July 2004 - wlug - list.wlug.org.nz

Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD
by Craig Box 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 22:02 +0000, Felix Hohener wrote: > Craig > > Just tried this, but I am not going anywhere. Is there any password involved > in the log on or just "user(a)jetstreamgames.co.nz" and nothing else? You need to specify a password I believe, but it can be anything. The username can also be anything as long as it ends with @jetstreamgames.co.nz You can then log in but only connect a range of selected IPs for games servers, including ftp.jetstreamgames.co.nz - make sure that whatever DNS server you're using is inside this list of IPs. You can use jetstreamgames's DNS server at 203.96.91.1 Craig

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Modern software on old hardware
by Craig Box 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

I recently had a Celeron 500 that I wanted to install for my flatmate to use as an internet/email machine. All evidence points to the 2.6 kernel being better on old hardware than 2.4, and in general support for hardware increases as you have newer software, so I thought I'd try installing Fedora Core 2 (then test3) on the machine. I've heard good things about the XFCE desktop environment, so I installed that. The machine started out with 64mb of RAM and took an ice age to install (I think it's about the RPM database needing to be in RAM at install time). It quickly got upgraded to 192mb RAM, which isn't exactly "new modern specs" but is a machine that was better specced than many machines we had at the recent installfest. I ran a quick, responsive, usable desktop environment on a 286 at 10Mhz. Linux was basically unusable on this machine. Software took an age to load, you could hardly run two things at the same time, and it was constantly in swap. The options seemed to be "run Windows 98" (the OS the machine was originally shipped with), or get some sort of Linux distribution that was around the same age. The Fedora Legacy project provides security updates for Red Hat as far back as 7.3, but I really don't want to run old software. In the end I found a surprising third option - I installed Windows XP and turned off most of the flash visual bits and pieces, and ended up with a usable machine running modern software. Not something that I wanted to have to do! There's a long standing belief that Linux can be used to revitalise old hardware. Short of using a terminal server of some description (which wasn't an option in this case), is this true? Craig

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Fedora CDs Request
by Mark Grimshaw 31 Jul '04

31 Jul '04

Hi all, Is anyone able to supply Fedora CDs? Ideally at the university so I can pick them up tomorrow. If so, give me a room number, time to be there and no. CDs to replace. Thanks. Mark Grimshaw.

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GRUB woes
by Mark Grimshaw 31 Jul '04

31 Jul '04

Hi all, I recently upgraded hardware (m'board, CPU, video, RAM etc.) on the system that I've been using dual/boot/GRUB (W2K and, recently RH9) for the last 2 years. Knowing I would have to reinstall the OSs, I installed W2K first then RH9. Unfortunately, I seem to have misplaced GRUB and the system simply goes straight to the W2K boot up. With RH9 installations, I've never been able to make a floppy at the end of the install process (seems to be either a RH9 'feature' or the kernel is too large for the floppy) but have always made the boot floppy from within linux. So, I'm unable to boot linux from this imaginary floppy. My previous RH9 boot floppy clearly has the wrong kernel for the new hardware and I can't load that (both boot floppies I have). I've lost count of the number of times I've reinstalled RH9 in the last few days or chosen the upgrade option from the CD each time trying some different combination of boot loader (including trying to go back to LILO). I've even tried sticking GRUB and LILO on the MBR rather than the boot partition. I have Tom's rtboot and a GRUB floppy both of which run. From these, including the RH9/boot CD/linux rescue option, I've tried grub-install options and grub commandline (root (hd1,0); setup (hd1)) options - each time I get an installed successfully message but each boot, up comes Windows. I have two HDs: W2K (inc. linux swap) on hda LINUX: /dev/hdb3 / /dev/hdb1 /boot I know most HOWTOs state that the linux boot should be on the same hard drive as the windows OS but these are the partitions I've been successfully dual-booting from with GRUB for the past 2 years. I have no more hair left to tear out - please help. Mark.

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This install howto is Literally from hell
by Gavin Denby 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

Just in case you have a had a day as stress filled as mine and need a chuckle, and assuming you can get your hands on a mac http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml After all it does take a special kind of geek to get linux running on a dead badger. Have a surreal day

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RE: [wlug] This install howto is Literally from hell
by Lindsay Druett 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

Well, this is definitely food for discussion with audiophiles around the place, especially musso's... But firstly cooling is not an issue anymore where some ATX P4 cases come provisioned for up to six fans, maybe more, and fans are $ 10.00 each from PB Tech. For the see through cases with neon lights, LEDs, etc, etc, etc, you now have the glow... But the reality, and this appeals to me, is that the sound output is a lot mellower, even harmonics, and a better quality sound all round, especially at the lower end of the sound spectrum. I found eight models of A-Open motherboards with the "TubeSound" feature. It also depends what you are hooking into. If it was my Yamaha amp for home theatre, then nah - I want Dolby Digital/DTS input for the 5.1 (6 Channel) input. But for the NAD setup with two channel listening, then that would be just awesome... Just my some thoughts.... Good find Bruce... > -----Original Message----- > From: zcat [mailto:zcat(a)wired.net.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 29 July 2004 23:41 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] This install howto is Literally from hell > > > I've never really understood what's remotely funny about that page. > > OTOH, this > (http://english.aopen.com.tw/products/mb/ax4b-533tube.htm) is > funny. And apparently real. > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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Re: [wlug] The Burning Desktop issue.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 26 Jul '04

26 Jul '04

PHEW! Did I ask a question? So I should not ask about different distibutions I guess. Thanks for the opinions all, I will try to sort out the information. Regards John.. ----- Original Message Follows ----- > The simple answer is Gavin, you know nothing about > computers and you are stuck in front of the computer and > told to view a web page, does the desktop lend itself to > making it shit easy to launch a browser? > > Is the desktop intuitive? if it needs to much thought to > figure it out, its not a good desktop. > > Will it adapt? and is it simple to adapt? > > Will it support non visual forms of I/O? > > If it needs a super computer to execute then it is not a > good desktop, so is it scale-able? > > KISS! > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

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The Burning Desktop issue.
by Gavin Denby 26 Jul '04

26 Jul '04

As I come to the end of my Live CD evaluations, (Yours left today Oliver, sorry it took so long) I have found myself asking a really interesting question of what makes a good desktop. Naturally the best answer is "one that does what the user wants it to do." the problem is what does the average desktop user want to do ? In a sort of applied way, I used to sell cellphones, and people would come in and ask for a good deal on a cellphone, and the traditional sales role was here is model on special for ... model B if you more features. I alway started with the question, what are you wanting to do with it who will be using it, and how many calls will it receive and make. then I cold tailor the best package for the user, I also sold the most car and truck phones (installed) of any rep, and had a strong business clientelle. They needed tools, not cheep phones. Later I would get people asking my advice on buying a laptop, my question was the same, what do you want to do with it, where do you plan to use it, is battery life or speed and graphics your goal. PC's are flexible tools, My father in law's pc is used for genealogy, writes document files, e-mail and Internet and plays solitaire. My wifes sister, surfs the net and uses chat software, while her son plays games and only games. My wife does spreadsheets, makes sewing graphics for her janome, so she users her scanner, downloads images/video her digital camera and firewire camcorder and makes movies with this, she also also creates musical soundtracks with live instruments, writes music scores and of course also uses it for e-mail and web surfing. of course it all need printing. I hack software (with permission of course) develop electronic circuits, generate code for Microcontrollers, write manuals, test software , re-write manuals keep track of work flow, run a bug track system, manage servers, mange remote systems by short life dial up connections. Update my ipaq and handle huge amounts of e-mail including tech support. A lot of printing, a little video and very really some scanning. Oh and I move around a lot , so I am wireless. My son plays games ...... oh yeah, he surfs the net to get patches for his games too ......... Nah thats it he plays Games. So what is an average user ??? ..... Maybe someone who can use and average desktop. Circular logic ??? Maybe thats why there is so much of a problem with deciding on a desktop distro. so here is my take based on a newbie with a first PC. E-Mail with an easy to set up pop client Web Browser with Flash, shockwave and Java either installed, or easy to do so. Document writer that can output a word document (possibly powerpoint if you are a student... they always ask for this) IM Client AOL and MSN IRC software P2P software, (I hate it ...but lets be real) Easy to setup dial up to an isp or Basic adsl options. (get a router ... Grrrrr ) Printer support Basic games (solitaire) Digital Camera support Play Music CD's Play MP3's An easy to use volume control. The ability to find and install software that suits their interests .. E.G genealogy software, and preferably with a description of what the software will do. Access to help and/or support forums that are easy to use. A Simple guide to getting started. An Instruction Manual .. so they can loose it before anyone reads it. Let me know if I missed anything obvious that would be a must have. but based on this, any of the distros commented on here would do this, and do it well. so at the end of the day it comes down to the user experience, and the general feel of the interface. Naturally Windows users will look for familiarity in the interface, Mac users aren't so fussy but have their own likes and dislikes. Linux users will just modify it to what they want. Boot time matters a little, as most users shut the machine down, and run it up when they want to use it, but the responsiveness of the desktop probably matters more, it should have a nice snappy feel. The biggest issue will be what happens when our newbie plugs his/her digital camera in, will it work? is it hard to use. Trust me .. command line will really cause an issue here. Then it will be adding some new software. I've already said what I plan to test so far, And I have added cobind to the mix as it seemed to be a suitable candidate for a fedora desktop. But its hard to come up with really objective test methodologies as I would have to know what an average user is ... and here we go again .... -- "Engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance." Dr A R Dykes.

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RE: [wlug] Suse Live CD
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 26 Jul '04

26 Jul '04

I had a look at the review on this distro, From what I read, it seems ideal for a newbie.The only negative comments I found was that dvd movie play can be a real hassle to set up.. Boot time is a little longer than some other distros but that is not really so important is it? If anyone has got this distro installed I would like to see some opinion/critique, also if you are a new user or a seasoned Linuxer. Regards John.. > > Hey Gund, > > I loaded SuSE onto my desktop here at Uni. > What an awesome distro... > Very easy to load up. Thanks again. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gund Wehsling > > [mailto:Gund.Wehsling(a)computerland.co.nz] Sent: > > Thursday, 22 July 2004 13:09 To: Waikato Linux Users > > Group Subject: RE: [wlug] Suse Live CD > > > > > > Hi > > > > I am in Collingwood street and have good copies of both > > the live 9.1 and > > personal 9.1 install. > > > > I am quite busy during the day, but will make copies on > > a swap for a blank basis. Mail me off list for contact > > details and when and where. > > Rgds > > > > > > > > Gund > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wayne Rooney [mailto:wrooney(a)ihug.co.nz] > > Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 1:27 a.m. > > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > > Subject: Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD > > > > > > >finally got the iso, but its bad > > > > >redownoading but at least tomorrow before its here , so > > if anyone else > > has it ...... > > > > A tip for the future. If you've got a bad iso, find an > > rsync mirror and > > use > > rsync to repair it. Much quicker that re-downloading an > > entire iso. > > Wayne > > > > _______________________________________________ > > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Unsubscribe: > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > _______________________________________________ > > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Unsubscribe: > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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SuSE and Novell
by Gund Wehsling 26 Jul '04

26 Jul '04

Hi There have been some comments about SuSE in the last day or two and here is what I can tell you from a Novell point of view and I hope this will shed some light. Most of this is from reading between the lines. I am no LINUX pro either, I am a NetWare specialist (although novell had better ideas than to employ me), though I am following Novell through this "very difficult period" ;-) SuSE 9.1 personal is designed for home users who want to send and recieve mail, use thier printers, scanners, see the internet and write the odd spreadsheet and letter. That is why it is so simple and installs easily off one disc with no fuss. It is slow to start compared to other distros, but you will notice the kernel is about 1.8MB (on my machine) and for this reason it also auto detects nicely and the 'home' components work well for most machines. If you wanted to be a power user or compile your own kernel, perhaps 9.1 Pro is for you. I see that Novell now offers this as a free FTP install from thier site, something SuSE never did. If you want a server, then Novell recommends you use SuSE server 8.0, another free download, although limited time (90 day). I have been told it will cost about $650 per server (not per processor) to license. It is really, really easy to install and setup and really easy to integrate into other products. Example would be the demo I went to installed Standard edition, then eDirectory, then migrated users from Win/NetWare, setup Samba, in less than two hours, from blank hardware, the users where able to sign in and get to thier home directories. Obviously the copying of thier data will take longer. eDirectory is free too! I would like to step out and make an observation here that may cause the throwing of some chairs, but please bear with me. I would like to stress the importance of SuSE, perhaps not as the next big technological be all for everybody, but as the bleeding edge of a business model so many open source people have hoped for for a long time now. Novell is a large commercial concern and they are possible putting more than everything into the development and distribution of this OS than has been done before. Perhaps it is not the best distro there for you, but they are working in a commercial field now, so demographics and averages play a big part here. It is not likely to be the most powerful desktop in the market and it may have proprietry or non-compatible elements to what you are used to, but that is what change is about. Something new is good, even if it is something challenging or different. Please understand that Novell has large overheads (apart fom marketing open source software), so they cannot exist by giving away free software that meets all the needs and requirements of everybody and open source licensing prevents them from completely modifying everything. So, to generate income, they have produced products like NLS and ported most of thier existing application to LINUX. This creates not only viable and sustainable business migration paths, but also show big business that it is possible to do everything they need for less, better, with a well established and reliable software/server vendor. There is a state of mind in big business that free software fails and is dificult to support. Novell is working really hard to disspell this. If you are in the integrator market, you will see that Novell is handing out heaps of free training and publicity to push this. Try it thoroughly before you knock it, if it is not for you, then try something else. This is where I will be though. Throw your chairs. I have a copy of SuSE 8.0 limited time server if you are interested in showing your customer something new. I can make copies, over the weekends only though. Have fun and go easy when you flame me, I am new here. gund

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