co.nz>, delay=49+11:13:30, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=cyrus, pri=121373, relay=localhost, dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown sendmail[29533]: i6IGZcl12816: i863nAl29533: DSN: User unknown sendmail[29533]: i863nAl29533: to=<paulfrenchvn(a)base.yonsei.ac.kr>, delay=00:00:03, xdelay=00:00:03, mailer=esmtp, pri=31301, relay=base.yonsei.ac.kr. [165.132.77.200], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown sendmail[29533]: i863nAl29533: i863nAm29533: return to sender: User unknown sendmail[29533]: i863nAm29533: to=postmaster, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=cyrus, pri=31401, relay=localhost [[UNIX: /var/imap/socket/lmtp]], dsn=5.6.0, stat=Service unavailable sendmail[29533]: i863nAl29533: Losing ./qfi863nAl29533: savemail panic sendmail[29533]: i863nAl29533: SYSERR(root): savemail: cannot save rejected email anywhere Fortunately this is primarily because of spam but shouldn't the double bounce at least be delivered to postmaster on hostility? I set up a specific account for postmaster on our cyrus IMAP server. And it certainly gets a lot of other spam and virus bounces. Perhaps this is all related somehow? Anyone here experience in the black art of sendmail who might be able to enlighten me? Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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ANNOUNCEMENT: Annual General Meeting, 13 Sep (2 weeks today)
by Craig Box 06 Sep '04

06 Sep '04

In accordance with Rule 6 of the charter, I would like to remind all members that the Waikato Linux Users Group (Incorporated) will be holding its Annual General Meeting on Monday, 13 September, 2004, at 7pm, at the Crawshaw School Hall (the same location as the Installfest.) All WLUG members are encouraged to make nominations for the WLUG committee for 2005. The charter specifies the committee as consisting of a President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer, and five general committee members. We are accepting nominations via the web page http://www.wlug.org.nz/WlugElections. The conditions of nomination are: * You shouldn't nominate yourself. (If you want to stand, post a note on the bottom of the page asking for someone to nominate you.) * You can only nominate or second someone if you are currently a 2003-2004 paid up member. * You can only vote at the upcoming AGM if you were a 2003-2004 paid up member, and have signed a new membership form for 2004-2005 (remember, you have 90 days to pay.) If you're at all interested, please ask someone to nominate you! Regards, Craig

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Re: SUse v FC2
by Craig Box 05 Sep '04

05 Sep '04

(also CC'd to wlug-list for interest) Hi Gun, > I'm investigating a server for my NW of 6-8 workstations. Do you > think FC2 or SuSE as a server for file and printer sharing? Is SUse > free like FC2 is? SUSE is free in the same way that all Linuxes are; they're built on GPL components, but some distributions are not necessarily made available the same way as others. You can download SUSE as a Knoppix-like live CD, a single CD "personal" distribution (that isn't what you want for a server) or you can get the packages for other versions of SUSE from their FTP site, and install it manually. You could also find people who have a copy locally, I'm expect Gund or Michael Cree will be able to help. Of those two I would recommend Fedora Core here - this is my personal recommendation, as I know it and like it and I can't really say the same about SUSE. As for "the recommendation of the LUG as a whole", if you're prepared to do everything from the command line and do a lot of learning, you still can't go past Debian. There will be a new version called "Sarge" (3.1) released in a couple of months; you can get a recent ISO file of the installer and go from there, downloading more recent packages off the Internet, or you could install Woody (3.0) and wait till Sarge is released and release over the top, etc.. A large reason people that moved away from Red Hat to Debian on their servers is that Red Hat didn't have an automatic way of downloading and installing packages, and Debian did (apt-get). Now, Red Hat (in the form of the Fedora Project) has yum, apt-get and up2date to choose from, it's not really a problem any more. Also, there is more software packaged for Debian (11,000 packages or so) but for the ones that you regularly need, they're all available in 3rd parties repositories for Fedora. >From my estimates of your experience, I think you couldn't go past Fedora Core. FC3 is also coming out in a couple of months time. Craig

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RE: [wlug] SUSE Personal 9.1 review
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 03 Sep '04

03 Sep '04

Yes it is, right under NZ. I don't think you got that far because of no dial up connection > > CHAT means Chatham Islands. Thanks Wayne I wondered what NZ chat time was when I saw it there (silly noob) > And it's moot because it wasn't listed at all. > > Craig I installed SuSE onto my laptop and desktop. Got a couple of problems with the monitors not reporting there X Y's When I manually configured them (with the gooey)The laptop remains unaffected and keeps reporting the problem, the desktopnow proudly announces there have been changes at every boot. We have a dial up with free net They have a peculiar habit of killing the connection every three hours which has meant that the update has crashed a couple of times and now yast is reporting that it " could not write server list to disk abort update?" If anyone knows how to deal with this it would be nice to hear from them.. Regards John..

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RE: [wlug] SUSE Personal 9.1 review
by Gund Wehsling 03 Sep '04

03 Sep '04

Hi Thank you for the great review, I would like to make a few points known that are not obvious to first time installers of SuSE: New Zealand timezone is listed under the 'Global' section in the continent selector as NZ or NZ-CHAT. ACPI is still regarded as experimental and a message to this effect is displayed when you try to alter any power settings. The message says to enable ACPI before the settings will become available. ACPI is located in the last tab on the power screen and can be enabled. Once enabled, the power control and ACPI functions become available. The idea to make it small and accessible will make it small and accessible, so there is little room for 'nice to haves'. The target market is definitely not the general LINUX community, so there will be no compile tools and little command line stuff. I think the idea is that my mother could install it and use it well on her P1. It autodetects _most_ commercially available hardware and is a great alternative to a couple of hundred dollars worth of competitive products. Other than that I liked your review and would like to see more like this on lists like this. Many thanks Gund -----Original Message----- From: Craig Box [mailto:craig(a)dubculture.co.nz] Sent: Wed 1/09/2004 21:13 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: [wlug] SUSE Personal 9.1 review As pointed out on the SUSE page on the wiki, the German distribution SUSE has never had much of a following in New Zealand. With the purchase of Novell and the impending push in support that Novell will give for SUSE based products, and the new availability of a one-CD 'personal' edition, I thought I'd give SUSE a try. Installation The personal edition of SUSE comes on one CD, and it seems very positive from the start. Immediately upon boot you get a nice graphical splash screen, allowing you to either continue booting from the hard drive or install Linux, in normal or failsafe mode. It will attempt to automatically detect your screen resolution for the graphical installer, or you can pick one from a list. When YaST, the SUSE installer/setup tool loads, the good impressions continue. The installer is very much like the RedHat/FedoraProject installer, with help down the left side and the main options in a larger window on the right. It makes some judgements about your computer and offers a single click install. It detected a Windows partition and offered to shrink it and install into the newly created space, which would be an excellent option for new users. On my test machine, a P3-500 laptop with 192mb of RAM, I told it I wanted to manually override this and install to the whole hard drive. There are some niggles in the installer - you specify the time zone at this point, and there wasn't one for New Zealand at all! I had to select GMT+12 from an "Etc" list, but this won't account for daylight savings. At this point I should point out that the functionality available is limited by the fact this is a one CD distribution - you don't get GNOME, but SUSE has always been strongly aligned with KDE. The installer claimed it was going to install 1.4Gb of data - decent compression for a 700mb CD - and did so in a little over 45 minutes. The slide show was reasonably standard, offering screenshots and soundbites. KDE is referred to as "the comfortable desktop" - a comment on it's well known "resemblance" to MicrosoftWindows, I'm sure. The screenshots looked like they could do with being updated. They advertised Kopete and GAIM on the same screen - while it's nice to have options, it's also nice to have a 'best of breed'. (The personal edition doesn't actually have GAIM). Also, for a Windows user going through this setup, I think I'd like to see projects with less 'kooky' names. After a reboot, YaST continued with it's first boot routine, setting up user accounts and hardware. It complained about 'root' as a root password on two counts, being too short and containing the username. It also asked me to create a user account, and I notice it had auto-login on for that user. It also auto-detected the laptop's built in modem. After about an hour total, I had booted into SUSE. Desktop Experience Linux is Linux, and as a regular GNOME user, it's hard to judge a KDE desktop objectively. I'm not sure how much of the issues were SUSE and how much were KDE, but as SUSE are the major sponsor of KDE development I assume the two are interconnected somehow. The desktop is very reminiscent of Knoppix or Mandrake, but after an excellent looking setup routine, the default desktop was disappointing. The main fonts were too small and the OpenOffice fonts were too big. Changing the KDE fonts was simple; setting font size to 90% in OpenOffice made them look almost identical (more so than they do on Fedora), but it's not something that a normal user will be able to do. It's possibly not even something they'd notice. Desktop icons give you a nice tooltip, but they need to be single clicked, which isn't immediately clear. I had two of everything popping up straight away. For a personal edition desktop, it offers litlte more than three games - Enigma, Freeciv and Frozen Bubble. KDE on other distros ships with dozens of little games - I found it odd that they were all missing. Surely something like the LIRC client could be cleared to make way for Soko Ban. The SUSE help, built on the KDE help center, has a great manual built in, but it seems a little out of date, and it isn't customized for the personal edition. The desktop sharing stuff in KDE looked promising, if not a direct copy of the Remote Assistance feature in Windows. I'm glad to see the mail/contacts/calendar apps compiled into one application but it's hidden in the Office menu below "Document Viewer" and above "Office Suite", yet named "Kontact" and not "Groupware Client" or "Email/Contacts". Overall however the menu structure was far more contained than Fedora's mess, and more manageable than Knoppix by virtue of having less packages installed. As a personal edition I didn't check too far into the console - Aristotle suggests that it's crippled without a compiler, but I was trying to use locate and it didn't even have that! Surely it could have done away with something like the LIRC server in favour of a bit more power in the CLI. Hardware support YaST has some nice ideas - it has a "Load Vendor Driver CD" option for example, which would be great if vendors shipped driver CDs, but after the initial detection of the modem, I was let down by it saying that it needed the 'ltmodem' package, which wasn't on the CD. SUSE 9.1 Personal comes with Sun's Java, Acrobat Reader and RealPlayer, so they're obviously happy with licensing software. The lack of internet connectivity meant that, without a network card in the laptop, I couldn't go any further with internet access. Otherwise, YaST seems like a very clean interface for configuring a system, and isn't just a copy of Control Panel. Being built on the 2.6 kernel, I would have expected better laptop support as well. Closing the hood seemed to make no effect, either on AC power or on the battery. The ACPI options in YaST suggested that there was no ACPI support, and APM didn't do anything. Sound "just worked" - including software mixing in all the applications I tried, including the always tricky RealPlayer. I was very glad to see Noatun dropped in favour of xmms. Conclusion I have only seen little bits of Mandrake, but from what I have seen, as a KDE distribution it rivals SUSE on every strength, and now that YaST is open source, it could well have everything that SUSE Personal has to offer. If you're looking for something to give to your Mum, and you're a KDE fan, evaluate Mandrake along with SUSE. Personally, I hope the fact that SUSE is now under the same wing as Novell's Ximian team, means that we will see some of their great advances and ability to make simple tidy ups to a broken interface, applied to the SUSE desktop. _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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SUSE Personal 9.1 review
by Craig Box 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

As pointed out on the SUSE page on the wiki, the German distribution SUSE has never had much of a following in New Zealand. With the purchase of Novell and the impending push in support that Novell will give for SUSE based products, and the new availability of a one-CD 'personal' edition, I thought I'd give SUSE a try. Installation The personal edition of SUSE comes on one CD, and it seems very positive from the start. Immediately upon boot you get a nice graphical splash screen, allowing you to either continue booting from the hard drive or install Linux, in normal or failsafe mode. It will attempt to automatically detect your screen resolution for the graphical installer, or you can pick one from a list. When YaST, the SUSE installer/setup tool loads, the good impressions continue. The installer is very much like the RedHat/FedoraProject installer, with help down the left side and the main options in a larger window on the right. It makes some judgements about your computer and offers a single click install. It detected a Windows partition and offered to shrink it and install into the newly created space, which would be an excellent option for new users. On my test machine, a P3-500 laptop with 192mb of RAM, I told it I wanted to manually override this and install to the whole hard drive. There are some niggles in the installer - you specify the time zone at this point, and there wasn't one for New Zealand at all! I had to select GMT+12 from an "Etc" list, but this won't account for daylight savings. At this point I should point out that the functionality available is limited by the fact this is a one CD distribution - you don't get GNOME, but SUSE has always been strongly aligned with KDE. The installer claimed it was going to install 1.4Gb of data - decent compression for a 700mb CD - and did so in a little over 45 minutes. The slide show was reasonably standard, offering screenshots and soundbites. KDE is referred to as "the comfortable desktop" - a comment on it's well known "resemblance" to MicrosoftWindows, I'm sure. The screenshots looked like they could do with being updated. They advertised Kopete and GAIM on the same screen - while it's nice to have options, it's also nice to have a 'best of breed'. (The personal edition doesn't actually have GAIM). Also, for a Windows user going through this setup, I think I'd like to see projects with less 'kooky' names. After a reboot, YaST continued with it's first boot routine, setting up user accounts and hardware. It complained about 'root' as a root password on two counts, being too short and containing the username. It also asked me to create a user account, and I notice it had auto-login on for that user. It also auto-detected the laptop's built in modem. After about an hour total, I had booted into SUSE. Desktop Experience Linux is Linux, and as a regular GNOME user, it's hard to judge a KDE desktop objectively. I'm not sure how much of the issues were SUSE and how much were KDE, but as SUSE are the major sponsor of KDE development I assume the two are interconnected somehow. The desktop is very reminiscent of Knoppix or Mandrake, but after an excellent looking setup routine, the default desktop was disappointing. The main fonts were too small and the OpenOffice fonts were too big. Changing the KDE fonts was simple; setting font size to 90% in OpenOffice made them look almost identical (more so than they do on Fedora), but it's not something that a normal user will be able to do. It's possibly not even something they'd notice. Desktop icons give you a nice tooltip, but they need to be single clicked, which isn't immediately clear. I had two of everything popping up straight away. For a personal edition desktop, it offers litlte more than three games - Enigma, Freeciv and Frozen Bubble. KDE on other distros ships with dozens of little games - I found it odd that they were all missing. Surely something like the LIRC client could be cleared to make way for Soko Ban. The SUSE help, built on the KDE help center, has a great manual built in, but it seems a little out of date, and it isn't customized for the personal edition. The desktop sharing stuff in KDE looked promising, if not a direct copy of the Remote Assistance feature in Windows. I'm glad to see the mail/contacts/calendar apps compiled into one application but it's hidden in the Office menu below "Document Viewer" and above "Office Suite", yet named "Kontact" and not "Groupware Client" or "Email/Contacts". Overall however the menu structure was far more contained than Fedora's mess, and more manageable than Knoppix by virtue of having less packages installed. As a personal edition I didn't check too far into the console - Aristotle suggests that it's crippled without a compiler, but I was trying to use locate and it didn't even have that! Surely it could have done away with something like the LIRC server in favour of a bit more power in the CLI. Hardware support YaST has some nice ideas - it has a "Load Vendor Driver CD" option for example, which would be great if vendors shipped driver CDs, but after the initial detection of the modem, I was let down by it saying that it needed the 'ltmodem' package, which wasn't on the CD. SUSE 9.1 Personal comes with Sun's Java, Acrobat Reader and RealPlayer, so they're obviously happy with licensing software. The lack of internet connectivity meant that, without a network card in the laptop, I couldn't go any further with internet access. Otherwise, YaST seems like a very clean interface for configuring a system, and isn't just a copy of Control Panel. Being built on the 2.6 kernel, I would have expected better laptop support as well. Closing the hood seemed to make no effect, either on AC power or on the battery. The ACPI options in YaST suggested that there was no ACPI support, and APM didn't do anything. Sound "just worked" - including software mixing in all the applications I tried, including the always tricky RealPlayer. I was very glad to see Noatun dropped in favour of xmms. Conclusion I have only seen little bits of Mandrake, but from what I have seen, as a KDE distribution it rivals SUSE on every strength, and now that YaST is open source, it could well have everything that SUSE Personal has to offer. If you're looking for something to give to your Mum, and you're a KDE fan, evaluate Mandrake along with SUSE. Personally, I hope the fact that SUSE is now under the same wing as Novell's Ximian team, means that we will see some of their great advances and ability to make simple tidy ups to a broken interface, applied to the SUSE desktop.

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RE: [wlug] SUSE Personal 9.1 review
by Lindsay Druett 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

But alas, on all the Cisco courses I've been on (a couple of them led by instructors with CCIE) had Windows machines and were using Hyperterm. I've also seen to many people out in the field using Hyperterm. It's *very* sad... > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Lawson [mailto:daniel(a)meta.net.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 2 September 2004 09:55 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] SUSE Personal 9.1 review > > > Lindsay Druett wrote: > > >I guess minicom is a 'nice to have'. > > > >It certainly would have been nice for me to have when I wanted to > >connect my laptop/desktop into the console port of a Cisco device. > > > > > > > > Real Cisco engineers use cat. > > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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RE: [wlug] SUSE Personal 9.1 review
by Lindsay Druett 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

I guess minicom is a 'nice to have'. It certainly would have been nice for me to have when I wanted to connect my laptop/desktop into the console port of a Cisco device. Well, can't complain too much, at least joe (Joe's own editor) was part of the package. > The idea to make it small and accessible will make it small > and accessible, so there is little room for 'nice to haves'. > The target market is definitely not the general LINUX > community, so there will be no compile tools and little > command line stuff. I think the idea is that my mother could > install it and use it well on her P1. It autodetects _most_ > commercially available hardware and is a great alternative to > a couple of hundred dollars worth of competitive products. >

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Can some *please* explain this error
by Lindsay Druett 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

What's this error message all about when I'm trying todo the following apt-get install cyrus21-admin cyrus21-common cyrus21-clients cyrus21-doc cyrus21-imapd cyrus21-pop3d libcyrus-imap-perl21 sasl2-bin I get this error message... dpkg: syntax error: unknown group `Debian-exim' in statusoverride file E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)

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Modern software on old hardware
by Craig Box 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

I recently had a Celeron 500 that I wanted to install for my flatmate to use as an internet/email machine. All evidence points to the 2.6 kernel being better on old hardware than 2.4, and in general support for hardware increases as you have newer software, so I thought I'd try installing Fedora Core 2 (then test3) on the machine. I've heard good things about the XFCE desktop environment, so I installed that. The machine started out with 64mb of RAM and took an ice age to install (I think it's about the RPM database needing to be in RAM at install time). It quickly got upgraded to 192mb RAM, which isn't exactly "new modern specs" but is a machine that was better specced than many machines we had at the recent installfest. I ran a quick, responsive, usable desktop environment on a 286 at 10Mhz. Linux was basically unusable on this machine. Software took an age to load, you could hardly run two things at the same time, and it was constantly in swap. The options seemed to be "run Windows 98" (the OS the machine was originally shipped with), or get some sort of Linux distribution that was around the same age. The Fedora Legacy project provides security updates for Red Hat as far back as 7.3, but I really don't want to run old software. In the end I found a surprising third option - I installed Windows XP and turned off most of the flash visual bits and pieces, and ended up with a usable machine running modern software. Not something that I wanted to have to do! There's a long standing belief that Linux can be used to revitalise old hardware. Short of using a terminal server of some description (which wasn't an option in this case), is this true? Craig

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RE: [wlug] VOIP
by Lindsay Druett 30 Aug '04

30 Aug '04

Argh... This sounds so sad, yet another person wants to use a Windows machine as a SIP phone... Around $ 250.00 will buy you a Cisco ATA-186 phone adaptor and give you two phone lines... Visit www.fwd.pulver.com and download their IP Phone and connect up with them, get a phone number and try some of these phone numbers... http://www.wlug.org.nz/SIPDirectory You could also try www.stanaphone.com Here's my set up http://www.lindsay.wired.net.nz/projects/sip/ > -----Original Message----- > From: jaytee(a)clear.net.nz [mailto:jaytee(a)clear.net.nz] > Sent: Monday, 30 August 2004 17:01 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: [wlug] VOIP > > > Hi All, > Can anyone give me some simple instructions for a > windows 98 user to get internet telphone service here in NZ? > Regards John > > > info/wlug > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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VOIP
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 30 Aug '04

30 Aug '04

Hi All, Can anyone give me some simple instructions for a windows 98 user to get internet telphone service here in NZ? Regards John info/wlug

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Yoper
by s swami 29 Aug '04

29 Aug '04

I've just installed V2.0 (thinking it was 2.1). Yoper V2.0 comes with KDE 3.2.3 (V2.1 comes with KDE 3.3 and OpenOffice.org so I'll be visiting Copyleft soon). I have a small network and always use /etc/hosts rather than DHCP. I might have done something wrong (I know I didn't say "yes" to DHCP) so eth0 wasn't up. I fixed this by putting the appropriate ifconfigs in /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/S20network (RedHat-like rc configurations are scary!) SiS SI7012 audio works out-of-the-box. My wheel mouse was detected. (Hey, it's a big deal for me ok ;-) I'll have to set up my brother HL-1430 printer manually. And one small thing: Yoper is as responsive as W2K on this machine -- in fact, it is probably faster. Barring something major, Yoper will now be my desktop OS (just like they said it would :-) _Kudos to Andreas and his development team_ Sid.

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Filesystem Top.
by Oliver Jones 28 Aug '04

28 Aug '04

Heya. Anyone know of a tool that is like "top" but for showing the number of files a process has open. I know all about lsof. But I want something along the lines of: PID NAME OPENFILES 1234 httpd 20 5321 bash 5 ... Etc... Something I can sort by number of files open like you can sort top by memory or cpu usage. Anyone know of anything like this or knows how to get lsof and some grep/perl/awk filters to do something similar. Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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Yoper CD wanted
by s swami 27 Aug '04

27 Aug '04

Hi folks I've been meaning to test-drive Yoper for a while (and now it has KDE 3.3 :-) But I haven't been able to find a spot on yoper.com where I can buy a CD copy of the latest version and my 33k dial-up connection is a little shy about the bittorrent that has kindly been made available. Does someone have a CD? Happy to pay student prices :-) Cheers, Sid.

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CD issues
by Jared Wigmore 26 Aug '04

26 Aug '04

Hi, I regularly get the message, "hda: lost interrupt" (that's my cd drive). Additionally, it takes a long time to mount, and to access each directory/file. I'm using kernel 2.4 on RedHat 9. Any advice. ===== -- JaredWigmore -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GCM/CS/S d? s+++:-- a? C++++ UL++ P--- L++ E>+++ W++ N>+ o? K- w--- O? M-- V-- PS-- Y-- PGP- t+++ 5? X R* tv b++ DI D G e- h! !r z- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ http://www.wlug.org.nz/JaredWigmore http://AnswersInGenisis.org/ http://www.againsttcpa.com/ ---------------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com

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Linux challenges for students from IBM
by Craig Box 25 Aug '04

25 Aug '04

"College and university students can make improvements to Linux, create usability tools or enhancements, or design Linux applications. The goals of the contest are to: 1. Promote student use of Linux worldwide 2. Solve real-world Linux issues-make Linux better! 3. Design or develop an application using Linux Prizes will be awarded to the top 20 entries, judged by IBM Linux personnel. These 20 students will receive an IBM ThinkPad with Linux and will also have the opportunity to qualify for one of three summer 2005 Internships at our Linux Technology Center. There will also be a University Award, one (1) Linux 16-node "start-up" cluster, given to the university who has the highest overall average from their students' entries." http://www.developer.ibm.com/university/students/contests/linux/ Craig

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Linux Laptops.
by Oliver Jones 25 Aug '04

25 Aug '04

Recently I've been thinking about buying a laptop. I've been thinking about an Apple 17" G4 Powerbook but I figure that's just a little to far from the flock... ie, I'd have to find replacements for too much software I currently use. For serious stuff I currently use Linux (Fedora Core 1) and it's associated apps. For "play" I use Windows XP. On XP I mainly use things like DVD Decrypter, PowerDVD, etc. Media playback and storage utils basically. Occasionally I play some Windows games but I'd be happy enough with just my consoles for that. There are some things about buying a laptop that concern me. One is unsupported hardware in Linux. The others are screen size (I use a 21" CRT at the moment) and speed (current PC's is a 2.6Ghz P4s). Anyone here have any suggestions regarding desktop replacement Laptops that have very good hardware support on Linux? Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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RE: [wlug] Linux Laptops.
by David Nicholls 25 Aug '04

25 Aug '04

mind you are you aware that mandrake do a PPC version of 9.1? for both sale and free download (i have all three ISOs if anyone wants them by the way). unsure just how good it is but it is one option also there is the opendarwin project (OS X backend for them as is iggerant ;]) - bsd based of course. once again i have an ISO i downloaded out of interest if anybody is. cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Oliver Jones [mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 25 August 2004 11:58 am Subject: [wlug] Linux Laptops. Recently I've been thinking about buying a laptop. I've been thinking about an Apple 17" G4 Powerbook but I figure that's just a little to far from the flock... ie, I'd have to find replacements for too much software I currently use. For serious stuff I currently use Linux (Fedora Core 1) and it's associated apps. For "play" I use Windows XP. On XP I mainly use things like DVD Decrypter, PowerDVD, etc. Media playback and storage utils basically. Occasionally I play some Windows games but I'd be happy enough with just my consoles for that. There are some things about buying a laptop that concern me. One is unsupported hardware in Linux. The others are screen size (I use a 21" CRT at the moment) and speed (current PC's is a 2.6Ghz P4s). Anyone here have any suggestions regarding desktop replacement Laptops that have very good hardware support on Linux? Regards Oliver Jones

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sendmail issue
by Gavin Denby 24 Aug '04

24 Aug '04

I am setting up a simple sendmail replacement for an old redhat machine with a dying hard drive. I decided to use a newer distro and went to slackware. I have copied the old data from the sendmail.cf files over and everything runs well until I send a local mail from console. Instead of getting mail from user(a)domainname.com the machine name is added, and i get user(a)machinename.domainname.com Of course if you reply this gets to be a real mess. Clients accessing via pop are ok , its just local automated messages that are causing issues. I have set Dj$w.domainname.com I have commented out all classes. I added DMdomainname.com I made the start with M4, is there something I can add there that will fix this ?? I hoped Masquerade_as(domainname.com)dnl would be enough, but still the machine name appears in the mail address ... ARGHHH !!!!! I planned to add an auto mail tool, but not until this is fixed. What have I missed ??? -- "Engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance." Dr A R Dykes.

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WLUG Meeting is tonight
by Meeting Reminder bot 22 Aug '04

22 Aug '04

The WLUG meeting is this evening ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hacking your XBox - The Linux Way!. DrewBroadley (coming all the way from PalmerstonNorth) will cover Linux on an XBox, including using it as a media center. Don't miss this one! Location: CrawshawSchool Time: 7pm Doors will be open from ten to seven or so, presentation will start shortly after 7. __Topics__ How to Mod an XBOX: *Software Modifications *Hardware Modifications Xbox and Linux *Web/File/Media Server *Distros available Opensource Software and the XBOX *Xbox Media Center __Possible Extra Topics__ ''add your own suggestions''

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RE: [wlug] LINUX Servers in the SMB Workspace.
by Gund Wehsling 22 Aug '04

22 Aug '04

Hi Good points raised and not ones we are ignoring. To make sure we are not re-inventing the wheel, we have started a download of SuSE Standard Server 9 eval and once it is here, I will copy it and distribute it to all that are interested. In the meantime, a concensus needs to be reached as to what the server will support. I know that it would be nice to have a server that supplies all things to all people, but we feel that covering all bases may be too broad and it would be easier to sell a server solution that carries out basic although vital tasks, with ease, in such a way that the market comes to accept the solutions and products as stable and secure. For this reason and to keep things simple, we have a list of 'basics' that should be setup, standard and easy to use, troubleshoot and maintain, they are: DNS DHCP SAMBA / File and Print NETWORK SERVICES / Routing SECURITY / Firewall and authentication WEB / Proxy MAIL / IMAP and or Webmail The server design will be setup and tested as rigourisly as possible, fully documented, have a scripted install (or an aesy to follow install path that is well documented) that enables an easy setup / rebuild. The above services will become available within hours of arriving at a new site and with minimal 'tweaking / hacking'. The base idea that we don't want to lose here is that it must be easy to understand / support / install and must be reliable and stable enough that the end users start to change thier ideas about proprietry software and operating systems and the open source model is then promoted. Many of my customers are still 'fiddling' with LINUX and many of them are still concerned about what is a good desktop and what is a good word processor and I think that those discussions will go on forever until sombody realises that actual value of an installed and established system. So I am hoping we can spend time deciding on and testing and proving the best means of setting up and supplying the above services to sites that need them in a stable configuration at a fair cost in terms of resource (money or time). It has been my experience that most smaller companies will not really worry too much about what is running at the back-end and the mid to larger ones want clearly defined proceedures and best-practices before a solution can be considered, so as much as I hate paperwork, part of this project will be to supply those, as part of the bundle / solution. Now you can all start throwing chairs. Please address feedback direclty to the group unless it is trivial and please 'snip' this msg when replying. Many thanks Gund -----Original Message----- From: Oliver Jones [mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz] Sent: Fri 20/08/2004 16:50 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: Re: [wlug] LINUX Servers in the SMB Workspace. I personally think a turn key solution for SMB customers is a great idea. There are a few already out there already. The hardest thing I think you will find is defining exactly what features you solution should have. There is also a lot of work involved in making it self manageable. If you're going to offer management services as well that removes some of that integration work. Regards On Fri, 2004-08-20 at 15:10, Daniel Lawson wrote: >I will try to clarify what I asked yesterday and then we can start a chair fight. > > Excellent :) > >I am looking at starting a discussion / dialogue / knowledge transfer between all interested with the view to testing and building a single working solution that can be installed / sold to small to medium businesses. > >We (my colleagues and I) would like to build this on SuSE Server 9. At this moment, we think we have a viable product if we can all agree on what services this server will provide and how. Then, strip away the unnecessary packages and rpms till there is a 'standard' build that can easily be supported / installed. > > Ah, ok. Yes, this sounds like a good thing to work on. >I asked this becasue I wanted to get away from a discussions about desktop applications and processes and preferences and start focussing on an actual server product that can be sold or installed with the associated services. > > A wise move! >Anyhow, I hope this is not too vauge, nothing is actually written down yet, so we are starting fresh and anybody interested can join in or we can discuss it here if this forum will support that. > > As far as I'm concerned , it's fine to carry it on here, although it's trivial to move to another list if we find that it gets annoying. Daniel _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug <http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug> -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com <mailto:oliver.jones(a)deeperdesign.com> » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com <http://www.deeperdesign.com>

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RE: [wlug] SuSE 9.1 again
by Gund Wehsling 22 Aug '04

22 Aug '04

Hi Refresh my memory, what hardware are you using? Have you tried the 'safe mode' installations? Rgds Gund -----Original Message----- From: jaytee(a)clear.net.nz [mailto:jaytee(a)clear.net.nz] Sent: Sun 22/08/2004 13:24 To: wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Cc: Subject: [wlug] SuSE 9.1 again Hi All. After the SuSE failed to boot after a couple of install attempts I tried the Knoppix live C/D. It did not boot either and showed a page of I/O errors then locked on the Knoppix splash screen. <snip>

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(no subject)
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 22 Aug '04

22 Aug '04

Hi All. After the SuSE failed to boot after a couple of install attempts I tried the Knoppix live C/D. It did not boot either and showed a page of I/O errors then locked on the Knoppix splash screen. I reinstalled SuSE again making sure that the Linux partions were formatted (yes) This time the programme did run with one error on screen. Resolution x and y not entered fonts may be affected. What do I need to do to solve that? Also the modem is not configured correctly. Stupid mode is not checked, should it be?? Regards John..

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SuSE 9.1 again
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 22 Aug '04

22 Aug '04

Hi All. After the SuSE failed to boot after a couple of install attempts I tried the Knoppix live C/D. It did not boot either and showed a page of I/O errors then locked on the Knoppix splash screen. I reinstalled SuSE again making sure that the Linux partions were formatted (yes) This time the programme did run with one error on screen. Resolution x and y not entered fonts may be affected. What do I need to do to solve that? Also the modem is not configured correctly. Stupid mode is not checked, should it be?? Regards John..

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help at school
by Terry Cole 21 Aug '04

21 Aug '04

I have at school an existing web server/Intranet (RedHat 9). This controls access to the net using Squid and Dans Guardian. I have had a Uni student as part of her final paper set up a new server using Suse 9 has a replacement. She has now completed her degree and moved on to full time employment out of town. The new server also hosts one of our domains. I would like help on configuring Squid, etc and swapping over the servers with minimal down time. Can someone on the group help me with this process? It would mean someone from Rotorua or someone who is prepared to travel across to us. We will pay you for your time, etc. Please contact me off this list, if you can help. Thanks Terry Cole Rotorua, New Zealand mailto:terry(a)cole.gen.nz http://www.cole.gen.nz http://www.websnz.com

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Re: [wlug] Suse CD install
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 20 Aug '04

20 Aug '04

Hi Group, I did get a SuSE 9.1 and tried to install onto Dell cpx 500 mhz laptop with ati rage video card. The install went pretty good except no 3D, I was not allowed to change the screen resolution, eth0 and modem were not configured. Set up ran right up to intial logon then blank blue screened at the end of the linux startup routine I wonder if I am obliged to get an online update before I get Linux up?? If any one can help (in lay terms) please go right ahead. Regards John..

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all-java database gift from IBM
by s swami 20 Aug '04

20 Aug '04

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/dm-0408anders…

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RE: [wlug] LINUX Servers in the SMB Workspace.
by Gund Wehsling 20 Aug '04

20 Aug '04

Hi I will try to clarify what I asked yesterday and then we can start a chair fight. I am looking at starting a discussion / dialogue / knowledge transfer between all interested with the view to testing and building a single working solution that can be installed / sold to small to medium businesses. We (my colleagues and I) would like to build this on SuSE Server 9. At this moment, we think we have a viable product if we can all agree on what services this server will provide and how. Then, strip away the unnecessary packages and rpms till there is a 'standard' build that can easily be supported / installed. I asked this becasue I wanted to get away from a discussions about desktop applications and processes and preferences and start focussing on an actual server product that can be sold or installed with the associated services. I guess. Anyhow, I hope this is not too vauge, nothing is actually written down yet, so we are starting fresh and anybody interested can join in or we can discuss it here if this forum will support that. Thanks Gund -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Lawson [mailto:daniel(a)meta.net.nz] Sent: Thu 19/08/2004 15:52 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: Re: [wlug] LINUX Servers in the SMB Workspace. Gund, Could you clarify what it is you are asking us to raise our hands for? I'm guessing you're asking for victi^Wvolunteers to have SuSE + SMB etc installed - is that right? Daniel > A quick raise of hands - who is interested? I can take this outside of the list if it is beyond the scope of what is being done here. Or we can start it here as if successful, there will be a demand of Linux engineers as a result so I think what we want to do will have common interest. > > Either way. At this moment, I am not interested in what is being done on the desktop for what is required here, I am looking at a basic achievable goal to start, with the possibility of desktop work later. > > We are looking at SuSE Open Server and will piggy back Novell campains and support as we go along. > > So - hands up or contact me off list. > > _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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RE: [wlug] Suse CD install
by Gund Wehsling 19 Aug '04

19 Aug '04

Hi Had a Dell. There is a Yahoo group that specializes in Linux on Dells, search there, can't remember what exactly the URL is. They have the answers as I had the same problem. Cheers Gund -----Original Message----- From: jaytee(a)clear.net.nz [mailto:jaytee(a)clear.net.nz] Sent: Thu 19/08/2004 20:34 To: jaytee(a)clear.net.nz; Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: Re: [wlug] Suse CD install Hi Group, I did get a SuSE 9.1 and tried to install onto Dell cpx 500 mhz laptop with ati rage video card. The install went pretty good except no 3D, I was not allowed to change the screen resolution, eth0 and modem were not configured. Set up ran right up to intial logon then blank blue screened at the end of the linux startup routine I wonder if I am obliged to get an online update before I get Linux up?? If any one can help (in lay terms) please go right ahead. Regards John.. _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Sound mixing
by Jared Wigmore 19 Aug '04

19 Aug '04

I have sound already (with the sb driver), and I'm running ESounD. The problem is, programs that haven't been configured to work with esd can't make sound at all while it's running. What would be the best solution? ===== -- JaredWigmore -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GCM/CS/S d? s+++:-- a? C++++ UL++ P--- L++ E>+++ W++ N>+ o? K- w--- O? M-- V-- PS-- Y-- PGP- t+++ 5? X R* tv b++ DI D G e- h! !r z- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ http://www.wlug.org.nz/JaredWigmore http://AnswersInGenisis.org/ http://www.againsttcpa.com/ ---------------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com

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LINUX Servers in the SMB Workspace.
by Gund Wehsling 19 Aug '04

19 Aug '04

Hi After some Linux / Novell training in Auckland a few weeks back, some of my coleagues and I have decided to get extremely serious about deploying Linux into the common market place. We are mostly NetWare engineers with a keen interest in what Novell is doing now with SuSE and it's next operating system release and we would like to take this from the shed into the workplace. A quick raise of hands - who is interested? I can take this outside of the list if it is beyond the scope of what is being done here. Or we can start it here as if successful, there will be a demand of Linux engineers as a result so I think what we want to do will have common interest. Either way. At this moment, I am not interested in what is being done on the desktop for what is required here, I am looking at a basic achievable goal to start, with the possibility of desktop work later. We are looking at SuSE Open Server and will piggy back Novell campains and support as we go along. So - hands up or contact me off list. Rgds Gund

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PLEASE READ: Committee minutes & nominations for 2004-2005 election
by Craig Box 19 Aug '04

19 Aug '04

Hi everyone, The minutes of last nights committee meeting are now available at http://www.wlug.org.nz/CommitteeMeetingTopics.2004-08-18. All WLUG members are now invited to make nominations for the WLUG committee for 2005. The charter specifies the committee as consisting of a President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer, and five general committee members. We are accepting nominations via the web page http://www.wlug.org.nz/WlugElections. The conditions of nomination are: * You shouldn't nominate yourself. (If you want to stand, post a note on the bottom of the page asking for someone to nominate you.) * You can only nominate or second someone if you are currently a 2003-2004 paid up member. * You can only vote at the upcoming AGM if you were a 2003-2004 paid up member, and have signed a new membership form for 2004-2005 (remember, you have 90 days to pay.) Voting at the AGM will be using the Single Transferrable Vote system that the district health boards/councils are using, care of the open source implementation at http://stv.sourceforge.net/. If you have any queries, please post to the bottom of the page and we will attempt to clear them up quickly. Regards, Craig

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Upcoming meeting this Monday (23rd)
by John R. McPherson 18 Aug '04

18 Aug '04

Hi everyone, since out Meeting Reminder Bot doesn't seem to be working properly yet, this is just a reminder of our monthly meeting coming up on Monday. (Remember that meetings are on the 4th Monday of the month, not the last Monday). This month's meeting will be a presentation by Drew Broadley on XBox mods/Running Linux on an XBox, and it will be held at Crawshaw School, starting at our winter start time of 7pm. Links: http://www.wlug.org.nz/MeetingTopics.2004-08-23 http://www.wlug.org.nz/DrewBroadley http://www.wlug.org.nz/CrawshawSchool (has a map) John.

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RE: [wlug] Suitable laptop for Linux?
by Gund Wehsling 18 Aug '04

18 Aug '04

Have A10, ditto. Would rather have my old Dell back. However, in defence of A10, SuSE 9.1 did pick up every piece of hardware, including modem. However, no serial ports or PS/2 is a problem for me and what I do during the day. Speakers are horrid. DVD is only 2x writer (45mins for 4.5GB disc) 16x CDR. It also came bundled with WinXP Pro. I did get this one for free though, but I sometimes wonder. Like Denise, I had to buy a mouse, USB to Serial converter, external speakers etc.... If it covers your bases then buy it. It does not work for me though. -----Original Message----- From: Denise Bates [mailto:dbates(a)iconz.co.nz] Sent: Wed 18/08/2004 18:14 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: Re: [wlug] Suitable laptop for Linux? On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:50, Gavin Denby wrote: > I saw in a flyer from warehouse stationery that they have a Toshiba A10 > with Intel integrated graphics and celeron 2.2 > > Price is about 1500 so in budget. but that includes MS tax. > > Intel tend to be good at linux support nowadays > > worth a look if you dont have one yet I bought one a couple of months ago and have installed Mandrake 10.0 on it. Most things were detected during installation and worked well. Sound, Video, and CD-writer needed no fiddling to speak of. The speakers are pathetic, and the touch-pad is quite useless! As useful as an on-board mouse can be on occasions, I replaced it with an external USB wheelmouse immediately (it has no PS2 port). The internal 56k modem didn't work (I didn't really expect it to). I selected this model because it had a PCMCIA slot, so I could fit a proper modem, rather than wrestle with a winmodem. As much as I would have preferred to buy a Windoze-free laptop, the only other readily-available candidate (from DSE) didn't have PCMCIA, and at the time, the prices were comparable. I removed the internal modem (an easy job) just in case it caused problems. The Toshiba A10 does have a couple of shortcomings. It has no serial or parallel ports, and it doesn't have a floppy drive either. I managed to get a parallel printer to work with a USB-to-serial/parallel adapter from DSE, but it was something of a battle. Last week, I bought a Epson CX3100 multifunction thingee, and it works perfectly with minimal fiddling: Printer, Scanner, and Copier! Another minor irritation is that the PCMCIA slot seems to have almost no "grip" to the card which is inserted. Even a small tug, applied to disconnect the modem cable, pulls out the card itself. No floppy, ports, useable mouse-substitute, or working modem! When you buy all the "extras" that should be standard it isn't much of a bargain. -- regards, ********************************************* Dr Denise J. Bates, PhD School of Geography & Environmental Science University of Auckland Private Bag 92019, Auckland New Zealand E-mail: d.bates(a)auckland.ac.nz Telephone 09-3737599 ext 86592 Home: 09-2336433 email: dbates(a)iconz.co.nz ********************************************* _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Suitable laptop for Linux?
by Jonathan Purvis 18 Aug '04

18 Aug '04

My iMac has finally died (instead of booting when switched on, it makes a high-pitched noise and a burning smell), so i'm going to have to buy a new computer. I'm thinking of purchasing a laptop. I'd like one that works with Linux, preferably doesn't come with a bundled version of Microsoft Windows and is under $2000. Other than the ECS A531 (http://www.wlug.org.nz/A531Laptop) are there others that meet my criteria? Is the A531 a good laptop to buy? All i'll be doing is writing programs, web browsing, emulating calculators and playing DVDs (so video is useful too). CPU speed isn't really a factor, anyone who knows me will tell you that i seem to stay away from fast computers. ;) Thanks, Jon

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Cyrus21 Help...
by Lindsay Druett 11 Aug '04

11 Aug '04

I have a Cyrus21 imap/pop3 server which is getting emails alright, you can create subfolders and shift email around, but you put emails into sent items... With Outlook Express, which is what *the customer* is using, you get this error... Some of the messages in your Outbox Folder could not be copied to your Sent Items Folder. Your message could not be uploaded to the IMAP server. The server refused to accept it. Subject 'Fw: Cron <amavis-stats(a)celaeno> [ -x /usr/sbin/amavis-stats ] && /usr/sbin/amavis-stats /var/log/mail.info', Account: 'Lindsay Druett', Server: 'mail.gateway-net.com', Protocol: IMAP, Server Response: 'Permission denied', Port: 143, Secure(SSL): No, Error Number: 0x800CCCD2 With Mozilla, whihc is what *I* use, you get a similar error. Any ideas ? BTW - It is using sieve, and there is LDAP involved... -- Lindsay Druett lindsay(a)wired.net.nz http://www.wired.net.nz Everyone in New Zealand should have a choice of which phone company and/or high speed broadband Internet Service Provider they use. http://www.LLU.wired.net.nz

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ANNOUNCEMENT: Annual General Meeting, 13 Sep
by Craig Box 09 Aug '04

09 Aug '04

In accordance with Rule 6 of the charter, I would like to formally announce that the Waikato Linux Users Group (Incorporated) will be holding its Annual General Meeting on Monday, 13 September, 2004, at 7pm, at the Crawshaw School Hall (the same location as the Installfest.) As our financial year ends on 31 August, please note that membership "ends" on this date and 2005 membership dues will be collected starting at the AGM. Voting rights at the AGM are granted to "those people who were paid members in the previous financial year and who have signed a membership form for the next financial year". Regards, Craig

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Next Metting: XBOX & Linux ...
by Drew Broadley 05 Aug '04

05 Aug '04

So, I just want to find out to whom is going to come what you would like to find out in addition to the following: How to Mod an XBOX: Brief. (Software and Hardware) Xbox and Linux Web/File/Media Server Distros Opensource Software and the XBOX Xbox Media Center + more Feel free to suggest any more then the following if you wish for myself to give a brief but informative rundown Cheers, Drew Broadley

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connection to a router
by John 05 Aug '04

05 Aug '04

A bit of advice please. I have an IHUG wireless connection which I can get working fine when I plug the connection straight into my Ethernet card and use an ADSL connection. However, I have a netgear router which I am using between my computers and the net. When I try and set up a network connection with this, I am choosing "Ethernet connection" - it recognises the card but when I try and activate it says 3c501 device does not seem to be present. How do I go about setting my computer up to speak to my router? Cheers John

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Fedora CDs Request
by Mark Grimshaw 31 Jul '04

31 Jul '04

Hi all, Is anyone able to supply Fedora CDs? Ideally at the university so I can pick them up tomorrow. If so, give me a room number, time to be there and no. CDs to replace. Thanks. Mark Grimshaw.

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GRUB woes
by Mark Grimshaw 31 Jul '04

31 Jul '04

Hi all, I recently upgraded hardware (m'board, CPU, video, RAM etc.) on the system that I've been using dual/boot/GRUB (W2K and, recently RH9) for the last 2 years. Knowing I would have to reinstall the OSs, I installed W2K first then RH9. Unfortunately, I seem to have misplaced GRUB and the system simply goes straight to the W2K boot up. With RH9 installations, I've never been able to make a floppy at the end of the install process (seems to be either a RH9 'feature' or the kernel is too large for the floppy) but have always made the boot floppy from within linux. So, I'm unable to boot linux from this imaginary floppy. My previous RH9 boot floppy clearly has the wrong kernel for the new hardware and I can't load that (both boot floppies I have). I've lost count of the number of times I've reinstalled RH9 in the last few days or chosen the upgrade option from the CD each time trying some different combination of boot loader (including trying to go back to LILO). I've even tried sticking GRUB and LILO on the MBR rather than the boot partition. I have Tom's rtboot and a GRUB floppy both of which run. From these, including the RH9/boot CD/linux rescue option, I've tried grub-install options and grub commandline (root (hd1,0); setup (hd1)) options - each time I get an installed successfully message but each boot, up comes Windows. I have two HDs: W2K (inc. linux swap) on hda LINUX: /dev/hdb3 / /dev/hdb1 /boot I know most HOWTOs state that the linux boot should be on the same hard drive as the windows OS but these are the partitions I've been successfully dual-booting from with GRUB for the past 2 years. I have no more hair left to tear out - please help. Mark.

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This install howto is Literally from hell
by Gavin Denby 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

Just in case you have a had a day as stress filled as mine and need a chuckle, and assuming you can get your hands on a mac http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml After all it does take a special kind of geek to get linux running on a dead badger. Have a surreal day

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RE: [wlug] This install howto is Literally from hell
by Lindsay Druett 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

Well, this is definitely food for discussion with audiophiles around the place, especially musso's... But firstly cooling is not an issue anymore where some ATX P4 cases come provisioned for up to six fans, maybe more, and fans are $ 10.00 each from PB Tech. For the see through cases with neon lights, LEDs, etc, etc, etc, you now have the glow... But the reality, and this appeals to me, is that the sound output is a lot mellower, even harmonics, and a better quality sound all round, especially at the lower end of the sound spectrum. I found eight models of A-Open motherboards with the "TubeSound" feature. It also depends what you are hooking into. If it was my Yamaha amp for home theatre, then nah - I want Dolby Digital/DTS input for the 5.1 (6 Channel) input. But for the NAD setup with two channel listening, then that would be just awesome... Just my some thoughts.... Good find Bruce... > -----Original Message----- > From: zcat [mailto:zcat(a)wired.net.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 29 July 2004 23:41 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] This install howto is Literally from hell > > > I've never really understood what's remotely funny about that page. > > OTOH, this > (http://english.aopen.com.tw/products/mb/ax4b-533tube.htm) is > funny. And apparently real. > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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Re: [wlug] The Burning Desktop issue.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 26 Jul '04

26 Jul '04

PHEW! Did I ask a question? So I should not ask about different distibutions I guess. Thanks for the opinions all, I will try to sort out the information. Regards John.. ----- Original Message Follows ----- > The simple answer is Gavin, you know nothing about > computers and you are stuck in front of the computer and > told to view a web page, does the desktop lend itself to > making it shit easy to launch a browser? > > Is the desktop intuitive? if it needs to much thought to > figure it out, its not a good desktop. > > Will it adapt? and is it simple to adapt? > > Will it support non visual forms of I/O? > > If it needs a super computer to execute then it is not a > good desktop, so is it scale-able? > > KISS! > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

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The Burning Desktop issue.
by Gavin Denby 26 Jul '04

26 Jul '04

As I come to the end of my Live CD evaluations, (Yours left today Oliver, sorry it took so long) I have found myself asking a really interesting question of what makes a good desktop. Naturally the best answer is "one that does what the user wants it to do." the problem is what does the average desktop user want to do ? In a sort of applied way, I used to sell cellphones, and people would come in and ask for a good deal on a cellphone, and the traditional sales role was here is model on special for ... model B if you more features. I alway started with the question, what are you wanting to do with it who will be using it, and how many calls will it receive and make. then I cold tailor the best package for the user, I also sold the most car and truck phones (installed) of any rep, and had a strong business clientelle. They needed tools, not cheep phones. Later I would get people asking my advice on buying a laptop, my question was the same, what do you want to do with it, where do you plan to use it, is battery life or speed and graphics your goal. PC's are flexible tools, My father in law's pc is used for genealogy, writes document files, e-mail and Internet and plays solitaire. My wifes sister, surfs the net and uses chat software, while her son plays games and only games. My wife does spreadsheets, makes sewing graphics for her janome, so she users her scanner, downloads images/video her digital camera and firewire camcorder and makes movies with this, she also also creates musical soundtracks with live instruments, writes music scores and of course also uses it for e-mail and web surfing. of course it all need printing. I hack software (with permission of course) develop electronic circuits, generate code for Microcontrollers, write manuals, test software , re-write manuals keep track of work flow, run a bug track system, manage servers, mange remote systems by short life dial up connections. Update my ipaq and handle huge amounts of e-mail including tech support. A lot of printing, a little video and very really some scanning. Oh and I move around a lot , so I am wireless. My son plays games ...... oh yeah, he surfs the net to get patches for his games too ......... Nah thats it he plays Games. So what is an average user ??? ..... Maybe someone who can use and average desktop. Circular logic ??? Maybe thats why there is so much of a problem with deciding on a desktop distro. so here is my take based on a newbie with a first PC. E-Mail with an easy to set up pop client Web Browser with Flash, shockwave and Java either installed, or easy to do so. Document writer that can output a word document (possibly powerpoint if you are a student... they always ask for this) IM Client AOL and MSN IRC software P2P software, (I hate it ...but lets be real) Easy to setup dial up to an isp or Basic adsl options. (get a router ... Grrrrr ) Printer support Basic games (solitaire) Digital Camera support Play Music CD's Play MP3's An easy to use volume control. The ability to find and install software that suits their interests .. E.G genealogy software, and preferably with a description of what the software will do. Access to help and/or support forums that are easy to use. A Simple guide to getting started. An Instruction Manual .. so they can loose it before anyone reads it. Let me know if I missed anything obvious that would be a must have. but based on this, any of the distros commented on here would do this, and do it well. so at the end of the day it comes down to the user experience, and the general feel of the interface. Naturally Windows users will look for familiarity in the interface, Mac users aren't so fussy but have their own likes and dislikes. Linux users will just modify it to what they want. Boot time matters a little, as most users shut the machine down, and run it up when they want to use it, but the responsiveness of the desktop probably matters more, it should have a nice snappy feel. The biggest issue will be what happens when our newbie plugs his/her digital camera in, will it work? is it hard to use. Trust me .. command line will really cause an issue here. Then it will be adding some new software. I've already said what I plan to test so far, And I have added cobind to the mix as it seemed to be a suitable candidate for a fedora desktop. But its hard to come up with really objective test methodologies as I would have to know what an average user is ... and here we go again .... -- "Engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance." Dr A R Dykes.

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RE: [wlug] Suse Live CD
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 26 Jul '04

26 Jul '04

I had a look at the review on this distro, From what I read, it seems ideal for a newbie.The only negative comments I found was that dvd movie play can be a real hassle to set up.. Boot time is a little longer than some other distros but that is not really so important is it? If anyone has got this distro installed I would like to see some opinion/critique, also if you are a new user or a seasoned Linuxer. Regards John.. > > Hey Gund, > > I loaded SuSE onto my desktop here at Uni. > What an awesome distro... > Very easy to load up. Thanks again. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gund Wehsling > > [mailto:Gund.Wehsling(a)computerland.co.nz] Sent: > > Thursday, 22 July 2004 13:09 To: Waikato Linux Users > > Group Subject: RE: [wlug] Suse Live CD > > > > > > Hi > > > > I am in Collingwood street and have good copies of both > > the live 9.1 and > > personal 9.1 install. > > > > I am quite busy during the day, but will make copies on > > a swap for a blank basis. Mail me off list for contact > > details and when and where. > > Rgds > > > > > > > > Gund > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wayne Rooney [mailto:wrooney(a)ihug.co.nz] > > Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 1:27 a.m. > > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > > Subject: Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD > > > > > > >finally got the iso, but its bad > > > > >redownoading but at least tomorrow before its here , so > > if anyone else > > has it ...... > > > > A tip for the future. If you've got a bad iso, find an > > rsync mirror and > > use > > rsync to repair it. Much quicker that re-downloading an > > entire iso. > > Wayne > > > > _______________________________________________ > > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Unsubscribe: > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > _______________________________________________ > > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Unsubscribe: > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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SuSE and Novell
by Gund Wehsling 26 Jul '04

26 Jul '04

Hi There have been some comments about SuSE in the last day or two and here is what I can tell you from a Novell point of view and I hope this will shed some light. Most of this is from reading between the lines. I am no LINUX pro either, I am a NetWare specialist (although novell had better ideas than to employ me), though I am following Novell through this "very difficult period" ;-) SuSE 9.1 personal is designed for home users who want to send and recieve mail, use thier printers, scanners, see the internet and write the odd spreadsheet and letter. That is why it is so simple and installs easily off one disc with no fuss. It is slow to start compared to other distros, but you will notice the kernel is about 1.8MB (on my machine) and for this reason it also auto detects nicely and the 'home' components work well for most machines. If you wanted to be a power user or compile your own kernel, perhaps 9.1 Pro is for you. I see that Novell now offers this as a free FTP install from thier site, something SuSE never did. If you want a server, then Novell recommends you use SuSE server 8.0, another free download, although limited time (90 day). I have been told it will cost about $650 per server (not per processor) to license. It is really, really easy to install and setup and really easy to integrate into other products. Example would be the demo I went to installed Standard edition, then eDirectory, then migrated users from Win/NetWare, setup Samba, in less than two hours, from blank hardware, the users where able to sign in and get to thier home directories. Obviously the copying of thier data will take longer. eDirectory is free too! I would like to step out and make an observation here that may cause the throwing of some chairs, but please bear with me. I would like to stress the importance of SuSE, perhaps not as the next big technological be all for everybody, but as the bleeding edge of a business model so many open source people have hoped for for a long time now. Novell is a large commercial concern and they are possible putting more than everything into the development and distribution of this OS than has been done before. Perhaps it is not the best distro there for you, but they are working in a commercial field now, so demographics and averages play a big part here. It is not likely to be the most powerful desktop in the market and it may have proprietry or non-compatible elements to what you are used to, but that is what change is about. Something new is good, even if it is something challenging or different. Please understand that Novell has large overheads (apart fom marketing open source software), so they cannot exist by giving away free software that meets all the needs and requirements of everybody and open source licensing prevents them from completely modifying everything. So, to generate income, they have produced products like NLS and ported most of thier existing application to LINUX. This creates not only viable and sustainable business migration paths, but also show big business that it is possible to do everything they need for less, better, with a well established and reliable software/server vendor. There is a state of mind in big business that free software fails and is dificult to support. Novell is working really hard to disspell this. If you are in the integrator market, you will see that Novell is handing out heaps of free training and publicity to push this. Try it thoroughly before you knock it, if it is not for you, then try something else. This is where I will be though. Throw your chairs. I have a copy of SuSE 8.0 limited time server if you are interested in showing your customer something new. I can make copies, over the weekends only though. Have fun and go easy when you flame me, I am new here. gund

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WLUG Meeting is tonight
by Meeting Reminder bot 25 Jul '04

25 Jul '04

The WLUG meeting is this evening ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Introduction to Linux and Network Security. A fairly high-level discussion of various aspects of security, looking at topics such as: * Firewalls * Network Address Translation ([NAT]) * De-militirized zones ([DMZ]s) * Virtual Private Networks ([VPN]s) and [IPSec] * Secure Sockets Layer ([SSL]) Location: CrawshawSchool Time: 7pm Doors will be open from ten to seven or so, presentation will start shortly after 7.

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Peer to peer?
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 25 Jul '04

25 Jul '04

I was hoping to get a file sharing program then Try Gnutella for some mpeg/ogg files. What application should I use for this and can I "yum install <nameofapp>" and join the file share deal? Regards John

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Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD let me down, so I seek a better desktop.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 25 Jul '04

25 Jul '04

Thank you for explaining kvm. My interest is mainly in the hard drive install, I have a live c/d version of Knoppix. Regards John.. > KVM is Keyboard Video Mouse switching > > It allows me to have 2 PC's working on the same monitor > and keyboard, they worked fine, but it missed the mouse. > I have seen that before too. > > Also I only looked at the live CD whie the other report > was a 9.1 hard drive install, a whole different CD. > > I will be installing it later. _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD let me down, so I seek a better desktop.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 25 Jul '04

25 Jul '04

I look forward to the results being posted with much interest ----- Original Message Follows ----- > I'm playing with a number of distros as I want to find an > ideal little distro that is as easy as pie for a newbie. This is what I am looking for also.. > I tried the live CD, and ... how do i say it nicely. .... > not a pretty experience, 2 machines wouldn't even boot to > X, and the third did but no mouse, (I think the KVM > switch might have upset something,) I wonder why in the space of a posting the o/s goes from awesome (lindsay) to the result that you found. I have no idea what the "kvm" switch is or does. Regards John.. > >>I loaded SuSE onto my desktop here at Uni. > >>What an awesome distro... > >>Very easy to load up. Thanks again. > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 24 Jul '04

24 Jul '04

Thanks Aristotle, I did read that page prior to writing and note the comments. I was however hoping they were a little out of date and/or some more people had become interested in ver 9.1 as the thread implied. Regards John > See http://www.wlug.org.nz/Suse which is mostly my doing. > > Regards, > -- > Aristotle > "If you can't laugh at yourself, you don't take life > seriously enough." > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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RE: [wlug] Suse Live CD
by Lindsay Druett 23 Jul '04

23 Jul '04

Hey Gund, I loaded SuSE onto my desktop here at Uni. What an awesome distro... Very easy to load up. Thanks again. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gund Wehsling [mailto:Gund.Wehsling(a)computerland.co.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 13:09 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: RE: [wlug] Suse Live CD > > > Hi > > I am in Collingwood street and have good copies of both the > live 9.1 and > personal 9.1 install. > > I am quite busy during the day, but will make copies on a swap for a > blank basis. Mail me off list for contact details and when and where. > > Rgds > > > > Gund > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne Rooney [mailto:wrooney(a)ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 1:27 a.m. > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD > > > >finally got the iso, but its bad > > >redownoading but at least tomorrow before its here , so if > anyone else > has it ...... > > A tip for the future. If you've got a bad iso, find an rsync > mirror and > use > rsync to repair it. Much quicker that re-downloading an entire iso. > > Wayne > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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WLUG Meeting is on monday
by Meeting Reminder bot 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

The WLUG meeting is on monday ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Introduction to Linux and Network Security. A fairly high-level discussion of various aspects of security, looking at topics such as: * Firewalls * Network Address Translation ([NAT]) * De-militirized zones ([DMZ]s) * Virtual Private Networks ([VPN]s) and [IPSec] * Secure Sockets Layer ([SSL]) Location: CrawshawSchool Time: 7pm Doors will be open from ten to seven or so, presentation will start shortly after 7.

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RE: [wlug] Re: @jetstreamgames.co.nz
by Chris Day 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

>>I got model XH7916 with software version Rel9v3. Is it worth it to upgrade to >>a later version? Hi Felix. The short answer is yes. As a similar question has been raised in the NZADSL Mailing list, and as the question is more ADSL related than Linux, I'll post the specific advantages there for all to see. Regards, Chris...

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RE: [wlug] Re: @jetstreamgames.co.nz
by Ross Hamblin 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

But don't forget to write down your current settings first :) Ross Hamblin DSE (NZ) Ltd. > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Day > Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 14:47 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: RE: [wlug] Re: @jetstreamgames.co.nz > > > The latest firmware (Rel9v4 & Rel9v5) defaults DSE ADSL > Routers (XH79156, XH1149 & XH1169) to log on to > Jetstreamgames by default. If you are using one of these > firmware versions, simply choose the 'restore factory > settings' option. > Regards, Chis Day - DSE(NZ)Ltd. > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

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RE: [wlug] Re: @jetstreamgames.co.nz
by Chris Day 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

The latest firmware (Rel9v4 & Rel9v5) defaults DSE ADSL Routers (XH79156, XH1149 & XH1169) to log on to Jetstreamgames by default. If you are using one of these firmware versions, simply choose the 'restore factory settings' option. Regards, Chis Day - DSE(NZ)Ltd.

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RE: [wlug] Suse Live CD
by Gund Wehsling 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

Hi I am in Collingwood street and have good copies of both the live 9.1 and personal 9.1 install. I am quite busy during the day, but will make copies on a swap for a blank basis. Mail me off list for contact details and when and where. Rgds Gund -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Rooney [mailto:wrooney(a)ihug.co.nz] Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 1:27 a.m. To: Waikato Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD >finally got the iso, but its bad >redownoading but at least tomorrow before its here , so if anyone else has it ...... A tip for the future. If you've got a bad iso, find an rsync mirror and use rsync to repair it. Much quicker that re-downloading an entire iso. Wayne _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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SCO flops in DaimlerChrysler Unix lawsuit
by Gavin Denby 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

Breaking news. In a hearing Wednesday, Judge Rae Lee Chabot of Oakland County Circuit Court in Michigan granted most of DaimlerChrysler's motion to dismiss the case, SCO and DaimlerChrysler representatives said. The loss doesn't set a precedent, but it does make it harder for SCO to pursue its overall case, said Mark Radcliffe <http://dw.com.com/redir?destUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gcwf.com%2Fgcc%2FGrayCary-…>, an intellectual-property attorney at Gray Cary. "The more that SCO is unsuccessful in its claims, the more it decreases their ability to go out and use the threat of litigation to obtain settlements," he said. "It diminishes their credibility." Full story at: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5278572.html But I still ask .. "What credibility did SCO ever have in these cases? I guess the dominoes will start to fall now, so we will all be able to get back to what we do well...... Oh thats right, we never really stopped anyway did we. -- "Engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance." Dr A R Dykes - 2003

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Network Problem (SuSE 9.1)
by Felix Hohener 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

I have just installed SuSE for the first time, including the firewall. The computer is connected to a small home network with 3 other Windows machines. I am trying to access the Windows machines, however, I get the error message "unable to find any workgroups". I can ping the machines and print via the the Windows machine. If I turn the firewall off, I can browse the network. If I turn the firewall on again after doing the browse, I am still able to access the Windows machines on the network. What do I need to change, so it sees the network without having to go through turning off/on the firewall each time I boot up? Thanks --- Felix

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Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD
by Wayne Rooney 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

>finally got the iso, but its bad >redownoading but at least tomorrow before its here , so if anyone else has it ...... A tip for the future. If you've got a bad iso, find an rsync mirror and use rsync to repair it. Much quicker that re-downloading an entire iso. Wayne

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Committee meeting minutes
by Craig Box 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

Hi everyone, Another month, another committee meeting; to check we're all worthy of re-election in the upcoming (September) AGM, check out the minutes at http://www.wlug.org.nz/CommitteeMeetingTopics.2004-07-21. Also, I've wikied Gavin's summary of the DSE computer expo at http://www.wlug.org.nz/DickSmithElectronicsComputerExpo. Regards, Secretary Reminder Bot

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DSE powerhouse - Read the Book, Saw the Movie, Got the T-Shirt
by Gavin Denby 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

May I offer my hearty congratulations to all those who both helped out and those who popped in and said hi, hundreds of Open Office CD's as well as Knoppix /morphix CD's were given away, Many people had a first look at open source, and Hundreds of WLUG brochures were taken by interested people. DSE staff tell me they had a really good weekend with PC sales, and the response from staff was that it went well and they felt positive about doing something like it again. (They Had some good specials so I dont think we get the credit for this) Sunday saw Bruce bring in the OS Revolution video which was played on a PC in store, It got a lot of interest, and helped us move CD's and flyers. Also Bruce and family set up some addictive games and got the kids playing, as a result there will be a lot of new frozen bubble players wanting to boot up linux for another game. I found people very responsive, and pleased to know that there was some choice in NZ, they were also very keen to realize that Kiwi's were involved in Linux and Open Source projects, and that we had a group here in the Waikato. It was a very pleasant way to spend a day. A lot of people also were very interested in the more technical aspects of linux, and what it could do, and some with older PC's were pleased to learn of projects such as Feather and other minimal Linux's for their boxes. We also discussed hardware, and what would work best in a linux/windows PC. Staff asked us to assist with questions, and seemed happy to have our experience and independence there for customers to bounce ideas off. In short, if there was a PC question on Linux, we probably heard it. Great work team. We showed the best face to the community, and came across well. You earned your shirts, wear them with pride. Thanks also to Chris and Ross from DSE for allowing us to be involved, we hope that DSE and their Customers got as much from the weekend as we did. Also well done Daniel and the rest of the committee for organizing all this and making is flow for those of us who did a shift. I'm going to bed now with a new respect for those in retail who are on their feet all day, and spend all day trying to help people with their problems. Again well done to all who gave up time to help out. Look out for new sign ups to the mail list.

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