- wlug - list.wlug.org.nz

Re: [wlug] World Domination and other matters.
by Jon Tocker 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

On 8 Mar 01, at 12:02, Andreas wrote: > I don't see the assambly and installation as something I could not be > bothered to do...it gets boring after a while, that is true but I'd be in > for that. However, how would you deal with warranties on hardware? Heh, it's just that I've built too many computers and repaired too many - I *was* a programmer before my job changed. Software, programming and OS work are more to my taste. Hardware warranties - hmmm, repairing equipment for free because it didn't survive burn-in - what *joy*! That's why I told someone who suggested I make my own range of computers that I wasn't interested. > Further I agree to a rather small range of hardware combinations as you > want attractive specs but also compatibility. Essentially this means you > have three or four sets of hardware and install each once and create an > image. This minimises the time for installations. That was what I thought myself. Configure the OS for the systems and mass produce it. Doing all the builds from the ground up would be both time consuming and open to error should a step be forgotten. Preplanning the software would be important - like the comment made at the meeting regarding firewalls and sewing them up too tight to allow the user to install ICQ - preinstall ICQ, factor it into the firewalling and it's there if the user wants it. If they don't, they don't have to use it. Yah, OK, so there's stuff on there they won't need, taking up space - like that's going to be a problem considering 20Gb is about the smallest HDD you can get these days :) Regards Jon Tocker ***There is no spoon*** ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] Linux (or anything) vs Windows on the preinstalled PC
by Jon Tocker 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

On 8 Mar 01, at 14:10, Bruce Kingsbury wrote: > From the network side Linux can be made _very_ secure, but the default > for most distributions is slightly less secure than a default 'doze > install, and it's only luck and obscurity that has saved us so far, imho.. Tell me about it - Shields Up website informed me I had more open ports than Venice. > The problem is that the big distro makers have a default install where > everything is enabled, including one or two well-known root-exploitable > services. In this enviromnent viruses and worms are inevitable but we can > make -our- boxes secure, and be sure that -we- never get them. Right - all the more reason for modifying whatever distro we use when we configure the OS and apps for any machine we set up. Regards Jon Tocker ***There is no spoon*** ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] Linux (or anything) vs Windows on the preinstalled PC
by Jon Tocker 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

On 7 Mar 01, at 21:48, Craig Box wrote: > Something you forget in the word-of-mouth sale approach to PCs: > > 1. "Hey, I got this cool new computer with Linux pre installed!" > 2. "Sweet. Hey, heres this disk with a game/cool program/document on it" > 1. "Erm.. I can't load it or use it sorry" 2. "That sucks dude. Get > Windows, everyone I know uses Windows (perhaps hands over warez Windows > CD)" Doze is not worth pirating. > Vicious cycle. Until Linux can interact 100% with Windows, how are you > going to sell it as a desktop OS? By pointing out that the viruses that infect Windows also won't run on Linux - especially VBS-based email and Word viruses. In order to make Linux 100% interactive with Windows, you'd have to make Linux as brain damaged as Windows. WinE has made some good advances in getting some Windows-based software running. Documents and graphics files are generally no problem. Providing our Linux box has Arial and Times New Roman fonts (they have extended characters in them that do not display if viewed using some Type A fonts - makes the conversion of some Word docs to Star Office problematic) most Word docs can be converted into Star Office or Applixware Office. Graphic files - jpg, gif etc - can be read without problems. Even animated gifs can be read. There are plenty of Linux games out there, including a lot that are popular on Windows that have been ported across or a similar game has been written from scratch. As to accessing the disk - my standard for Linux installs is to add another mount point: /mnt/msfloppy - same as /mnt/floppy but the type is VFAT. This allows a disk formatted on a doze box to be read and any *legitimate* stuff copied onto the linux box. Most the "cool programs" in the public domain that don't have a Linux equivalent are pure fluff (such as exe files that give a short video clip of someone stripping/having sex etc). Those that aren't in the public domain aren't allowed to be copied - what's the problem? You can get mpegs with people stripping if you're into that sort of thing - and they run fine on Linux. (oops ;P) The great joy about Linux is that the stuff written for it is largely free to be distributed, tested and modified (with a few exceptions) being able to pirate copyrighted software on your Linux box seems to me to defeat the purpose. The idea I have is to enlist more people in the notion of having a great community where you're *allowed* to circulate stuff that people have freely given, not to promote stealing stuff that people have invested moiney in and expect a return from. Hackers and Warez-d00dz both agree that software should be free. The main difference is that hackers say "here's what I've created, take it, distribute it, if it suits you, use it, if you can improve it let me know. This is my gift." A warez-d00d says "here's something I stole from someone else, I don't think they deserve to get a return on their investment." I for one agree with the hacker outlook. Many hackers are paid to create programs for those companies that charge money for their software; what the hacker creates during *free time*, for the love of hacking, is what is given away. But to eat the hacker maybe works for Broderbund or Adobe. I do not begrudge those companies who invest money in their product making a fair return. Let those who wish to charge for their creations do so, let those who wish to give their creations away do so as well. Let's try this scenario: 1. "Hey, I got this cool new computer with Linux pre installed!" 2. "Sweet. Hey, heres this disk with a game/cool program on it" 1. "Erm.. I can't load it or use it sorry" 2. "That sucks dude. Get Windows, everyone I know uses Windows 1. "And look at how many people voted for [insert favourite political scapegoat]! Actually, I've already got a Linux version of that game and I'm not interested in stealing someone's stuff when I've got a whole community out there giving me cool stuff for free. You can spend the rest of your life worrying about whether you'll get busted, if you like, I don't have that worry. The Linux-based software I've looked at so far that is not freely distributable is extremely well priced. Compare Applixware Office - $220 - with M$ Oriface 2000 - $1080. Gee, I wonder which I'd rather buy... Photoshop - certainly worth stealing IMHO, but the GIMP is free, so why bothr? AutoCAD is bloody horrifically priced, the Linux equivalent is free. Regards Jon Tocker ***There is no spoon*** ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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IBM
by Morticia 05 Mar '01

05 Mar '01

Even IBM are getting on the bandwagon... well up front at last maybe http://www.wirednews.com/news/business/0,1367,42156,00.html Cheers Alison ~~World Domination Through World Co-operation~~ ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] A quick question...
by Perry Lorier 03 Mar '01

03 Mar '01

> I think the following are innovative: > > CORBA is reputed to be a better technology than Microsoft's COM and is > free at www.corba.org CORBA is I guess. I wonder how old CORBA is. > I believe text-to-speech is better with the open source community but > this same open sourced technology is available for both Windows and > Linux Hrm, dunno about this, I've watched bruce battle with this and fail miserably :) > Perl\Python scripting is better than anything Microsoft has come up > with. I am not sold on Microsoft's Visual Basic. Now thats a good point, perl predates linux by a pretty good margin, but python obviously doesn't. -- No one can put you down without your full cooperation. ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] A quick question...
by Perry Lorier 03 Mar '01

03 Mar '01

> What about the ext2 filesystem? Keeps defragmentation to a minimum > without the need for defragging. Long file names at the CLI level. > Compare that with VFAT. While this isn't really a 'linuxy' innovation, ReiserFS obviously is. So I guess we can chalk one up for Linux here. > What about Shared Objects better than Windows DLL files? Two > libraries of different versions can be in RAM both at the same time. yeah, except this is something that came from the BSD's. > I might think of some more later. It had me stumped, and if we're gonna laugh at MS for saying that they demand the freedom to innovate, we should at least know ourselves a lot better :) -- Scenery is here, wish you were beautiful. ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] Slackware 7.1
by Greig McGill 27 Feb '01

27 Feb '01

Sweet as Matt - where are you, when are you available, and what do you want in return? My soul is unavailable, due to a prior deal with some large red dude... >:-> Greig. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Brown" <mattbrown(a)wave.co.nz> To: <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [wlug] Slackware 7.1 > I've got Slackware 7.1 > > and a CD Writer so I may be able to help you out, > > drop me a line and we'll see what we can sort out. > > Matt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greig McGill" <greig(a)compel.co.nz> > To: <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:06 PM > Subject: [wlug] Slackware 7.1 > > > > Hi all. > > > > Does anyone out there have a copy of Slackware 7.1 on CD? > > I need to experiment with a few things for a job on a mission critical > > server running Slackware, and I really don't want to screw it up through > > lack of familiarity! :-) > > > > I can pay or provide blanks, or trade this nice shiny FreeBSD 4.2 ISO. > > > > Anyone? > > > > +------------------------------------------+ > > | Greig McGill | > > | Systems Engineer - Compel Automation Ltd | > > | Ph. +64 7 838 3747 Fax. +64 7 838 3737 | > > | web: http://www.compel.co.nz | > > +------------------------------------------+ > > > > > > > > ------------ > > WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group > > To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message. > > > > ------------ > WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group > To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message. > ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] Can anyone recommend good offline news browser
by Gavin Denby 11 Feb '01

11 Feb '01

Is star office reader offline?? SO can do news and e-mail, S.O. will also allow the word doc to display in the e-mail panel which I find usefull, I get lots of e-mail in this format too, thus my reliance of SO for e-mail. (I'm possibly interested in about a tenth of what i'm sent so this saves time for me anyway) But as I am hidden from the real world by a proxy, I have no idea if it is off-line capable or not, I get newsgroups direct off my HDD. Sorry, But it would solve the e-mail query. Have you considered setting up your own news server on the linux box ?? > Actually the attachment problem could be a wider issue because people > will send me Word documents as attachments but I suppose I could open > them in Star Office. Not sure how I would make that at automatic > 1-step click from the email program though. ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Minutes of February Meeting.
by Gavin Denby 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Being our first meeting the agenda of the meeting was constrained to the goals of setting a plan for meetings. It was decided to : 1. Meet Monthly Monday evenings at 7pm 2. Alternate meetings between the BTM building (Presentations, and How-To sessions) and the Amateur radio clubrooms (Hands on and Technical sessions) 3. Try to take over the world, by encouraging others onto open source and linux use. The following Individuals either Volunteered, were guided, or just plain old got the hard word, to put together a presentation on the following topics The Linux Kernel: What it does, What can be done to it, How to Compile/Use your very own Kernel & OOPS - Thanks Raymond Text-Speech on linux. Glen & Bruce Shell Scripts (Pipes?) Pearl and other neat tricks. - Thanks Jonathan IP Chains/Tables and other address Translation tips from the Guru's - Wow isn't Greig McGill Kind :-) Security for your Box: Do you really need it, How to do it, how to audit a problem. - Thanks Perry X-Terms, (Hands on at Clubrooms) - Some will be up for sale afterwards, with any proceeds going to the LUG's costs. - Team Jono and Gavin Clustering ?????? - We are really gonna grovel here, but may get a demo arranged. Linux in the embedded Market. An Overview - Gavin (maybe) Windoze Connectivity. Volunteers Please - How about it Greig ??????????? Squeezing Linux into Tight spaces, Small HDD/Memory installs - Volunteers & stories please. And as things come to mind we can include them too. So the next meeting is Monday 5 March, 7pm. B T M Building 1130 Victoria Street - on the corner next to Claudlands bridge. Subject: The Linux Kernel Courtesy of Perry See you all there ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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Re: [wlug] When/Where is next Linux meet?
by Jon Tocker 30 Jan '01

30 Jan '01

On 30 Jan 01, at 10:42, Bruce Kingsbury wrote: > I'd agree with that, but he referred to using windows devices from > Linux.. EG printing to a WinPrinter from your Gnome desktop.. I've had to > do this in the past, and it's really painful. groan! That's what I'm proposing to do (not being able to afford a replacement for my Star Dozetype 4000) I think I'll try hanging an a4 refill and a biro of the back of my Linux box parallel port - it might be easier. I can't wait for the day when I can consign Windows to the rubbish bin entirely but before then I need to get a Linux-compliant laser- printer (inkjets don't measure up, never will) and convert all my M$ Oriface documents into something that Linux apps can read (#$##$% Microsoft Word's "smart quotes" and other "helpful" characters don't seem to come across into Star Office documents.) For the sake of the blissfully ignorant (and I hope there are some of you out there) "smart" quotes is M$'s option that automatically turns ' and " into "sixes" and "nines" or "sixty-sixes" and "ninety- nines" - depending on whether the apostrophe or double-quote appears to the right or left of a space. Dunno what character set they use, but it doesn't convert back across to ASCII char-set *even* when you tell Word to SaveAs "Text" (which loses all font formatting). Word-produced RTF files can't even be reliably imported into editors that use ASCII. Other "smart" punctuation includes en- and em-spaces, en- and em-dashes and other typographical marks. OK, It can be turned off, but any docs created while it was turned on need to have every single smart punctuation mark replaced before converting to Star Office files. (The only way I've discovered how to do this so far is to use global replace to first of all replace every " or ' or em-space with a character not used anywhere in the document (I used the tilde) then go back and replace all instances of that character with the correct one - assuming "smart punctuation" is turned off ther characters will be standard ASCII. You can't replace " with " in Word) So, regrettably, until I've edited every single document I have on my Windows box and scraped up enough for a real laser printer, I'm going to need to learn how to send my print output down the wire to a doze box to print. Regards Jon Tocker ***There is no spoon*** ------------ WLUG - The Waikato Linux Users Group To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz with "unsubscribe wlug" in the body of the message.

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