- wlug - list.wlug.org.nz

Our leader on tv
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 14 Nov '04

14 Nov '04

Hi All, Whilst watching a PC game review on TV yesterday I saw a cut shot showing an evil leader from game land speaking to his throng. It said in part. "You are living under the the benevolence of the iron fist". Seeing and hearing this prompted me to don my foil hat and await further instructions. Did not hear anything yet, are we going to be OK???????????? :-) Regards John If you want another laugh, ask me how the Gentoo install is going !!!!!!

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help requested on making an iso
by Gavin Denby 11 Nov '04

11 Nov '04

I am helping out a friend in the US who has drifted of to sleep (understandably) I have downloaded from him a slackware directory structure from a cd and after some fixes we wish to make it into a bootable CD iso. SO far I can do everything except figure out how to make the cd bootable. Can anyone point me to a guide (that makes sense) on using mkisofs or can I use a better tool such as k3b in some way I am missing. Everything we need from slackware should be there (isolinux and such) but I cannot figure out what is missing to make the iso boot. I even tried under windows, but that was worse as the boot images tried to load a floppy. Any help appreciated, as this is something I have never done before ( and now I know why) is there a simple guide to making a bootable slackware install cd ?

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Fwd: Re: [wlug] Gentoo install
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 11 Nov '04

11 Nov '04

Sorry Daniel did not mean to reply to you only This is another possible problem! nano -w /mnt/gentoo/etc/make.conf I have a PENTIUM3 processor so am writing, CFLAGS="-march=pentium3 -pipe -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer #-mcpu686 has been deleted by me as I thought it was causing a conflict CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}" #CHOST is unchanged as per the warning! #I am assuming this to mean exactly the same for CXXFLAGS as CFLAGS MAKEOPTS="j2" <control X then enter> Does this appear to be correct?? Regards John > The section you referred to did not exist when I installed > gentoo. While it is not marked as an optional section, > I'd say it is optional - you may find compilation takes a > bit longer if you have multiple locales, but it > definitely won't kill anything. > >

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Sangoma Wanpipe Frame Relay Interface boards.
by Oliver Jones 11 Nov '04

11 Nov '04

I have a couple of Sangoma Wanpipe boards I want to sell. I have a quad port (dual cpu) 5142 PCI Frame Relay (serial V.35/X.21/RS232) interface board and a dual port (single cpu) 5141 PCI Frame Relay (V.35/X.21/RS232) interface board. Both are in excellent condition. They were working sweet when I last used them many moons ago and they have been in storage in their original boxes since then. The dual channel board cost about $2500 originally and the single channel about $1500. Not sure what they are worth now. I originally imported them from Canada. I would be interested in any offers. I'm offering them here because I thought A) Linux users are more likely to need/want this sort of thing, B) they work in Linux really well as Sangoma Wanpipe drivers have been in the Kernel for many years. If no one here is interested I'll stick 'em up on Trademe. Specs: http://www.sangoma.com/products/p_s5141-specs.htm http://www.sangoma.com/products/p_s5142a-specs.htm Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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Gentoo install
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 11 Nov '04

11 Nov '04

Hi All. I have just noticed the the printed instructions that I have are a few lines short of a page: Installing the Gentoo base system in my book has Code 8 listing: opening /etc/make.conf code 9 listing: USE setting then goes straight to Optional: using distributed compiling Revisiting the Gentoo site has shown this info to be on the page also.. < You will probably only use one or maybe two locales on your system. Up until now after compiling glibc a full set of all available locales will be created. As of now you can activate the userlocales USE flag and specify only the locales you will need in /etc/locales.build. Code Listing 10: Activate the userlocales USE flag especially for glibc # mkdir /etc/portage # echo "sys-libs/glibc userlocales" >> /etc/portage/package.use Now specify the locales you want to be able to use: Code Listing 11: nano -w /etc/locales.build en_US/ISO-8859-1 en_US.UTF-8/UTF-8 de_DE/ISO-8859-1 de_DE(a)euro/ISO-8859-15 Optional: Using Distributed Compiling > Is this a likely reason for the install going badly for me??? Will I need en_US/ISO-8895-1 ? just one entry? Regards John

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ISP plans (was Along comes another Fedora Core release...)
by David Nicholls 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

interesting... i know someone else who wanted to go the orcon way and got sick of waiting so went back to telecom. prob is they cant get hold of orcom to cancel. they are now left wondering if somethings happened to them. anyone know? cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Oliver Jones [mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 9 November 2004 11:46 am Subject: Re: [wlug] Along comes another Fedora Core release... On Tue, 2004-11-09 at 11:29, Gavin Denby wrote: I am getting my jetstream upgrade tomorrow, so not yet sorry. But then I get the new 40 GB/mth limits What ISP/Plan is that? I switched to Orcon last week. Sick of Telecom. Waiting to get switched over though. Regards -- Oliver Jones > Director > <mailto:oliver.jones(a)deeperdesign.com> oliver(a)deeperdesign.com > +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited > +64 (7) 377 3328 > <http://www.deeperdesign.com> www.deeperdesign.com

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RE: [wlug] ISP plans (was Along comes another Fedora Core release...)
by Lindsay Druett 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

Ironically, I was talking to Richard from Satlan last night about upgrading my aDSL connection, and he pointed to Telecom Website, and yeah, this does take quite a bit of find (quite deliberate I'd say), but you can get to here, http://www.telecom.co.nz/chm/0,5123,203160-202570,00.html , and here are the plans that you can get from other ISPs. He tells me it works, so all I have to do is sign up for the new plan I want. They do the change on your billing day. Incidentally, both Clear Communications and Telstra (when they were separate) had little ATD boxes which did digit insertion, so when you dialled say 095209414, it inserted 050 in front so that you got 050095209414. I wish I kept some of those, does anyone know where they can be sourced from, I going to have a hunt, but they could save $ 10.00 a month now :) Maybe you know Gavin. Oh well, I'm about to go in for our monthly Telecom meeting, I'll ask them - I won't mention the ATD idea. -----Original Message----- From: David Nicholls Sent: Wednesday, 10 November 2004 09:56 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Subject: [wlug] ISP plans (was Along comes another Fedora Core release...) interesting... i know someone else who wanted to go the orcon way and got sick of waiting so went back to telecom. prob is they cant get hold of orcom to cancel. they are now left wondering if somethings happened to them. anyone know? cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Oliver Jones [mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 9 November 2004 11:46 am Subject: Re: [wlug] Along comes another Fedora Core release... On Tue, 2004-11-09 at 11:29, Gavin Denby wrote: I am getting my jetstream upgrade tomorrow, so not yet sorry. But then I get the new 40 GB/mth limits What ISP/Plan is that? I switched to Orcon last week. Sick of Telecom. Waiting to get switched over though. Regards -- Oliver Jones > Director > <mailto:oliver.jones(a)deeperdesign.com> oliver(a)deeperdesign.com > +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited > +64 (7) 377 3328 > <http://www.deeperdesign.com> www.deeperdesign.com

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RE: [wlug] The Microsoft Antivirus Reward Program
by Lindsay Druett 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

> Sure, but if there's an unknown potential flaw in a window of > your house, which > causes it to break if tapped three times or somesuch, and a > thief uses this to > break in and steal all your stuff. > Regardless of the fact that the window company may or may not > be fixing the > issue in future, would you make such snide comments if the > police etc still > hunted the thief and the window making company put up some > incentive to assist > this? I don't think so. > > Not trying to defend MS here or anything like that, just that > the whole "it's > cool to bash microsoft without thinking about it, because > we're linux people > and therefore we're so much smarter/better than them" > attitude grows tiresome > at times. But at the end of the day, using the scenario here, the job of the window company is to fix this flaw and stop producing windows with this flaw, not go around and knee-cap someone because they discovered and exploited this flaw. Believe it or not, Chubb international have a safe somewhere with a wod of cash in it, and if someone successfully breaks into that safe, providing they tell Chubb how they broke into that safe, the money is theirs. I'm not trying to defend criminals, but I don't think it's Microsoft's place to knee-cap people who exploit their vulnerabilities, it's their job to proactively find and fix vulnerabilities and not make any vulnerabilities public knowledge without a solution to fix the problem.

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RE: [wlug] The Microsoft Antivirus Reward Program
by Lindsay Druett 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

> You are right in that it is Microsoft's first responsibility should be > to correct the flaws in its products and commercial behaviour > that allow > these problems to propagate. It is however in their interest to also > try and find and prosecute these individuals. A few high profile > convictions may send a "message" to virus writers that what they do > isn't so smart. > Yes, but from any level of incident response, the DIY approach is not a good approach. Personally, I see this as Microsoft taking the law into their own hands. I can fully understand the Microsoft is rather pissed at the moment. The appropriate authorities such as the FBI in America, or closer to home, the NZ Police Electronic Crimes Lab are there to hunt down, catch, arrest, and convict cyber-criminals. Tell me, what is the difference between me beating up a thief with a baseball bat and Microsoft doing what they intend to do. > The only problem we have is that the "good guys" could get > painted with > the same brush as the "bad guys". The "good guys" being > those grey and > white hats who find bugs and write proof of concept exploits and post > them to forums such as bugtraq. These guys help make the software > safer. However as a side effect they also help the morons who write > 800k VB viruses cause havoc. Which is unfortunate. But it is > ultimately the moronic VB virus coders who are the problem not the > people who find the software flaws in the first place. > It's the case of slowly educating the public, people are slow learners. If they only realised that stealing cars these days also requires a similar level of skill.

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Along comes another Fedora Core release...
by Oliver Jones 08 Nov '04

08 Nov '04

Along comes another Fedora Core release, so here comes the obligatory beg for a copy on CD. :) Anyone out there with bandwidth to burn who wouldn't mind burning me a copy? Thanks PS, Got my copy of Halo 2 this morning.... champing at the bit to play but gotta work... damn it. ;) Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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The Microsoft Antivirus Reward Program
by Lindsay Druett 08 Nov '04

08 Nov '04

Hey All, Please excuse the hypertext, but this came from LAN1s website, http://www.lan1.co.nz/default.aspx?p=snippet&story=1 , Fasinating... The Microsoft Antivirus Reward Program In an effort to help law enforcement agencies identify and bring to justice those who illegally release damaging worms, viruses, and other types of malicious code on the Internet, Microsoft has created the Microsoft® Antivirus Reward Program, initially funded with US$5 million. Through this program, Microsoft will offer monetary rewards to persons who provide information that leads to the arrest and conviction of those responsible for launching malicious viruses and worms on the Internet. Both the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Secret Service, in coordination with Interpol, will investigate leads that are provided through this program in order to identify and prosecute those responsible for such crimes that harm the private industry and the public. $750,000 in Awards Currently Offered Microsoft is offering three rewards under the Antivirus Rewards Program. . The first reward, in the amount of US$250,000, is for information that results in the arrest and conviction of those responsible for launching the MSBlast.A worm (also known as Blaster). The worm was designed to prevent consumers from installing the latest software updates by attacking Microsoft's Windows® Update website, which provides updates to help users protect their computers against malicious attacks. . The second reward, in the amount of $250,000, is for information that results in the arrest and conviction of those responsible for launching the Sobig virus. This virus, the first variant of which was detected on January 10, 2003, attacked individual machines and sent itself to each e-mail address in the computer's contact list. The Sobig.B and Sobig.C variants of the virus made messages appear as if they had come from official Microsoft e-mail addresses. . The third reward, in the amount of $250,000, is for information that results in the arrest and conviction of those responsible for launching the Mydoom.B worm. Mydoom.B is a variant of the MyDoom.A worm, also known as the Novarg worm, which spread quickly to infect computers worldwide. The release of Mydoom.B triggered the first alert from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's new National Cyber Alert System.

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New releases today
by Craig Box 08 Nov '04

08 Nov '04

Slashdot will no doubt have picked up on these, but Fedora Core 3 and the Novell Linux Desktop 9 have both been released. FC3 is available from http://fedora.redhat.com/ (use the torrent at http://torrent.dulug.duke.edu/) - we'll have it by the end of the day and I'm sure that some people will grab it from those who have it and arrange distribution. The NLD is a "commercial product" with a "30 day evaluation version", which is the standard full version with a Novell ZENworks (Red Carpet, for those who remember Ximian) Update code valid that's only valid for 30 days - you can still use it forever. Based on Phil Kangro's demonstration and reviews, it sounds like this will be a very interesting release. Built on SUSE 9.2 and running GNOME 2.6, this is basically what Ximian do now. Check it out at http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/index.html?sourceidint=homepage_annou ncement1 and we'll probably have a copy of that by the end of today too. Craig

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FW: Y Windows
by David Nicholls 08 Nov '04

08 Nov '04

This one souns interesting guys -----Original Message----- From: Michael Lee [mailto:mike(a)loginlogic.net] Sent: Saturday, 6 November 2004 5:45 pm To: David Nicholls Subject: Fw: Y Windows > Heard of it?? > > http://www.y-windows.org/about.html

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Books... anyone want these?
by Oliver Jones 05 Nov '04

05 Nov '04

Hi. I have a few books I no longer need. They aren't Linux related but some geeks amongst you all might want them. They are: Access 97 Developers Handbook - good Access 97 programming manual, probably applies to later versions but I've never used Access past the '97 version so I wouldn't know. Programming Windows 95 (Charles Petzold) - The Petzold books a very good. Held up as the best Windows API books etc. Obviously this is a tad out of date as the Win32 API has moved on a bit but I'm sure a lot of it is still useful to some degree. This teachs the Win32 API. No frameworks. Just raw C API. Programming Windows 95 with MFC. If you want to be productive programming GUI apps in Windows you need to learn some sort of framework. MFC is Microsoft's framework of doom. No doubt this book is very aged. I imagine MFC would have moved on quite a lot since this was published. But it may still be somewhat relevant. However if I was to write a GUI app in Windows these days I'd write it in C# or some such thing. If anyone has any interest please email me. Otherwise I'll try and find homes for them on Trademe... Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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live cd
by David Nicholls 02 Nov '04

02 Nov '04

anyone up here at the uni happen to have a live cd of any sort handy i can get a copy of? cheers... David Nicholls Computer Support Consultant School of Science & Engineering/Dept of Chemistry The University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

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Re: [wlug] Job Search reqeust
by Lindsay Druett 01 Nov '04

01 Nov '04

> Since a client cancelled a contract I had lined up for summer while > I'm on a break from uni I find myself in need of a job. I thought > there may be someone on this list that needs a willing worker for the > summer (and possibly during semester as well). > I'm a competant programmer, mainly Java but some experience in C and > PHP as well. I've written commercial software (two small business > accounting packages and a customer services database). I have some > SQL experience. Willing to learn new things. Would really > appreciate a job where I can develop SysAdmin or networking skills. Well, it seems like young fellas these days are right into pick and choose. I would have got my ear clipped for this 15-20 years ago. Yep, if there is a young fella who has done an electrical pre-apprenticeship course, or is an electrical apprentice who needs to kill some hours of of his/her apprenticeship, then I could do do with some assistance with fitting off a house that is being built by Habitat For Humanity, it is voluntary work (you will be working for God), but there is an inroad to learning a useful trade. I would also be happy with someone who current holds his/her EST practicing licence. I will be doing the fit off sometime this week.

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Job Search reqeust
by James Pluck 31 Oct '04

31 Oct '04

Since a client cancelled a contract I had lined up for summer while I'm on a break from uni I find myself in need of a job. I thought there may be someone on this list that needs a willing worker for the summer (and possibly during semester as well). I'm a competant programmer, mainly Java but some experience in C and PHP as well. I've written commercial software (two small business accounting packages and a customer services database). I have some SQL experience. Willing to learn new things. Would really appreciate a job where I can develop SysAdmin or networking skills. If anyway has any leads or would like to talk to me please email me or give me a call. James Pluck. papabearnz(a)gmail.com cell: 0-21-236 6900 home: 0-7-858 3338 (Hamilton) Thank you. I now return you to your regularly scheduled list. -- I, on the other hand, am a fully rounded human being with a degree from the university of life, a diploma from the school of hard knocks, and three gold stars from the kindergarten of getting the shit kicked out of me. -- Edmund BlackAdder

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Acceptable use of the WLUG Mailing List
by Meeting Reminder bot 31 Oct '04

31 Oct '04

The WLUG mailing list is the discussion-list extension of the Waikato Linux Users Group. As such, we expect members of this list to adhere to the principals espoused in our official Charter[1], in particular, Rule 6, which covers the activities on this mailing list. While this is an Acceptable Use Policy, the WLUG committee do recognise the need for informal discussion among list members, and draconian administration is not the goal of this policy. Please keep in mind, however, that your comments to this list do represent the WLUG, and while it is good to be seen as an organisation with a sense of humour, some comments may do serious harm to our credibility as a serious advocate of GNU/Linux and all things Free Software/Open Source related. List discussion: * Should not commit slander or libel against any person or organisation * Should not be unprofessional or petty, especially with respect to the names of other software companies * Should not indulge in ad hominem attacks * Should not reproduce copyrighted material without permission from the copyright holder * Should not indulge in marketing or advertising, other than on a private sale basis, or advertising of jobs - which may be announced once only. * Should maintain a reasonable level of spelling and grammar * Should be honest * Should not promote or denigrate political, cultural, or religious views * Should not continue inflammatory or abusive threads * Should accentuate the positive, without hyperbole or blatant misrepresentation Posters who consistently violate these guidelines will be dealt with at the discretion of the List Maintainer. If you feel you have been unfairly dealt with, you have recourse to any member of the WLUG Committee[2]. [1] http://www.wlug.org.nz/WlugCharter [2] http://www.wlug.org.nz/WlugCommittee

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Anyone else noted landscape printing problems?
by Michael McDonald 30 Oct '04

30 Oct '04

Yesterday I had some difficulty trying to address a set of envelopes for an organisation that I belong to. Was using Open Office (using mail merge) running under Fedora Core 2. The envelopes were being printed in landscape mode. The problem was that the addresses did not print at the planned position. Changing margins etc, to try and fix the problem didn't work as sometimes the shift in location didn't match the change! In order to get the job done, I had to use Open Office running under Windows XP. Also, I've noted that sometimes when I specify a custom page size, all I get is a blank sheet! The fix to that problem is to specify A4 and adjust right and bottom margins to suit. Comments, anyone? Michael

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gentoo cds
by Stephen Pearce 26 Oct '04

26 Oct '04

Hi Has anyone downloaded the gentoo live universal cd and the packages cd (86 architectecture). I tried recently and the internet connection choked... If so would you be able to send me copies for media and postage? Thanks Stephen

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[Fwd: Fake RedHat - Fedora Security Patch / Trojan Source Code & Analysis]
by Greig McGill 26 Oct '04

26 Oct '04

You probably all read slashdot, but here is the security advisory anyway. Be careful out there, boys and girls! Your friendly neighbourhood FIST OF DOOM!

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WLUG Meeting is tonight
by Meeting Reminder bot 24 Oct '04

24 Oct '04

The WLUG meeting is this evening ---------------------------------------------------------------------- !!Live fixup demonstration Monday 25 October (Labour Day) - taking advantage of the holiday, we will start at 4pm, look over a few peoples problems, and run a presentation at 5pm with an introduction on how to find answers to Linux questions online (especially Google and the Wiki), 10 min Q&A and then go over fixing some problems live on a big screen. This one is a great opportunity for new and inexperienced users! Please bring machines. 4pm, 25 October%%% University of Waikato%%% Room: LitB.G.02 Park in Gate 1, Knighton Rd * http://www.waikato.ac.nz/perl-bin/map/tt-map.pl?term=litb * http://www.waikato.ac.nz/contacts/map.pdf

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Re: [wlug] Re Wiki Gentoo notes
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 23 Oct '04

23 Oct '04

Buggar!!!! Thanks ----- Original Message Follows ----- > On Sat, 2004-10-23 at 21:03 +1300, jaytee(a)clear.net.nz > > wrote: I did the boot from install disk and made the > > changes I thought needed, everything went pretty well > > until I: "make dep && make bzImage modules > > modules_install" <enter> There was a fair bit of > > activety then a report "make: no rule to make target > > bzImages". Stop regards John > > There is no bzImages. Just bzImage. Did you typo? > > G. > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Re: [wlug] Re Wiki Gentoo notes
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 23 Oct '04

23 Oct '04

----- Original Message Follows ----- > One of the (many) great things about gentoo is that it > doesn't force you into a pre-defined install pattern. > > > What you should do, is boot from the install disk like > your starting from scratch - then just mount your disks > (mount /dev/hda3 /mnt/gentoo > mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/gentoo/boot > swapon /dev/hda2 etc.) > then enter the chroot enviroment > (chroot /mnt/gentoo > env-update > source /etc/profile etc.) > > then you can just correct what is wrong - ie by running > genkernel I did the boot from install disk and made the changes I thought needed, everything went pretty well until I: "make dep && make bzImage modules modules_install" <enter> There was a fair bit of activety then a report "make: no rule to make target bzImages". Stop regards John

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Fwd: Re: [wlug] Re Wiki Gentoo notes
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 23 Oct '04

23 Oct '04

----- Message Forwarded on Fri 22/10/2004 ----- From: "" <jaytee(a)clear.net.nz> To: Felix <ferina(a)xtra.co.nz> Subject: Re: [wlug] Re Wiki Gentoo notes Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:37:50 +1300 ----- Original Message Follows ----- > ^G = Get Help > ^O = Write File > ^X = Exit, > If modified it will ask "Save modified buffer ..." > Y(es)/N(o)/^C(ancel) Felix. I did not get these options,, it is a very minimal bash script in Grub edit. I can make changes but not keep them for next boot time.. All I made a major error in compiling the kernel so am going to reinstall from scratch for two reasons. One: I am not sure if the error is recoverable Two: I am becoming a bit less scared of the command environment. There is one thing that is are a bit of a problem, Capital o and zero are a bit of a guess, is there a rule whe it should be a 0 (zero) and when it should be a O (o) Regards John...

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Passwords and SSH
by Perry Lorier 22 Oct '04

22 Oct '04

I have had several people talk to me over the last few days about having their machine compromised. The infection vector appears to be weak ssh passwords. The compromise appears to based on people scanning for open ssh ports then brute forcing passwords before installing a Trojan that connects to IRC and accept commands from a channel (such as .ddos <ip>). Please, make sure you're using a secure password. If passwd warns you that a password is insecure, CHANGE IT. http://www.wlug.org.nz/ChoosingPasswords provides a couple of methods on how to choose a good password. Make sure everything is up to date on your system: for debian: apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade -u for fedora core click on the blinking red (!) in the corner to get it to do the updates. If you don't use ssh (or don't know what it is) DISABLE IT, or just uninstall it. If you do use ssh, consider using tcpwrappers to lock it to something like "*.nz". See http://www.wlug.org.nz/AdvancedSecurityNotes. To check if you've been compromised, try "locate emech". If it shows up any files (particularly in /tmp or /var/tmp) then you have been compromised. Bugger. If you have, and need help, email me off list and we'll talk about what you can do.

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WLUG Meeting is on monday
by Meeting Reminder bot 21 Oct '04

21 Oct '04

The WLUG meeting is on monday ---------------------------------------------------------------------- !!Live fixup demonstration Monday 25 October (Labour Day) - taking advantage of the holiday, we will start at 4pm, look over a few peoples problems, and run a presentation at 5pm with an introduction on how to find answers to Linux questions online (especially Google and the Wiki), 10 min Q&A and then go over fixing some problems live on a big screen. This one is a great opportunity for new and inexperienced users! Please bring machines. 4pm, 25 October%%% University of Waikato%%% Room: LitB.G.02 Park in Gate 1, Knighton Rd * http://www.waikato.ac.nz/perl-bin/map/tt-map.pl?term=litb * http://www.waikato.ac.nz/contacts/map.pdf

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Re: [wlug] Re Wiki Gentoo notes
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 21 Oct '04

21 Oct '04

(EDIT) ..have NOT figured out a way to save.. blush: > Regards John.....

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Re: [wlug] Re Wiki Gentoo notes
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 21 Oct '04

21 Oct '04

Hi All, I have just installed Gentoo On my desktop. I did however, make a few errors on the way to boot time (I can see the surprised looks :-) ) When I created (in Nano)/boot/grub/grub.conf I made an entry of: kernel /kernel-2.4226-gentoo-r6. the correct entry is: kernel /kernel-2.4.26-gentoo-r6. I am able to correct this in grub but I have figured out a way to save the change. ^X does not do it and I am loathe to hit keys at random as I have already had some undesirable results due to this. There are more errors but I thought I would try doing one thing at a time for a change. I think some of my newbiness might have worn off in the last week or so hee hee. Regards John.....

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October committee meeting minutes available
by Craig Box 20 Oct '04

20 Oct '04

Hi everyone, WLUG committee met last night - as usual, our minutes are available on the Wiki, this time at http://www.wlug.org.nz/CommitteeMeetingTopics.2004-10-20. Please remember the upcoming WLUG meeting on Monday is at 4pm and that there will be a presentation at 5pm. Bring things that need fixing! Regards, Craig

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RE: [wlug] MacOS X....
by Matthew Browne (DSL HN) 20 Oct '04

20 Oct '04

> From: Oliver Jones [mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz] > > http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/ooo-osx_downloads.html > <http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/ooo-osx_downloads.html> > > > Hmm. Same place I was looking before. Lots of the mirrors > report 404 errors. I managed to get a copy from one of the > mirrors in the end though. After installing X11 and OOo I > fired it up and it's about as good as you could expect for a > Unix app on a Mac. Ie, not very good. It would do for a > geek like me. I could put up with it being completely > different to everything else. But on reflection I think I > need a more "MacOS" like app for my mother. So I downloaded > the MS Office:Mac 30 day trial. I will give that a going > over and see if it is worth the $700+ it costs.... I don't know much about Mac Office software, I never need anything like that, but from what I hear, many Mac users don't like either of MS Office or Open Office. If word processing is all your mother needs, it might be worth checking out some of these instead... Nisus Writer http://www.nisus.com/Express/ Abiword http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/abiword/ NeoOffice/J (Open Office with Java UI) http://www.planamesa.com/neojava/en/index.php If you're after any other software, it might be worth having a look through the categories here: http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/ And http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/

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ICS control
by Jared Wigmore 19 Oct '04

19 Oct '04

I'm using Internet Connection Sharing to access the (family) Windows computer's Internet connection from my Linux box. How could it be controlled (eg connect/disconnect) from Linux? ===== -- JaredWigmore -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GCM/CS/S d? s+++:-- a? C++++ UL++ P--- L++ E>+++ W++ N>+ o? K- w--- O? M-- V-- PS-- Y-- PGP- t+++ 5? X R* tv b++ DI D G e- h! !r z- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ http://www.wlug.org.nz/JaredWigmore http://AnswersInGenisis.org/ http://www.againsttcpa.com/ ---------------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com

2 1

WLUG Meeting is one week away
by Meeting Reminder bot 18 Oct '04

18 Oct '04

The Waikato Linux Users Group have a meeting in one week today. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- !!Live fixup demonstration Monday 25 October (Labour Day) - taking advantage of the holiday, we will start at 4pm, look over a few peoples problems, and run a presentation at 5pm with an introduction on how to find answers to Linux questions online (especially Google and the Wiki), 10 min Q&A and then go over fixing some problems live on a big screen. This one is a great opportunity for new and inexperienced users! Please bring machines. 4pm, 25 October%%% University of Waikato%%% Room: LitB.G.02 Park in Gate 1, Knighton Rd * http://www.waikato.ac.nz/perl-bin/map/tt-map.pl?term=litb * http://www.waikato.ac.nz/contacts/map.pdf

9 9

Re Wiki Gentoo notes
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 18 Oct '04

18 Oct '04

Hi All I thought I saw some one demonstrate a really easy way of getting files downloaded and installed in the Gentoo distro. As root # up <name_of_package> Computer then searches for and reports back: "I would install Files <name> to <name> If the user was satisfied with the report then the "p" is deleted <enter> and the update goes ahead. I did not put this in the wiki In case I was totally wrong, it did happen once :-) Regards John

5 5

Removing FC2
by Gun Caundle 14 Oct '04

14 Oct '04

I have FC2 on a box that I want to put Windows on. How do I uninstall FC2? Any help would be appreciated.

4 5

SuSE boot challenge
by Gun Caundle 14 Oct '04

14 Oct '04

I have just installled SuSE Standard Server 8 on a AMD 1200 with 384 RAM. The installation told me it was successful. I previously had FC2 on this PC. I booted normally and go a black screen immediately after: "Starting httpd PERL SSL" Using 'Ctl-Alt-F1' I logged in and in text mode was able to shut down OK. I tried another video card and Yast detected it along with the onboard card (S3 Pro Savage DDR-K) I used originally. I checked out the SuSE Hardware database and the onboard card is fully supported. I removed the temporary card, plugged into the onboard card and this time SuSE booted into KDE! For about a week I booted into KDE and played around with the network settings but then one morning it went back to the black screen immediately after: "Starting httpd PERL SSL". Every time I boot, this is as far as it will go. Any help would be appreciated

2 2

StartCom Linux
by Gavin Denby 13 Oct '04

13 Oct '04

Based on my search for desktop targeted linuxes, and the WLUG's commitment to Redhat/Fedora I wondered if anyone has any experience with StartCom Linux It looks promising but seems based on RHEL rather than fedora, but since it used up2date it may need only to have the source lists changed to get to fedora core upgrades, but without the long task of reinstalling all the "extra's" that are missing in fedora core. I wonder if this could be a distro we could use for new users that everyone could also support as it seems to cover most bases. I will download and try it, but it will take me the best part of a week to get all the cd's down and burnt. so If anyone has any experiences to share, I would appreciate them. the basic specs for the new multimedia version is : Based on the stability, reliability and security of it's Enterprise brother for it's system functionality, ML-3.0.3 offers the demanding home user a operating system he can rely on and trust: * Most stable Linux 2.4 kernel * Complete Desktop environment * Administrative Management Tools * Complete Office Suite * Peer-To-Peer Tools * Secure Multi User Environment * Enhanced Device Capabilities * SMB (Windows) File sharing * Mozilla Web Browser * Firefox Web Browser * Wine - Windows API implementation (Runs Windows and DOS programs) * Xine MultiMedia Center * DVD / CD Burning Tools * Various P2P Tools (aMule, Fasttrack, gNutella (Kazaa)) * OpenOffice Suite * Various Sound Players for MP3, VOG etc. * Desklets Enhancements * Various Chat, Speech and Video Conferencing * Various Graphic Manipulation Tools * Games -- "Engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance." Dr A R Dykes.

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python can't find distutils
by Glenn Ramsey 13 Oct '04

13 Oct '04

Hi, I'm having some trouble trying to install a python app, driconf, on a mandrake 10 system: # python setup.py install 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback Traceback (most recent call last): File "setup.py", line 1, in ? from distutils.core import setup ImportError: No module named distutils.core Python and distutils appear to be installed: # rpm -q python python-2.3.3-2mdk # ls /usr/lib/python2.3/distutils/ archive_util.py debug.pyo fancy_getopt.pyo spawn.pyc ... I have looked on Google but found that other instances of this problem happen on Debian systems when the python-dev package, which contains distutils, isn't installed. On Mandrake however I think the distutils is part of the main python package. I haven't changed any of the relevant configuration so it should be whatever the package set it up as. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to make it work? Thanks g -- Glenn Ramsey <glenn(a)componic.co.nz> 07 8627077 http://www.componic.co.nz

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Fwd: Re: [wlug] NewbieNetworkNiggles
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 10 Oct '04

10 Oct '04

----- Message Forwarded on Mon 11/10/2004 ----- From: "" <jaytee(a)clear.net.nz> To: Daniel Lawson <daniel(a)meta.net.nz> Subject: Re: [wlug] NewbieNetworkNiggles Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 00:46:19 +1300 Hi For some reason it is not possible to boot from the C/D it says "loading the Kernel" then locks solid at 30% loaded claiming there has been a boot error or a I/O error. I am able to use the C/D to start in a failsafe mode and can log on as root but it is text only that is login.... password..... Then a black screen with white txt Maybe it would be worth while trying. Are you able to give me some instructions to try please? Regards John > > DCOP is part of the KDE infrastructure if I recall > correctly. Can you log in to a console as root? You > could delete and re-add your user, which would save a > reinstall. > > > If you boot off the install CD again, you can just install > over the top of your existing linux install (As long as > you are installing the same version you installed > beforehand). > > Daniel >

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Re: [wlug] NewbieNetworkNiggles
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 10 Oct '04

10 Oct '04

Hi Again. I think I am going to miss out on my break and the chocolate fish, I just totally broke itchy :-( Must be pretty serious as I cannot start KDE. It appears that some durned fool has been messing around with my network settings destroying my home directory and a thing called Dcon (Dcop?) in the process. Does any one have a rm commannd that will remove linux entirely and leave windows intact? I wish to reinstall the programme and start the exercise again with virgin settings. Regards John..

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Re: [wlug] NewbieNetworkNiggles
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 09 Oct '04

09 Oct '04

Maybe I need to be a little clearer on my first objective which is to network two seperate machines. Network to me means that if I am at machine #1 I will be able to "see" and use a file eg jpeg, txt etc from machine #2 and vice versa Having read an article in NZ PC which showed it to be a simple task with minimal settings to alter I thought I would attempt it. This is what I know The cable is a crossover cable and a light shines at each computer at the point of entry, this inicates to me that there is at least a hard connection between the machines. After swithing off the firewalls I used a gui called network services/hostnames to configure the address's The host? names are #1 itchy ip address 192.168.0.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 #2 scratchy ip 192.168.0.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 Then I used a gui called network devices/network card to turn off dchp and recheck the host configurations. The machines now use there respective names so john(a)itchy is my user name for one and john(a)scratchy for the other. Root comes back as itchy:/home/john ping is giving ping scratchy ping: unknown host scratchy ping 192.168.0.2 PING 192.168.0.2 (192.168.02) 56(84)bytes of data. >From 192.168.0.1: icm_seq=2 Destination host unreachable Change machines. ping itchy unknown host itchy ping 192.168.0.1 connect: network is unreachable The reason I was twittering on about work group is that after all the changes, I went back to the desk top and tried to open my "network" from one of the icons. It returned the "cannot find a workgroup" and I did not find a "put_the_workgroup_here" any where I looked Hope this is a little easier to follow. Do you think that I should kill that Wiki entry as it does look pretty awful in the daylight. <ping>Bruce I am in Wanganui but will be back before the next wlug meet. Regards John

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RE: [wlug] WLUG Members - Input Required
by David Nicholls 09 Oct '04

09 Oct '04

1. funding/rig etc... Well, for a rig or something of this nature how about getting some sponsorship for it? Dse might be a good place to start. Also if you are looking at other ideas, how about trying for funding for CDs with the LDP/tutorials/talks the lug has given, funding for a linux/wlug "road show" to businesses, and other groups mentioned in the charter? 2. newbie stuff... Definitely a must. Mayberetool the lecture series that gets put on up here up at the uni. Three things I think are really important are: - installation (still... even if it is getting easier), especially as some people set up home networks and want to connect - configuration - troubleshooting Oh and maybe add a fourth... - help resources. how and where to get them Oh hey what about having the equivalent of "support group meetings"? I think its DunLUG who meet in a café or something like that... We could organise similar nights for newbie groups to meet with more experienced users maybe and let some of that knowledge rub off maybe or something similar? I don't know. Perhaps that sounds silly. Cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Greig McGill [mailto:greig(a)hamiltron.net] Sent: Wednesday, 22 September 2004 10:32 pm Subject: [wlug] WLUG Members - Input Required 1. WLUG Funding Last year, the committee attempted to raise funds for the purchase of a mobile test rig/demo lab consisting of a server, a workstation, and several peripherals for use in presentations, training, and perhaps community education. We were declined on all three attempts, but will be trying again this year. What we need to know is: Is this a good goal for funding? Do you have a better idea? Is there a service you would like to see the WLUG provide that is currently unrealistic due to funding restrictions? Keep in mind that funding must be applied for with a specific project in mind, as funding cannot be used to meet ongoing running costs, or allow for events that may not happen. 2. New and Inexperienced Users As mentioned at the AGM, the WLUG has been accused of being unsupportive of new or inexperienced users. It was explained that the *active* members of the WLUG, ie. the ones who do all the work, are experienced users, and are thus unlikely to arrange meetings on beginner topics, or arrange installfests, which they have little desire to attend. We don't wish to alienate the new or inexperienced users however, but we need some of them to step up, and volunteer to present some beginner topics, arrange workshops, and perhaps start a "beginner stream". You will have the full backing, and support of the "old hands" - just tell us what you need. I repeat TELL US WHAT YOU NEED! Nothing is more demoralising than being complained at for not providing something which no one has ever told us they wanted. We do have something scheduled for the new people. October's meeting will be dedicated to using the WLUG resources - the Wiki, mailing list, effective use of Google, etc. It will also feature a live "fixup workshop". This will consist of people bringing their "broken" setups, and we will pick a few, and solve them, live, on the projector. This will not only get the problem fixed, but will show the troubleshooting process, and hopefully demystify the black-magic aspect of what the 'gurus' of the group do. Details will follow. Suggestions are welcome and encouraged. Regards, Greig McGill ElPresidente :)

3 2

KMail: Access from Windows
by Felix 06 Oct '04

06 Oct '04

I am using KMail as my mail client, however, I have to use Windows for one program and have access to the e-mail messages at the same time. I haven't been able to find a program who can do this. Do you know of one? Would it work if I'd use Thunderbird? Of course then there is the problem that the KMail files are on a Reiser partition, but that could probably be solved by moving the files and using a simlink. Thanks Felix

2 3

RE: [wlug] MacOS X....
by Matthew Browne (DSL HN) 06 Oct '04

06 Oct '04

> From: Oliver Jones [mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz] > > Not overly impressed with Safari though (aka KHTML + Apple > UI). Apple should have used Gecko for their HTML component. > Firefox and Safari share many UI similarities. I think I'd rather they had used Gecko too, but Firefox wasn't anywhere near what it is like to day back when they started working on Safari. I think feature similarity is because both camps have been regularly taking ideas from each other.

8 23

GNOME 2.8
by Daniel Lawson 05 Oct '04

05 Oct '04

I'm sure a lot of you have already used GNOME 2.8. Many of the Ubuntu reviewers and commenters will be in part commenting on GNOME 2.8, rather than anything specifically Ubuntu. I've just upgraded my Gentoo workstation at home to use GNOME 2.8, and I thought I'd share the experience, and make some comments on it. First of all, I've been running GNOME 2.6 since it came out, but I admit I didn't delve too deeply into some aspects of it. So if I mention something here that was in GNOME 2.6, please forgive me! I'm currently sitting at a Windows XP laptop, using my workstation via VNC. This was one of the features that prompted me to upgrade to 2.8 before the Gentoo GNOME team declared it stable. GNOME 2.8 has an integrated VNC client - accessable via the menu at Application -> Desktop Preferences -> Remote Desktop. The quality of a VNC session depends entirely upon the implementation of the viewer, and I found TightVNC to be lacking. RealVNC seems much better. Neither seem particular better than running an XServer on my laptop and using XDMCP, however that doesn't let me connect to an existing session. Despite being a little bit slow, and some key events not registering properly, this is pretty good. First score to GNOME 2.8. Also, my laptop has a lower screen resolution than my desktop. Scrolling round through the VNC window was tedious, so I used the screen resizer tool (Gnome 2.4 bought this in, I think) which will actually resize your desktop properly, instead of changing the viewport size. Amazing! Wonderful! About time! I'm writing this email in Evolution 2.0.1. I think, at this point, that I like it more than I liked Evolution previously. Its layout is cleaner; it just feels nicer. It still behaves really badly if you have large IMAP mailspools on servers at the other end of a bad link, but that's the way Evolution handles IMAP (thunderbird / mozilla are a lot less network-intensive than evolution). One of the first things everyone mentions about GNOME 2.8 is the trashcan integrated into your panel. I assume because I upgraded from GNOME 2.6, leaving my config files intact, this didn't get added for me. However, I can't seem to work out how to add this trashcan applet to my panel. Perhaps I don't have it installed, maybe the Gentoo GNOME team haven't packaged that part of it yet (it was masked for a reason after all!). Not really a point against GNOME per se. Nautilus has improved since I last bothered to look at it. Local filesystem browsing is nice, and the 'Computer' menu gives you options to mount devices flagged with 'user' in /etc/fstab - typically any cdrom drives, or in my case, my USB2 harddisk enclosure. Network filesystem browsing is nice too. I get the feeling this is all GNOME 2.6 stuff here however :) Under the 'System Tools' menu there are some good Control Panel-type applications. The 'Users and Groups' tool lets you mangle your user databases quite nicely. It only seems to understand local files (/etc/passwd, /etc/groups etc), I couldn't make it speak to my LDAP server at all. Also, I think it provides a good balance between being "User Friendly" and actually allowing experienced users to do what they want. There is a similar tool for controlling which services are run at boot, and starting/stopping services. The other tool I looked at quickly was a network configuration tool, which had options for setting up wired, wireless, dialup, parallel cable and IR network connections. You can control network profiles from here as well (so when you boot your laptop off the LAN, you can tell it to not bother DHCPing for your wired interface). All of these tools are run through a sudo-like tool, so prompt for your root password, as expected. Personally, I probably won't use them - they are for things performed very infrequently, and I'm happy enough doing them on the command line. However, I think it's a great step towards "general acceptance". I think I'd feel a lot happier now about putting my folks in front of a GNOME desktop. As far as the actual upgrade experience went (gentoo specific), I am using the "unstable" branch of Gentoo 2004.2 (~x86), and I had to unmask a whole heap of packages by adding lines to /etc/portage/package.unmask. (non-gentoo-specific) I had read in several forums that people were having profile issues when upgrading, and many recommended deleting all of the various GNOME configuration directories. I didn't do this - perhaps if I had, I'd have my trashcan on my panel!. It seemed painless enough however. Evolution bitched a bit about upgrading its profile, although I'm not sure why it was upgrading a profile that didn't exist. Daniel

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RE: [wlug] MacOS X....
by Matthew Browne (DSL HN) 05 Oct '04

05 Oct '04

> From: Oliver Jones [mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz] > > Yes there is that. Safari is integrated into the whole OS > (much like IE). I ponder how well FireFox could "plug in" to > MacOS. One thing I noticed is that Safari doesn't block popups. I think the version of Safari with 10.3 and later does block popups although I admit, I don't tend to use it, I'm more of a Mozilla person myself. As to Safari being "integrated into the whole OS", I don't think that's really true. KHTML is part of the OS and is used by various things such as the help viewer, but Safari is just another app which utilises KHTML. If you set another browser to be the default and delete the Safari application everything should run fine. > From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] > > I download from the apple OSX site the apple X11 package It also comes on the install CD/DVD since 10.3 as an optional install.

2 1

Library books
by Craig Box 04 Oct '04

04 Oct '04

Hi everyone, For the "launch" of the "new look WLUG library", could any outstanding books please be returned - I think Gun has one, and a couple of meetings ago someone else took one too. Email me off-list for details on how to return them. Even if you have a book and can't get it back straight away, please email so we can get it in the system correctly. Craig

1 0

RE: [wlug] MacOS X....
by Matthew Browne (DSL HN) 03 Oct '04

03 Oct '04

> From: Martin Bähr [mailto:mbaehr(a)email.archlab.tuwien.ac.at] > > On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 07:36:52PM +1200, Oliver Jones wrote: > > Received an iBook for my mother today. MacOS X is quite > sweet. Lots > > of eye candy. The benefits of an OpenGL powered UI. > > uh? the ui does not use opengl. (if it were, you'd be able to > do things like the java looking glass desktop, like turning > windows sideways) Uh, yes it does use OpenGL. For quite a long time now too. http://www.apple.com.au/macosx/10.2/quartzextreme.html

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MacOS X....
by Oliver Jones 03 Oct '04

03 Oct '04

Received an iBook for my mother today. MacOS X is quite sweet. Lots of eye candy. The benefits of an OpenGL powered UI. Even groovier of course is the fact the it is BSD under the hood. A fact made perfectly clear once you launch a terminal or look at the process list. I would certainly be very tempted to get a Mac if I couldn't find a decent laptop to run Linux well. My business partner is trying to run FC2 on a Dell D800 and having "issues". I want a Laptop but don't want "issues". And I most certainly do _not_ want a Windows laptop. An Apple at least would be a Unix box. I could run lots of Unix apps.. The Gnome guys could do worse than copying Apple when it comes to user experience. Not overly impressed with Safari though (aka KHTML + Apple UI). Apple should have used Gecko for their HTML component. Firefox and Safari share many UI similarities. More thoughts as they come to me.... Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

5 5

ESAT? WiFi etc..
by Oliver Jones 01 Oct '04

01 Oct '04

One side effect of getting the Mac today was that it has Wireless Ethernet. Enabling it in the office made me aware of a couple of nearby WiFi AP's. Might have to do some war driving in Taupo... :) One in particular that I noticed was an AP called ESAT_Test. It was a public AP that is setup in some sort of Mesh network. From the homepage I got redirected to when I tried to access Google it looked like some sort of dedicated public AP device. Anyone know anything about this? Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

1 0

Logwatch on RH9
by Oliver Jones 01 Oct '04

01 Oct '04

A couple of the RedHat 9 boxen I have continuously produce this in their logwatch results: Malformed UTF-8 character (unexpected continuation byte 0xae, with no preceding start byte) in pattern match (m//) at /etc/log.d/scripts/services/kernel line 112, <STDIN> line 123. Malformed UTF-8 character (unexpected continuation byte 0xae, with no preceding start byte) in pattern match (m//) at /etc/log.d/scripts/services/kernel line 112, <STDIN> line 123. If I remember rightly there was a bug in Perl's UTF-8 handling that produced this sort of thing. How do I get RH9, Logwatch & Perl to play nice? Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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Acceptable use of the WLUG Mailing List
by Meeting Reminder bot 30 Sep '04

30 Sep '04

The WLUG mailing list is the discussion-list extension of the Waikato Linux Users Group. As such, we expect members of this list to adhere to the principals espoused in our official Charter[1], in particular, Rule 6, which covers the activities on this mailing list. While this is an Acceptable Use Policy, the WLUG committee do recognise the need for informal discussion among list members, and draconian administration is not the goal of this policy. Please keep in mind, however, that your comments to this list do represent the WLUG, and while it is good to be seen as an organisation with a sense of humour, some comments may do serious harm to our credibility as a serious advocate of GNU/Linux and all things Free Software/Open Source related. List discussion; * Should not commit slander or libel against any person or * organisation * Should not be unprofessional or petty, especially with respect to * the names of other software companies * Should not indulge in ad hominem attacks * Should not reproduce copyrighted material without permission from * the copyright holder * Should not indulge in marketing or advertising, other than on a * private sale basis, or advertising of jobs - which may be * announced once only. * Should maintain a reasonable level of spelling and grammar * Should be honest * Should not promote or denigrate political, cultural, or religious * views * Should not continue inflammatory or abusive threads * Should accentuate the positive, without hyperbole or blatant * misrepresentation Posters who consistently violate these guidelines will be dealt with at the discretion of the List Maintainer. If you feel you have been unfairly dealt with, you have recourse to any member of the WLUG Committee[2]. [1] http://www.wlug.org.nz/WlugCharter [2] http://www.wlug.org.nz/WlugCommittee

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3c tablet pc and linux
by Stephen Pearce 27 Sep '04

27 Sep '04

I found this on the internet recently ... it is $1290US plus postage ... it uses a transmeta 5800 processor and has a built in 3 Meg pix camera .. .. has anyone any knowledge of its ability to run linux? (as advertised it is running some windows version). google 3c and tablet and pc to track down the page) Stephen

2 1

Cisco ATA-186
by Aaron Martin 25 Sep '04

25 Sep '04

Does anyone have a Cisco ATA-186 (or ATA-188) that I can get off them today, I urgently need one for a job I am doing tommorrow. I will replace it with a brand new one as soon as the one I have ordered arrives (should be tuesday).

2 2

WLUG Meeting is on monday
by Meeting Reminder bot 24 Sep '04

24 Sep '04

The WLUG meeting is on monday ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A WLUG meeting was booked for this date, but has been moved to the 23rd due to a guest speaker. See [MeetingTopics.2004-09-23] Location will be at Waikato University in LitB

3 2

procmail bounce matching
by Jamie Curtis 23 Sep '04

23 Sep '04

Hi, I have recently started having lots problems with people spamming with the from address of my domain and the domain catchall getting ~2 - 5k bounces arriving in my mailbox each day. I really don't want to remove the catchall, just get rid of all the random bounces. All my incomming mail is filtered through procmail and I want a good procmail recipe to match on bounces and chuck them away. Unfortunatly I don't seem to be able to find any reliable way to match a message as being a bounce without just lots of from filters detecting the common from styles of the different SMTP servers out there. Any suggestions ? Cheers, Jamie

4 3

September meeting - Novell and Linux - THIS THURSDAY
by John R. McPherson 23 Sep '04

23 Sep '04

The Waikato Linux Users Group monthly meeting for September is entitled "Novell and Linux". Our guest speaker is Paul Kangro from Novell. All are welcome to attend. Refreshments provided. Novell are famous for their NetWare operating system, and more recently for their purchases of the SuSe Linux distribution and Ximian (a company working on Linux desktop software such as GNOME and the Evolution groupware client). They are now the most active contributor to the GNOME project, the KDE project, Mono, and Evolution, as well as the #2 contributor to the Mozilla project and OpenOffice.org. Paul is Novell's Solutions Manager for Australia and New Zealand. He has previously worked for IBM, Cable & Wireless Optus, and Nortel Networks. 7pm, Thursday 23rd September Room: LitB.G.02 (down the hill from R block, off Hillcrest Rd) or park in the big carpark at Gate 1 off Knighton Rd and walk up the hill past the ITS building http://www.waikato.ac.nz/perl-bin/map/tt-map.pl?term=litb University of Waikato http://www.wlug.org.nz/MeetingTopics.2004-09-23

10 14

Mandrake PPC
by David Nicholls 23 Sep '04

23 Sep '04

Hey gavin... You have any trouble getting this to install/run? -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] Sent: Thursday, 23 September 2004 11:55 am Subject: Re: [wlug] WLUG Members - Input Required My distros: Mandrake PPC

2 1

Lost members
by Craig Box 22 Sep '04

22 Sep '04

Hi, If Shane Taylor and Paul Jonassen are on this list, can they please email me. (Or if anyone has a current email address for them, can they let me know off list.) Thanks, Craig

1 0

RE: [wlug] WLUG Members - Input Required
by David Nicholls 22 Sep '04

22 Sep '04

My apologies for that all went to reply and add some scintillating comments and damn well hit send instead... Nappy brain strikes again <sigh> Cheers... david

1 0

RE: [wlug] WLUG Members - Input Required
by David Nicholls 22 Sep '04

22 Sep '04

-----Original Message----- From: Greig McGill [mailto:greig(a)hamiltron.net] Sent: Wednesday, 22 September 2004 10:32 pm To: Waikato Linux Users Group Subject: [wlug] WLUG Members - Input Required Greetings all. Several matters have arisen at tonight's committee meeting which require some input from the WLUG in general. PLEASE read this email, and offer your input - preferably offlist, but onlist if you'd like feedback from other WLUG members. 1. WLUG Funding Last year, the committee attempted to raise funds for the purchase of a mobile test rig/demo lab consisting of a server, a workstation, and several peripherals for use in presentations, training, and perhaps community education. We were declined on all three attempts, but will be trying again this year. What we need to know is: Is this a good goal for funding? Do you have a better idea? Is there a service you would like to see the WLUG provide that is currently unrealistic due to funding restrictions? Keep in mind that funding must be applied for with a specific project in mind, as funding cannot be used to meet ongoing running costs, or allow for events that may not happen. 2. New and Inexperienced Users As mentioned at the AGM, the WLUG has been accused of being unsupportive of new or inexperienced users. It was explained that the *active* members of the WLUG, ie. the ones who do all the work, are experienced users, and are thus unlikely to arrange meetings on beginner topics, or arrange installfests, which they have little desire to attend. We don't wish to alienate the new or inexperienced users however, but we need some of them to step up, and volunteer to present some beginner topics, arrange workshops, and perhaps start a "beginner stream". You will have the full backing, and support of the "old hands" - just tell us what you need. I repeat TELL US WHAT YOU NEED! Nothing is more demoralising than being complained at for not providing something which no one has ever told us they wanted. We do have something scheduled for the new people. October's meeting will be dedicated to using the WLUG resources - the Wiki, mailing list, effective use of Google, etc. It will also feature a live "fixup workshop". This will consist of people bringing their "broken" setups, and we will pick a few, and solve them, live, on the projector. This will not only get the problem fixed, but will show the troubleshooting process, and hopefully demystify the black-magic aspect of what the 'gurus' of the group do. Details will follow. Suggestions are welcome and encouraged. Regards, Greig McGill ElPresidente :) _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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WLUG Meeting is tonight
by Meeting Reminder bot 22 Sep '04

22 Sep '04

The WLUG meeting is this evening ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Kangro from Novell will speak. All are welcome to attend. 7pm, 23rd Sept University of Waikato Park in Gate 1, Knighton Rd Room: LitB.G.02 http://www.waikato.ac.nz/perl-bin/map/tt-map.pl?term=litb http://www.waikato.ac.nz/contacts/map.pdf

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Re: [wlug] Wireless up and running Yipeeeeeeeeee
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 21 Sep '04

21 Sep '04

Good on you Bill.. ----- Original Message Follows ----- > I finally have most of the Ad-Hoc Wireless link > working. Only missing Internet connection. > > Info @ http://www.wlug.org.nz/AdHoc > > Bill > > Learning is fun (most of the time LOL) > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection > around http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Committee meeting this Wednesday
by Craig Box 21 Sep '04

21 Sep '04

Hi everyone, The Fist has announced the first meeting of its new committee, this Wednesday. There's a draft agenda up at http://www.wlug.org.nz/CommitteeMeetingTopics.2004-09-22 - if anyone wants anything put on the agenda for this meeting, can they please email me. Remember, if we don't know about it, we can't fix it. Regards, Craig

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FW: Seminar Invitation : Novell & Linux Means Business
by Gund Wehsling 17 Sep '04

17 Sep '04

Hi Corporate event in Auckland next month. I am waiting to see if I can go, if so, there will be room in my car, details closer to the time. This is important because it is going to show what the corporate people are seeing when they are introduced or demonstrated LINUX. Gund _____ From: Novell [mailto:jturbill(a)novell.com] Sent: Friday, 17 September 2004 1:42 p.m. To: Gund Wehsling Subject: Seminar Invitation : Novell & Linux Means Business <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> N<http://www.novell.com/email/img/n_logo_small.gif> <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/images/novell/banner.jpg> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> Novell and Linux means business If you only attend one IT event this year, this is the one. There has been a lot of talk about Open Source and Linux and you would be forgiven if you thought it was just that - talk. Up until now no one company could provide an end-to-end managed Linux solution. Novell offers a complete range of enterprise Linux solutions, from server to desktop. You can now implement Linux and have all the infrastructure management tools and support you need. So Linux has just got better. Progressive IT professionals in all kinds of businesses are formulating a Linux strategy. And why wouldn't you? You get greater control, freedom of choice, no vendor lock-ins and lower IT infrastructure costs. It's logical. You will hear about: * Where Open Source is heading and the directions emerging from the Open Source community. * The latest trends and growth projections for Open Source. * Why Linux is now a viable choice as a core enterprise computing platform. * Who in the corporate world is already using Linux and what have been their experiences. * The views of major vendors and their Linux strategy roadmap. * How to make Linux the core platform in your IT environment and migration considerations. You will see demonstrations of: * Linux for the desktop * Linux server * Developing applications for Linux using Mono and .Net You will get FREE evaluation software: By registering for this event you will receive a complete set of Linux evaluation software for FREE! Don't miss the bus - reserve your seat TODAY! <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> Win a palmOne Treo(tm) 600: <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/images/novell/treo.jpg> Register before September 20 and you could win a palmOne Treo(tm) 600 colour smartphone* Get more information <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECeS.cfm?e=1ms-10-20f-27b73j> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> When and Where: <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> October 11 : Canberra 9:00am - 3:30pm National Museum Lawson Crescent Acton Peninsula, Canberra Book for this event <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECeS.cfm?e=1mr-10-20f-27b73e> October 12 : Melbourne 9:00am - 3:30pm Sheraton Towers One Southgate Avenue Southbank, Melbourne Book for this event <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECeS.cfm?e=1mw-10-20f-27b73t> October 13 : Sydney 9:00am - 3:30pm Swissotel Sydney 68 Market Street, Sydney Book for this event <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECeS.cfm?e=1mv-10-20f-27b73t> October 15 : Auckland 9:00am - 3:30pm Hilton Auckland Princes Wharf 147 Quay Street, Auckland Book for this event <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECeS.cfm?e=1mq-10-20f-27b73g> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/email/img/novell_logo_wh.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> <http://www.novell.com/img/spacer.gif> *Conditions apply - see terms and conditions <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECeS.cfm?e=1ms-10-20f-27b73j> . NSW Permit No TPL 04/08874. ACT Permit TP 04/3501 Novell values the privacy of our customers and partners. We only collect personal information provided by you that is necessary to perform our function and activities. We do not share your personal details with third parties without your consent. Information on our Privacy Policy can be found at www.novell.com/company/policies/privacy <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECeS.cfm?e=1mt-10-20f-27b73d> . If you no longer wish to receive electronic communications from Novell, please unsubscribe <http://www.rippledirect.com.au/ECUnsub.cfm?E=039d620f-2c-10&B=2ia> . We ensure that we only send you electronic messages that you agree to receive. 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FW: Firefox Presentation to Waikato Linux Users Group
by Craig Box 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

Craig Box wrote: > Hi Ben, > > Should have asked this earlier, but you wouldn't consider coming down > to Hamilton and presenting a talk about your involvement with Firefox > & the Mozilla Foundation to the Waikato Linux Users Group sometime, > would you? > > Probably a bit too late to do so for your current trip, but I assume > you're back every now and then? > > Let me know if it's the sort of thing you'd consider and if so, we'll > see what can be done! Hi Craig, Sorry for the delayed response I've been very busy these past few weeks. I'm fully booked for the next week so I won't be able to make it to Hamilton but I'll let you know I am speaking on Firefox at the University of Auckland (School of Engineering - 20 Symonds St - Room 3.402) on Monday 9/20 at high noon. Members of your group are welcome to attend. Regards, -- Ben Goodger <ben(a)mozilla.org> Lead Engineer, Mozilla Firefox +1 (650) 492 0729 The Mozilla Foundation 1350C Villa St Mountain View CA 94041

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Re: [wlug] Wireless TCP/IP
by Bill Rosoman 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

> You do have an Access point, right? No I am trying to do Ad-Hoc using 2 Wireless cards. Almost there! Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [wlug] Wireless TCP/IP
by Bill Rosoman 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

> It sounds like you're nearly there and your commands > look mostly > correct. A few suggestions and example commands <snip> Ok I tried the suggestions; I have setup the Windows machine on deb1 and chanel 6 that part is fine. Linux commands ifdown eth1 iwconfig eth1 mode Ad-Hoc essid "deb1" channel 6 ifconfig eth1 192.168.0.5 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.0.255 link established ping 192.168.0.1 PING 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. >From 192.168.0.5 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable >From 192.168.0.5 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable iwconfig eth1 eth1 IEEE 802.11b/g ESSID:"deb1" Nickname:"mordor" Mode:Ad-Hoc Channel:6 Cell: 9E:05:A8:9E:54:CF Bit Rate:11Mb/s Tx-Power=31 dBm Sensitivity=20/200 Retry min limit:8 RTS thr:2347 B Fragment thr:2346 B Encryption key:off Link Quality:196/0 Signal level:-55 dBm Noise level:-245 dBm Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 route -n Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 10.0.0.3 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 UH 1 0 0 sl0 192.168.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth1 127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 U 1 0 0 sl0 ifconfig eth1 eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:09:5B:C2:C7:1A inet addr:192.168.0.5 Bcast:192.168.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:48 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:5316 (5.1 Kb) Interrupt:10 Also Ethereal is looking for 192.168.0.1 using UDP and ARP If I remove WLAN and insert LAN I get ping 192.168.0.1 PING 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.549 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.328 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.322 ms So this is a big step in the right direction! Just the last step to go! Thanks Bill _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com

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Ubuntu 4.10 preview released
by Craig Box 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

Ubuntu is a new Linux distribution that brings together the breadth of Debian with a focused selection of packages, regular releases (every six months) and a commitment to security updates with 18 months of support for every release. (/me touches himself) http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/ http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/preview/ (incl. torrents) I've got the i386 iso on the way, should have it in an hour or so, will let people know how it goes. I will also arrange for some finished Ubuntu CDs to be shipped to the WLUG for distribution. Craig

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RE: [wlug] Ubuntu 4.10 preview released
by Gund Wehsling 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

Hi FYI - uBuntu translates to "humanity" or "the [collective] people" in Zulu. I had a smirk when I saw the distro being mentioned here this morning. Gund -----Original Message----- From: A. Pagaltzis [mailto:pagaltzis(a)gmx.de] Sent: Thursday, 16 September 2004 12:22 p.m. To: Waikato Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [wlug] Ubuntu 4.10 preview released * Oliver Jones <oliver(a)deeper.co.nz> [2004-09-16 01:40]: > I wish more distros compiled their apps as at least i586 > binaries. No one (or nearly no one) would attempt to use a > modern distro on a i386 anymore. Even 486 systems will be hard > to come by now. Slackware's packages are compiled for i486. Although I think it would be reasonable to compile the X-based stuff for i586 and better. Noone in their right mind is going to use a 486 as a desktop with GNOME. Regards, -- Aristotle "If you can't laugh at yourself, you don't take life seriously enough." _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Re: [wlug] Wireless TCP/IP
by Bill Rosoman 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

How can you "see" the AP? (ie, how are you trying to observe it) Have you given it an IP address in the same subnet as your network cards? Wireless Ad-Hoc PC to Notepad ----------------------------- Usng PC Windows ME Zyxel USB Wlan Dell Notepad; The wifi card's a Netgear WG511. www.netgear.com I have a Dell Notepad Inspiron 2650 Intel Chip running Mandrake 10 KDE 3.2 Kernel 2.6.3-7mdk To get wlan up ============== Setup Windows PC using manual IP 192.168.0.1 mask 255.255.255.0 wifi Ad-Hoc chanel 6 Run USB Wifi Linux as SU (root) kedit /etc/wlan/wlancfg-deb1 kedit /etc/modules.conf alias eth1 prism54 ifconfig eth1 inet 192.168.0.5 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.0.255 route add default gw 192.168.0.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 eth1 iwconfig eth1 ESSID "deb1" mode ad-hoc channel 6 /etc/pcmcia/network start eth1 Outcome ======= Have a strong connection between computers But cannot access computers or internet No IP address No Ping etc if I reboot using LAN everything OK (Samba, Internet) Results ------- Windows machine netstat shows nothing active ping 192.168.0.5 times out ping 192.168.0.1 excellent Linux machine apradar result eth1 Scan completed : NEW AP from accesspoint scan essid.length 4 ESSID:"deb1" Mode:Ad-Hoc 1 Encryption key:off Frequency:2.437GHz quality: -56 ping 192.168.0.1 PING 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. [1]+ Stopped ping 192.168.0.1 Hangs! iwlist eth1 scanning eth1 Scan completed : Cell 01 - Address: 42:F5:A8:9E:54:CF ESSID:"deb1" Mode:Ad-Hoc Encryption key:off Frequency:2.437GHz Quality:190/0 Signal level:-55 dBm Noise level:-245 dBm route Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 10.0.0.3 * 255.255.255.255 UH 1 0 0 sl0 127.0.0.0 * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo default * 0.0.0.0 U 1 0 0 sl0 Does not show eth1? iwspy eth1 eth1 Statistics collected: 00:00:00:00:28:C2 : Quality:0 Signal level:0 Noise level:0 Link/Cell/AP : Quality:188/0 Signal level:-53 dBm Noise level:-5 dBm (updated) Typical/Reference : Quality:0/0 Signal level:-80 dBm Noise level:-256 dBm iwconfig lo no wireless extensions. eth0 no wireless extensions. eth1 IEEE 802.11b/g ESSID:"deb1" Nickname:"mordor" Mode:Ad-Hoc Channel:6 Cell: 42:F5:A8:9E:54:CF Bit Rate:11Mb/s Tx-Power=31 dBm Sensitivity=20/200 Retry min limit:8 RTS thr:2347 B Fragment thr:2346 B Encryption key:off Link Quality:177/0 Signal level:-53 dBm Noise level:-32 dBm Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 sl0 ESSID:off/any Nickname:"" NWID:8 Channel:80 Access Point: FF:BF:21:00:00:00 Bit Rate=-1.07375e+06kb/s Tx-Power=-1073746380 dBm Sensitivity=8/0 Retry:on RTS thr=-1073746380 B Fragment thr=-1073746380 B Encryption key:0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000-0000 Power Management:on NB sl0 is my Modem cat /proc/net/dev Inter-| Receive | Transmit face |bytes packets errs drop fifo frame compressed multicast|bytes packets errs drop fifo colls carrier compressed lo: 24920 364 0 0 0 0 0 0 24920 364 0 0 0 0 0 0 eth0: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 eth1: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4082 31 0 0 0 0 0 0 sl0: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9990 121 0 0 0 0 0 0 Ethereal Sending ARP packets to 127.255.255.255 So now I have a couple of issues. TIA Bill _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com

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Unsubscribed email addresses
by Craig Box 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

Two messages today (Phil and Bill) from email addresses that are not subscribed to the list, were dropped. Please check when you are posting to the list that you are posting from the address you receive mail to! If you need to, you can subscribe multiple addresses and only receive mail to one. Craig

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Re: [wlug] I am stuck at the command line.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

My computer said it thinks it needs some firmware and suggested a site. I am downloading this then will try to install. I found out off list that pointing and click works well, is this the road to which you were re-fering Craig? Also suggested (another point and click) is to use microsoft NDIS wrapper for wlan and kernel. Regards John PS Matt your emails are still coming to me as an off list item. I have no idea why. > > > > There are often many tricky ways to make hardware work > > on Linux, or one easy "just go down the road that makes > > it work" option. > > > > Craig

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RE: iHug / Wired Country
by Gerwin van de Steeg 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

Hmm, Ihug/Wired Country wireless We've had this now for about 2+ years now, and has been working fine. Upto the last couple of months that is, starting at about the time the VoIP presentation was held at our premises. The link quality has been reduced, I've been asked to switch to a different network and back (different static ip's) whilst the gear was replaced. We've had some of the radio gear in Church Rd, Ngaruawahia, and on the Hospital die, all in the past month. One of the occasions when a radio unit had been replaced, we noticed that the unit only had a maximum arp table of 7 entries which took 3 hours to get fixed. Whilst the connections were organized by Go!Live, we had an afterhours contact phone number (the guy still works there but I'm not obliged to give people his cellphone number, and he hates being called when he's holding an arial and standing on someone's roof). Since then, the afterhours and weekend support have gone down the drain. We're now getting frequent outages ranging from a couple of minutes at 20+% packet loss, to 16+ hours of 100% packet loss. Ping times are bouncing like a maniac instead of being in a reasonably steady range. We've resorted to using nagios to monitor our incoming link and report errors and warnings, which result in me receiving on avergae about 20-30 emails a day during weekdays with respect to packet loss on the link, or ping responses exceeding 500ms. When it is working however, on a good clear sunny day, our guaranteed 512k link can get speeds much greater than this (approx ~2mb is my best sofar). Now, all the problems started to occur when we shifted to the Te Rapa area of Hamilton, we had no problems in Hillcrest. GerwinVanDeSteeg

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Apache 1.3.27, PHP 4.1.2 & RHEL 2.1
by Oliver Jones 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

I've identified my problem with Apache crashing in response to HUP and USR1 signals. As suggested it appears to be PHP's fault. If I removed php from the equation the crashes go away. I've filed a bug with RedHat describing the problem. Hopefully they release an errata soon. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132488 Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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RE: [wlug] iHug / Wired Country
by David Nicholls 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Well ive been with satlan for about two years now, maybe about 3 outages total. When I ring them (almost anytime too) instant friendly response and they can usually tell me what they think the prob is too. Setup: This includes installing linux on a box for you (if you wish) as a router/web server/firewall/whatever/the aerial, first months rent, fixed ip addr (telecom don't give that usually from what I see), ... And as I said before for me service ranks way up there, and I will pay just for that. I don't know what their boundries are sadly. Id suggest ringing them. Cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Lawson [mailto:daniel(a)meta.net.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 14 September 2004 11:43 am Subject: Re: [wlug] iHug / Wired Country Joseph Gibbs wrote: >thats fine if one wants to pray $450 for setup... (according to their >website) And paying a lower setup is fine if you want to put up with connectivity and packet loss issues :) Daniel

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I am stuck at the command line.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

I am attempting to install a driver set for my usb wireless adapter. The instructions I have are: ********************************************************* *** SMC WLan USB Card 11Mbps *** *** Linux Device Driver *** ********************************************************* 1. Install driver a) untar the package using the command: ---> tar zxvf SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W.tar.gz b) cd SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W c) ./setup.sh 2. Support a) Support RedHat 7.1, Redhat 7.2, Redhat 7.3 b) linux-kernel 2.4.17, 2.4.18 3. Module Parameters| --------------------| |------ In order to reconfigure the USB card you have to use one of the applications which comes with the driver. fvnet(command line utility) or xvnet (a graphical interface for the X windows), or the wireless tools (not tested and not recommended). For help for the fvnet and xvnet applications use the corresponding man pages. (man xvnet or man fvnet). Some of my attempts to write a command are: john(a)linux:~> su Password: linux:/home/john # ---> tar zxvf SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W.tar.gz bash: ---: command not found linux:/home/john # / tar zxvf SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W.tar.gz bash: /: is a directory linux:/home/john # tar zxvf SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662.tar.gz tar: SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662.tar.gz: Cannot open: No such file or directory tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now tar: Child returned status 2 tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors linux:/home/john # The folder is called SMC2662WV2 Linux.tar.gz Clicking this folder gives SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W Which shows on the location bar: tar:/home/john/SMC2662WV2_Linux.tar.gz I THINK that I am only a keystroke or two from getting this :-( Regards John

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Re: [wlug] I am stuck at the command line.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Negative, We did try but time and the possibility that we needed drivers was against us. I am now trying to set up a SuSE distro. I am SO looking for that road that makes it work. in the meantime I will take the feel good points for actually typing a couple of commands (albeit list assisted) correctly. Regards John. ----- Original Message Follows ----- > > Cool, I got the thing to extract and setup. I thought I > > would be tricky and run "iwconfig" > > but it reports back no wireless devices. I guess I need > > to read up some more before proceeding further. At least > > I made some progress. > > Thanks for the help so far. Regards John > > Without wanting to sound unhelpful, we got this wireless > card working at the Installfest, did we not? > > There are often many tricky ways to make hardware work on > Linux, or one easy "just go down the road that makes it > work" option. > > Craig > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Re: [wlug] I am stuck at the command line.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Cool, I got the thing to extract and setup. I thought I would be tricky and run "iwconfig" but it reports back no wireless devices. I guess I need to read up some more before proceeding further. At least I made some progress. Thanks for the help so far. Regards John ----- Original Message Follows ----- > > On Tue, 2004-09-14 at 15:44, Matt Brown wrote: > > Hi John, > > > > I'll step through and point out what was wrong with each > > command. > > On Tue, 2004-09-14 at 15:24, jaytee(a)clear.net.nz wrote: > > > > > linux:/home/john # ---> tar zxvf > > > SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W.tar.gz > > > bash: ---: command not found > > .. > > > > linux:/home/john # / tar zxvf > > > SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W.tar.gz bash: /: is a directory > > > > I'm not quite sure where the / here comes from, it is > > what is causing the problem. > > > > > linux:/home/john # tar zxvf > > > SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662.tar.gz tar: > > > SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662.tar.gz: Cannot open: No such > file or directory > > > 6) If you can see the filename > > SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662.tar.gz in the output of the > previous command continue, otherwise go back to step 1 > > It looks like those filenames are subtly different. > SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662W.tar.gz versus > SMC_USB_WIRELESS_2662.tar.gz (without a "W" following the > 2662). Make sure you use the correct one for the "tar" > command, depending on what the file is actually called. > > John McPherson > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > [Attachment: jrm21(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz.sig]

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iHug / Wired Country
by Joseph Gibbs 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Hi, Looking at getting wireless internet and phone package from wired country, through ihug. Will probably get the 1 or 2mbit deal. Has anyone had any experiences with them? I checked the wlug pages, not much info about them though. I'm interested in the quality of service they provide, and any other experinces you could share for/against getting this service. thanks, Joseph.

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RE: [wlug] iHug / Wired Country
by Lindsay Druett 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Few Internet outages here and there is one thing, but phone outages is another thing. > Isn't all that crash hot? My flatmates and I have got 1Mbps to burn, > no packet loss and sub 30ms pings, for $65 per month. True, > there are > a few more outages, just means we do something else for a while. > > Wireless is fairly solid and it's getting better all the time. > > Cheers, > James. > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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RE: [wlug] iHug / Wired Country
by Lindsay Druett 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

I bet you can't do that at my place :) > > Isn't all that crash hot? My flatmates and I have got 1Mbps to burn, > no packet loss and sub 30ms pings, for $65 per month. True, > there are > a few more outages, just means we do something else for a while. > > Wireless is fairly solid and it's getting better all the time. > > Cheers, > James. > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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RE: [wlug] iHug / Wired Country
by Lindsay Druett 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

> > WC have there own licenced spectrum, this helps. > Using own licenced spectrum definitely helps, but how many customers can you cater for in one direction with one PoP ? > > Cell phones are fairly commonplace, I would imagine most > cellphone towers > have generators? My point being that there is more than one > way to kill > a cat. Yeah, but cellphone coverage is not really that great, it's okay, but more often than not, when I am on a cellphone, I end having to go outdoors for a better signal or at least move around. Batteries go flat at the wrong time, maybe I jinxed with cellphones.... However, not great in an emergency. The cellphone is a good idea to an extend, but there is a lot of "what ifs" in my view. I'm not trying to be the party pooper here, after all, I have been playing with this stuff, check out www.lindsay.wired.net.nz/projects/sip/ but when there is an essential service involved, I am in favour of using tried and proven methods. > > Telecom sux, give the competition a go. God knows the > government isn't > helping in this area. > Have a look at www.llu.wired.net.nz - I agree with what you're saying, I can see why iHUG is providing this service, but at the end of the day I am not going to direct customers, friends, or whatever down a technology path that isn't all that crash hot - it won't do anyone a favour, in fact it will make Telecom look really good. If wireless was going really solve the local access issue and do a just as good if not better job than a wired local loop system, then the local loop unbundling proposal would have never been considered, in fact Telecom would have ditched the wired local loop system and gone wireless themselves.

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RE: [wlug] iHug / Wired Country
by David Nicholls 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Try satlan. Hell im on the 128k plan and find it great. Bugger all outages and I can ring these guys almost any time of day. Sadly I don't believe they do a phone service but the customer service is bloody good. www.Satlan.co.nz Cheers... david -----Original Message----- Joseph Gibbs wrote: >Hi, >Looking at getting wireless internet and phone package from wired >country, through ihug. Will probably get the 1 or 2mbit deal. Has >anyone had any experiences with them? I checked the wlug pages, not >much info about them though. I'm interested in the quality of service >they provide, and any other experinces you could share for/against >getting this service.

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Waikato Linux Users Group Incorporated Committee for 2005
by Craig Box 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

Congratulations to the following people, who were tonight voted in as the Executive Committee for the WLUG for 2005: President: Greig McGill Vice-President: Perry Lorier Treasurer: Craig McKenna Secretary: Craig Box General Committee: Matt Brown Kyle Carter Jamie Curtis Gian Perrone John McPherson The minutes are now available at http://www.wlug.org.nz/MeetingTopics.2004-09-13. Thanks to everyone who came. Craig

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Weird SEGV with Apache.
by Oliver Jones 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

Howdy. I'm getting a weird problem with Apache on a RHEL2.1 box I have. It does on the _second_ HUP or USR1 signal it receives. So ever two days logrotate kills it. It seems to be dying when PHP reloads for the second time. Anyone have any useful ideas on how to track this problem down more precisely? End of strace log: fstat64(8, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=27598, ...}) = 0 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4046e000 read(8, "[PHP]\n\n;;;;;;;;;;;\n; WARNING ;\n;"..., 8192) = 8192 read(8, "time notices (these are warnings"..., 8192) = 8192 read(8, ".dll\n;extension=php_mysql.dll\nex"..., 8192) = 8192 read(8, " persistent links. -1 means no "..., 8192) = 3022 read(8, "", 4096) = 0 read(8, "", 8192) = 0 ioctl(8, SNDCTL_TMR_TIMEBASE or TCGETS, 0xbffe2e10) = -1 ENOTTY (Inappropriate ioctl for device) close(8) = 0 munmap(0x4046e000, 4096) = 0 open("/etc/protocols", O_RDONLY) = 8 fcntl64(8, F_GETFD) = 0 fcntl64(8, F_SETFD, FD_CLOEXEC) = 0 fstat64(8, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=5834, ...}) = 0 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4046e000 read(8, "# /etc/protocols:\n# $Id: protoco"..., 4096) = 4096 close(8) = 0 munmap(0x4046e000, 4096) = 0 open("/etc/protocols", O_RDONLY) = 8 fcntl64(8, F_GETFD) = 0 fcntl64(8, F_SETFD, FD_CLOEXEC) = 0 fstat64(8, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=5834, ...}) = 0 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4046e000 read(8, "# /etc/protocols:\n# $Id: protoco"..., 4096) = 4096 close(8) = 0 munmap(0x4046e000, 4096) = 0 geteuid32() = 0 getpid() = 8935 shmget(IPC_PRIVATE, 33554432, IPC_CREAT|0600) = 14516227 shmat(14516227, 0, 0) = 0x4292e000 shmctl(14516227, IPC_64|IPC_STAT, 0xbffe3a00) = 0 getuid32() = 0 getgid32() = 0 shmctl(14516227, IPC_64|IPC_SET, 0xbffe3a00) = 0 shmctl(14516227, IPC_64|IPC_RMID, 0) = 0 unlink("/tmp/session_mm_apache0.sem") = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) open("/tmp/session_mm_apache0.sem", O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_EXCL, 0600) = 8 fcntl64(8, F_SETFD, FD_CLOEXEC) = 0 getpid() = 8935 fcntl64(8, F_SETLKW, {type=F_WRLCK, whence=SEEK_SET, start=0, len=0}) = 0 fcntl64(8, F_SETLKW, {type=F_UNLCK, whence=SEEK_SET, start=0, len=0}) = 0 open("/usr/lib/php4/imap.so", O_RDONLY) = 9 read(9, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0\360\20"..., 1024) = 1024 fstat64(9, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=1453914, ...}) = 0 old_mmap(NULL, 771468, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 9, 0) = 0x4492e000 mprotect(0x449e7000, 13708, PROT_NONE) = 0 old_mmap(0x449e7000, 16384, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 9, 0xb8000) = 0x449e7000 close(9) = 0 open("/usr/kerberos/lib/libgssapi_krb5.so.2", O_RDONLY) = 9 read(9, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0000J\0\000"..., 1024) = 1024 fstat64(9, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=91717, ...}) = 0 old_mmap(NULL, 74532, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 9, 0) = 0x408fe000 mprotect(0x4090f000, 4900, PROT_NONE) = 0 old_mmap(0x4090f000, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 9, 0x10000) = 0x4090f000 close(9) = 0 open("/usr/kerberos/lib/libkrb5.so.3", O_RDONLY) = 9 read(9, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0\200\362"..., 1024) = 1024 fstat64(9, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=432826, ...}) = 0 old_mmap(NULL, 363904, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 9, 0) = 0x449eb000 mprotect(0x44a41000, 11648, PROT_NONE) = 0 old_mmap(0x44a41000, 12288, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 9, 0x55000) = 0x44a41000 close(9) = 0 open("/usr/kerberos/lib/libk5crypto.so.3", O_RDONLY) = 9 read(9, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0\360 \0"..., 1024) = 1024 fstat64(9, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=78765, ...}) = 0 old_mmap(NULL, 68148, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 9, 0) = 0x44a44000 mprotect(0x44a53000, 6708, PROT_NONE) = 0 old_mmap(0x44a53000, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 9, 0xe000) = 0x44a53000 close(9) = 0 open("/usr/kerberos/lib/libcom_err.so.3", O_RDONLY) = 9 read(9, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0P\t\0\000"..., 1024) = 1024 fstat64(9, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=8653, ...}) = 0 old_mmap(NULL, 8584, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 9, 0) = 0x406ad000 mprotect(0x406ae000, 4488, PROT_NONE) = 0 old_mmap(0x406ae000, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 9, 0) = 0x406ae000 close(9) = 0 stat64("/etc/cram-md5.pwd", 0xbffe39e0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/dev/urandom", {st_mode=S_IFCHR|0644, st_rdev=makedev(1, 9), ...}) = 0 open("/usr/share/ssl/openssl.cnf", O_RDONLY) = 9 fstat64(9, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=7338, ...}) = 0 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4046e000 read(9, "#\n# OpenSSL example configuratio"..., 4096) = 4096 read(9, "onName_default\t= World Wide Web "..., 4096) = 3242 read(9, "", 4096) = 0 close(9) = 0 munmap(0x4046e000, 4096) = 0 --- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0) --- chdir("/etc/httpd") = 0 rt_sigaction(SIGSEGV, {SIG_DFL}, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0 getpid() = 8935 kill(8935, SIGSEGV) = 0 sigreturn() = ? (mask now [RTMIN]) --- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0) --- -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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Daemon monitoring tools.
by Oliver Jones 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

Hi guys. Way back in the ancient mists of time I remember seeing some daemon monitoring app. I can't remember what it was called though. It basically was a tool that ensured that particular daemons on a host were always running. Ie, if they crashed or whatever the monitoring app ran the appropriate rc script to restart them. Anyone know what I'm talking about or a good app that does this? Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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RE: [wlug] New Workstation Hardware Advice
by David Nicholls 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

Hi gund, I must say I agree with oliver on this topic... The athlon cpu could well be the way to go. Most of the processors (to coin a phrase) "honk along" at VERY nice speeds. The physics dept at the waikato uni uses almost exclusively a64s. Hoever the 32 bit cpus are just as good and I believe they are going to be dual coreing them in the near future. There are some VERY nice mobos out for these boards... www.tomshardware.com is a good place to go for reviews of chips, boards and gfx cards... They not only test on win systems but a linux build as well so you get an idea of how much trouble they went to to get things working. Basically you need to have a look, have a think about the details of what you want in your system, then come back and ask us if its any good and we can tear it to shreds for you:) Just don't forget the floppy drive ;) Cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Gund Wehsling [mailto:Gund.Wehsling(a)computerland.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2004 11:56 am Subject: [wlug] New Workstation Hardware Advice Hi I am thinking about getting a new workstation for study/development. It will be a beast. Apart form the favourable reviews of NVidia graphics cards here, are there any preferences to motherboards? IDE RAID controllers? I have been living in laptop land for a while now and have lost contact with desktop options and hardware. Ideally, the desktop will have 3GHz Processor or thereabouts 4GB RAM 2x120GB hard drives (one for mirror / backup) DVD Writer The machine will primarily be used for VMs, so throughput would be nice and the RAM _needs_ to be big. Also, as I am a struggling NetWare engineer, a nice place that sells this and helps with finance would be a plus. Any thoughts in this direction, assume I am ignorant please. Many thanks Gund

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Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD
by Craig Box 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 22:02 +0000, Felix Hohener wrote: > Craig > > Just tried this, but I am not going anywhere. Is there any password involved > in the log on or just "user(a)jetstreamgames.co.nz" and nothing else? You need to specify a password I believe, but it can be anything. The username can also be anything as long as it ends with @jetstreamgames.co.nz You can then log in but only connect a range of selected IPs for games servers, including ftp.jetstreamgames.co.nz - make sure that whatever DNS server you're using is inside this list of IPs. You can use jetstreamgames's DNS server at 203.96.91.1 Craig

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ANNOUNCEMENT: Annual General Meeting, TONIGHT 7:00pm
by Craig Box 12 Sep '04

12 Sep '04

In accordance with Rule 6 of the charter, I would like to remind all members that the Waikato Linux Users Group (Incorporated) will be holding its Annual General Meeting *tonight* at 7pm, at the Crawshaw School Multi Purpose Room (the hall, where the Installfest was held, is unavailable, so we've moved to a replacement room. It will be signposted.) Doors will open about 6:45pm; please be prompt. Remember your $20 subscription fee. Craig

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WLUG Meeting is on monday
by Meeting Reminder bot 09 Sep '04

09 Sep '04

The WLUG meeting is on monday ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This meeting, on a different date to the regular September meeting, is the 2004 [Annual General Meeting|AGM] of the [Waikato Linux Users Group Incorporated|WlugIncorporated]. * Venue: CrawshawSchool Multi-Purpose Room * Time: 7pm (Doors open 6:45, please be prompt). * Remember: [your $20 2004-2005 membership fee|http://www.wlug.org.nz/JoinWlug] Agenda: # Apologies # [Minutes of the previous AGM|MeetingTopics.2003-09-22] (22 September 2003) # Matters arising # Chairman's report # Treasurer's report # [Election of Officers|WlugElections] # General Business Please note that nominations are now being taken through the WlugElections page.

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RE: [wlug] New Workstation Hardware Advice
by Gund Wehsling 09 Sep '04

09 Sep '04

I am only familiar with VMWare. But open to new ideas. So this is what I do: A customer wants wot make xyz work with abc in his specific environment. So I build the system in a VMWare session and prove it works before going out to the site and implimenting the change, a nice way to do things on a limited budget. Also, I have pre-built machines in a virtual lab that I use to test new software for campatibility reasons etc. If there is another way to do that, then that would be great. It would also be nice to say I have a desktop with 4GB of RAM, but we can get into that later;-) Gund -----Original Message----- From: Oliver Jones [mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz] Sent: Wed 8/09/2004 12:40 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: Re: [wlug] New Workstation Hardware Advice > Apart form the favourable reviews of NVidia graphics cards here, are > there any preferences to motherboards? IDE RAID controllers? I have > been living in laptop land for a while now and have lost contact with > desktop options and hardware. > > Ideally, the desktop will have > > 3GHz Processor or thereabouts > 4GB RAM > 2x120GB hard drives (one for mirror / backup) > DVD Writer Perhaps you would be best with an Athlon 64 based system? Not sure how well nVidia works with 64bit Linux though. From what I know (which is little) they have a very fast FSB etc. If you only want to go 32bit then 800Mhz FSB P4's are quite nice. I have a P4 2.6Ghz Intel i865 based system under my desk. It performs quite nicely. > The machine will primarily be used for VMs, so throughput would be > nice and the RAM _needs_ to be big. By VMs I take it you mean Virtual Machines. Are you planning on using User Model Linux or VMWare? Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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New Workstation Hardware Advice
by Gund Wehsling 08 Sep '04

08 Sep '04

Hi I am thinking about getting a new workstation for study/development. It will be a beast. Apart form the favourable reviews of NVidia graphics cards here, are there any preferences to motherboards? IDE RAID controllers? I have been living in laptop land for a while now and have lost contact with desktop options and hardware. Ideally, the desktop will have 3GHz Processor or thereabouts 4GB RAM 2x120GB hard drives (one for mirror / backup) DVD Writer The machine will primarily be used for VMs, so throughput would be nice and the RAM _needs_ to be big. Also, as I am a struggling NetWare engineer, a nice place that sells this and helps with finance would be a plus. Any thoughts in this direction, assume I am ignorant please. Many thanks Gund

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SuSE 9.0 Server ISOs have arrived
by Gund Wehsling 07 Sep '04

07 Sep '04

Good Day If you would like a copy of SuSE 9.0 Server ISOs I have a good verified copy of all 6. These are the same as the ISOs from Novells site and are 90-day limited. They will be the basis of a small business project I would like to start investigating from October and discussing here. I would be happy to cut you a copy if required - there are 6 all together - it may take time, but will be heaps quicker than downloading them yourself. Gund

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Dual head vid card for FC2
by Jodi Thomson 07 Sep '04

07 Sep '04

I've just upgraded to Fedora Core 2 and my old dual head config of a RIVA TNT2 & S3 Trio64 no longer wants to work for some unknown reason. To that end I'm looking at buying a new dual head card to replace them with. I've tried a MGA G400 with limited success as the secondary display is blotchy. I've tried googling for xorg supported hardware with little to no results. Can anyone suggest a card that will work? Cheers Jodi ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- Jodi W. Anderson, Mr (BA, A+, MCP) - Computer Systems Consultant Waikato University Library - Computing Operations Group Ph: +64 7 838 4323 email: jodi(a)waikato.ac.nz "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before."

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is Mgetty the right tool ?
by Gavin Denby 07 Sep '04

07 Sep '04

I am planning to add to my network again, to allow me to test stuff, and to allow me a remote access to my network. Basically I plan to be my own isp. I have jetstream at home, and I can access it from machines on the network, No problem. What I want to do net is to set up a server that I can dial into over my cellphone when I am away from the office and become part of the network This means I wish to access, not only my Internet, but also all my shared directories ... etc, It looks like mgetty will do this, has anyone done something like this before. Mostly it will be on an internal pabx line for testing purposes, and will give a basic 33.6k connection to the network. other than the obvious security risks, and slow speed, are there any pitfalls I should be aware of or better tools/methods I should consider. -- "Engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance." Dr A R Dykes.

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Sendmail... huge queue.
by Oliver Jones 06 Sep '04

06 Sep '04

I've noticed that my sendmail daemon has loads (57,000+) files in it's mqueue directory. I'm also getting lots of "grew WorkList for /var/spool/mqueue to 5000" type messages in my logs. I guess these log messages are related in some manner to the huge number of old messages in the mqueue dir. I was just looking at some of these messages and they date back quite a while. Back to June etc. Why has sendmail not purged these failed or delayed messages? I also note that I get quite a lot of: sendmail[29533]: i6IGZcl12816: to=<er(a)deeper.co.nz>, delay=49+11:13:30, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=cyrus, pri=121373, relay=localhost, dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown sendmail[29533]: i6IGZcl12816: i863nAl29533: DSN: User unknown sendmail[29533]: i863nAl29533: to=<paulfrenchvn(a)base.yonsei.ac.kr>, delay=00:00:03, xdelay=00:00:03, mailer=esmtp, pri=31301, relay=base.yonsei.ac.kr. [165.132.77.200], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown sendmail[29533]: i863nAl29533: i863nAm29533: return to sender: User unknown sendmail[29533]: i863nAm29533: to=postmaster, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=cyrus, pri=31401, relay=localhost [[UNIX: /var/imap/socket/lmtp]], dsn=5.6.0, stat=Service unavailable sendmail[29533]: i863nAl29533: Losing ./qfi863nAl29533: savemail panic sendmail[29533]: i863nAl29533: SYSERR(root): savemail: cannot save rejected email anywhere Fortunately this is primarily because of spam but shouldn't the double bounce at least be delivered to postmaster on hostility? I set up a specific account for postmaster on our cyrus IMAP server. And it certainly gets a lot of other spam and virus bounces. Perhaps this is all related somehow? Anyone here experience in the black art of sendmail who might be able to enlighten me? Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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ANNOUNCEMENT: Annual General Meeting, 13 Sep (2 weeks today)
by Craig Box 06 Sep '04

06 Sep '04

In accordance with Rule 6 of the charter, I would like to remind all members that the Waikato Linux Users Group (Incorporated) will be holding its Annual General Meeting on Monday, 13 September, 2004, at 7pm, at the Crawshaw School Hall (the same location as the Installfest.) All WLUG members are encouraged to make nominations for the WLUG committee for 2005. The charter specifies the committee as consisting of a President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer, and five general committee members. We are accepting nominations via the web page http://www.wlug.org.nz/WlugElections. The conditions of nomination are: * You shouldn't nominate yourself. (If you want to stand, post a note on the bottom of the page asking for someone to nominate you.) * You can only nominate or second someone if you are currently a 2003-2004 paid up member. * You can only vote at the upcoming AGM if you were a 2003-2004 paid up member, and have signed a new membership form for 2004-2005 (remember, you have 90 days to pay.) If you're at all interested, please ask someone to nominate you! Regards, Craig

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Re: SUse v FC2
by Craig Box 05 Sep '04

05 Sep '04

(also CC'd to wlug-list for interest) Hi Gun, > I'm investigating a server for my NW of 6-8 workstations. Do you > think FC2 or SuSE as a server for file and printer sharing? Is SUse > free like FC2 is? SUSE is free in the same way that all Linuxes are; they're built on GPL components, but some distributions are not necessarily made available the same way as others. You can download SUSE as a Knoppix-like live CD, a single CD "personal" distribution (that isn't what you want for a server) or you can get the packages for other versions of SUSE from their FTP site, and install it manually. You could also find people who have a copy locally, I'm expect Gund or Michael Cree will be able to help. Of those two I would recommend Fedora Core here - this is my personal recommendation, as I know it and like it and I can't really say the same about SUSE. As for "the recommendation of the LUG as a whole", if you're prepared to do everything from the command line and do a lot of learning, you still can't go past Debian. There will be a new version called "Sarge" (3.1) released in a couple of months; you can get a recent ISO file of the installer and go from there, downloading more recent packages off the Internet, or you could install Woody (3.0) and wait till Sarge is released and release over the top, etc.. A large reason people that moved away from Red Hat to Debian on their servers is that Red Hat didn't have an automatic way of downloading and installing packages, and Debian did (apt-get). Now, Red Hat (in the form of the Fedora Project) has yum, apt-get and up2date to choose from, it's not really a problem any more. Also, there is more software packaged for Debian (11,000 packages or so) but for the ones that you regularly need, they're all available in 3rd parties repositories for Fedora. >From my estimates of your experience, I think you couldn't go past Fedora Core. FC3 is also coming out in a couple of months time. Craig

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RE: [wlug] SUSE Personal 9.1 review
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 03 Sep '04

03 Sep '04

Yes it is, right under NZ. I don't think you got that far because of no dial up connection > > CHAT means Chatham Islands. Thanks Wayne I wondered what NZ chat time was when I saw it there (silly noob) > And it's moot because it wasn't listed at all. > > Craig I installed SuSE onto my laptop and desktop. Got a couple of problems with the monitors not reporting there X Y's When I manually configured them (with the gooey)The laptop remains unaffected and keeps reporting the problem, the desktopnow proudly announces there have been changes at every boot. We have a dial up with free net They have a peculiar habit of killing the connection every three hours which has meant that the update has crashed a couple of times and now yast is reporting that it " could not write server list to disk abort update?" If anyone knows how to deal with this it would be nice to hear from them.. Regards John..

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RE: [wlug] SUSE Personal 9.1 review
by Gund Wehsling 03 Sep '04

03 Sep '04

Hi Thank you for the great review, I would like to make a few points known that are not obvious to first time installers of SuSE: New Zealand timezone is listed under the 'Global' section in the continent selector as NZ or NZ-CHAT. ACPI is still regarded as experimental and a message to this effect is displayed when you try to alter any power settings. The message says to enable ACPI before the settings will become available. ACPI is located in the last tab on the power screen and can be enabled. Once enabled, the power control and ACPI functions become available. The idea to make it small and accessible will make it small and accessible, so there is little room for 'nice to haves'. The target market is definitely not the general LINUX community, so there will be no compile tools and little command line stuff. I think the idea is that my mother could install it and use it well on her P1. It autodetects _most_ commercially available hardware and is a great alternative to a couple of hundred dollars worth of competitive products. Other than that I liked your review and would like to see more like this on lists like this. Many thanks Gund -----Original Message----- From: Craig Box [mailto:craig(a)dubculture.co.nz] Sent: Wed 1/09/2004 21:13 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: [wlug] SUSE Personal 9.1 review As pointed out on the SUSE page on the wiki, the German distribution SUSE has never had much of a following in New Zealand. With the purchase of Novell and the impending push in support that Novell will give for SUSE based products, and the new availability of a one-CD 'personal' edition, I thought I'd give SUSE a try. Installation The personal edition of SUSE comes on one CD, and it seems very positive from the start. Immediately upon boot you get a nice graphical splash screen, allowing you to either continue booting from the hard drive or install Linux, in normal or failsafe mode. It will attempt to automatically detect your screen resolution for the graphical installer, or you can pick one from a list. When YaST, the SUSE installer/setup tool loads, the good impressions continue. The installer is very much like the RedHat/FedoraProject installer, with help down the left side and the main options in a larger window on the right. It makes some judgements about your computer and offers a single click install. It detected a Windows partition and offered to shrink it and install into the newly created space, which would be an excellent option for new users. On my test machine, a P3-500 laptop with 192mb of RAM, I told it I wanted to manually override this and install to the whole hard drive. There are some niggles in the installer - you specify the time zone at this point, and there wasn't one for New Zealand at all! I had to select GMT+12 from an "Etc" list, but this won't account for daylight savings. At this point I should point out that the functionality available is limited by the fact this is a one CD distribution - you don't get GNOME, but SUSE has always been strongly aligned with KDE. The installer claimed it was going to install 1.4Gb of data - decent compression for a 700mb CD - and did so in a little over 45 minutes. The slide show was reasonably standard, offering screenshots and soundbites. KDE is referred to as "the comfortable desktop" - a comment on it's well known "resemblance" to MicrosoftWindows, I'm sure. The screenshots looked like they could do with being updated. They advertised Kopete and GAIM on the same screen - while it's nice to have options, it's also nice to have a 'best of breed'. (The personal edition doesn't actually have GAIM). Also, for a Windows user going through this setup, I think I'd like to see projects with less 'kooky' names. After a reboot, YaST continued with it's first boot routine, setting up user accounts and hardware. It complained about 'root' as a root password on two counts, being too short and containing the username. It also asked me to create a user account, and I notice it had auto-login on for that user. It also auto-detected the laptop's built in modem. After about an hour total, I had booted into SUSE. Desktop Experience Linux is Linux, and as a regular GNOME user, it's hard to judge a KDE desktop objectively. I'm not sure how much of the issues were SUSE and how much were KDE, but as SUSE are the major sponsor of KDE development I assume the two are interconnected somehow. The desktop is very reminiscent of Knoppix or Mandrake, but after an excellent looking setup routine, the default desktop was disappointing. The main fonts were too small and the OpenOffice fonts were too big. Changing the KDE fonts was simple; setting font size to 90% in OpenOffice made them look almost identical (more so than they do on Fedora), but it's not something that a normal user will be able to do. It's possibly not even something they'd notice. Desktop icons give you a nice tooltip, but they need to be single clicked, which isn't immediately clear. I had two of everything popping up straight away. For a personal edition desktop, it offers litlte more than three games - Enigma, Freeciv and Frozen Bubble. KDE on other distros ships with dozens of little games - I found it odd that they were all missing. Surely something like the LIRC client could be cleared to make way for Soko Ban. The SUSE help, built on the KDE help center, has a great manual built in, but it seems a little out of date, and it isn't customized for the personal edition. The desktop sharing stuff in KDE looked promising, if not a direct copy of the Remote Assistance feature in Windows. I'm glad to see the mail/contacts/calendar apps compiled into one application but it's hidden in the Office menu below "Document Viewer" and above "Office Suite", yet named "Kontact" and not "Groupware Client" or "Email/Contacts". Overall however the menu structure was far more contained than Fedora's mess, and more manageable than Knoppix by virtue of having less packages installed. As a personal edition I didn't check too far into the console - Aristotle suggests that it's crippled without a compiler, but I was trying to use locate and it didn't even have that! Surely it could have done away with something like the LIRC server in favour of a bit more power in the CLI. Hardware support YaST has some nice ideas - it has a "Load Vendor Driver CD" option for example, which would be great if vendors shipped driver CDs, but after the initial detection of the modem, I was let down by it saying that it needed the 'ltmodem' package, which wasn't on the CD. SUSE 9.1 Personal comes with Sun's Java, Acrobat Reader and RealPlayer, so they're obviously happy with licensing software. The lack of internet connectivity meant that, without a network card in the laptop, I couldn't go any further with internet access. Otherwise, YaST seems like a very clean interface for configuring a system, and isn't just a copy of Control Panel. Being built on the 2.6 kernel, I would have expected better laptop support as well. Closing the hood seemed to make no effect, either on AC power or on the battery. The ACPI options in YaST suggested that there was no ACPI support, and APM didn't do anything. Sound "just worked" - including software mixing in all the applications I tried, including the always tricky RealPlayer. I was very glad to see Noatun dropped in favour of xmms. Conclusion I have only seen little bits of Mandrake, but from what I have seen, as a KDE distribution it rivals SUSE on every strength, and now that YaST is open source, it could well have everything that SUSE Personal has to offer. If you're looking for something to give to your Mum, and you're a KDE fan, evaluate Mandrake along with SUSE. Personally, I hope the fact that SUSE is now under the same wing as Novell's Ximian team, means that we will see some of their great advances and ability to make simple tidy ups to a broken interface, applied to the SUSE desktop. _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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SUSE Personal 9.1 review
by Craig Box 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

As pointed out on the SUSE page on the wiki, the German distribution SUSE has never had much of a following in New Zealand. With the purchase of Novell and the impending push in support that Novell will give for SUSE based products, and the new availability of a one-CD 'personal' edition, I thought I'd give SUSE a try. Installation The personal edition of SUSE comes on one CD, and it seems very positive from the start. Immediately upon boot you get a nice graphical splash screen, allowing you to either continue booting from the hard drive or install Linux, in normal or failsafe mode. It will attempt to automatically detect your screen resolution for the graphical installer, or you can pick one from a list. When YaST, the SUSE installer/setup tool loads, the good impressions continue. The installer is very much like the RedHat/FedoraProject installer, with help down the left side and the main options in a larger window on the right. It makes some judgements about your computer and offers a single click install. It detected a Windows partition and offered to shrink it and install into the newly created space, which would be an excellent option for new users. On my test machine, a P3-500 laptop with 192mb of RAM, I told it I wanted to manually override this and install to the whole hard drive. There are some niggles in the installer - you specify the time zone at this point, and there wasn't one for New Zealand at all! I had to select GMT+12 from an "Etc" list, but this won't account for daylight savings. At this point I should point out that the functionality available is limited by the fact this is a one CD distribution - you don't get GNOME, but SUSE has always been strongly aligned with KDE. The installer claimed it was going to install 1.4Gb of data - decent compression for a 700mb CD - and did so in a little over 45 minutes. The slide show was reasonably standard, offering screenshots and soundbites. KDE is referred to as "the comfortable desktop" - a comment on it's well known "resemblance" to MicrosoftWindows, I'm sure. The screenshots looked like they could do with being updated. They advertised Kopete and GAIM on the same screen - while it's nice to have options, it's also nice to have a 'best of breed'. (The personal edition doesn't actually have GAIM). Also, for a Windows user going through this setup, I think I'd like to see projects with less 'kooky' names. After a reboot, YaST continued with it's first boot routine, setting up user accounts and hardware. It complained about 'root' as a root password on two counts, being too short and containing the username. It also asked me to create a user account, and I notice it had auto-login on for that user. It also auto-detected the laptop's built in modem. After about an hour total, I had booted into SUSE. Desktop Experience Linux is Linux, and as a regular GNOME user, it's hard to judge a KDE desktop objectively. I'm not sure how much of the issues were SUSE and how much were KDE, but as SUSE are the major sponsor of KDE development I assume the two are interconnected somehow. The desktop is very reminiscent of Knoppix or Mandrake, but after an excellent looking setup routine, the default desktop was disappointing. The main fonts were too small and the OpenOffice fonts were too big. Changing the KDE fonts was simple; setting font size to 90% in OpenOffice made them look almost identical (more so than they do on Fedora), but it's not something that a normal user will be able to do. It's possibly not even something they'd notice. Desktop icons give you a nice tooltip, but they need to be single clicked, which isn't immediately clear. I had two of everything popping up straight away. For a personal edition desktop, it offers litlte more than three games - Enigma, Freeciv and Frozen Bubble. KDE on other distros ships with dozens of little games - I found it odd that they were all missing. Surely something like the LIRC client could be cleared to make way for Soko Ban. The SUSE help, built on the KDE help center, has a great manual built in, but it seems a little out of date, and it isn't customized for the personal edition. The desktop sharing stuff in KDE looked promising, if not a direct copy of the Remote Assistance feature in Windows. I'm glad to see the mail/contacts/calendar apps compiled into one application but it's hidden in the Office menu below "Document Viewer" and above "Office Suite", yet named "Kontact" and not "Groupware Client" or "Email/Contacts". Overall however the menu structure was far more contained than Fedora's mess, and more manageable than Knoppix by virtue of having less packages installed. As a personal edition I didn't check too far into the console - Aristotle suggests that it's crippled without a compiler, but I was trying to use locate and it didn't even have that! Surely it could have done away with something like the LIRC server in favour of a bit more power in the CLI. Hardware support YaST has some nice ideas - it has a "Load Vendor Driver CD" option for example, which would be great if vendors shipped driver CDs, but after the initial detection of the modem, I was let down by it saying that it needed the 'ltmodem' package, which wasn't on the CD. SUSE 9.1 Personal comes with Sun's Java, Acrobat Reader and RealPlayer, so they're obviously happy with licensing software. The lack of internet connectivity meant that, without a network card in the laptop, I couldn't go any further with internet access. Otherwise, YaST seems like a very clean interface for configuring a system, and isn't just a copy of Control Panel. Being built on the 2.6 kernel, I would have expected better laptop support as well. Closing the hood seemed to make no effect, either on AC power or on the battery. The ACPI options in YaST suggested that there was no ACPI support, and APM didn't do anything. Sound "just worked" - including software mixing in all the applications I tried, including the always tricky RealPlayer. I was very glad to see Noatun dropped in favour of xmms. Conclusion I have only seen little bits of Mandrake, but from what I have seen, as a KDE distribution it rivals SUSE on every strength, and now that YaST is open source, it could well have everything that SUSE Personal has to offer. If you're looking for something to give to your Mum, and you're a KDE fan, evaluate Mandrake along with SUSE. Personally, I hope the fact that SUSE is now under the same wing as Novell's Ximian team, means that we will see some of their great advances and ability to make simple tidy ups to a broken interface, applied to the SUSE desktop.

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RE: [wlug] SUSE Personal 9.1 review
by Lindsay Druett 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

But alas, on all the Cisco courses I've been on (a couple of them led by instructors with CCIE) had Windows machines and were using Hyperterm. I've also seen to many people out in the field using Hyperterm. It's *very* sad... > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Lawson [mailto:daniel(a)meta.net.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 2 September 2004 09:55 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] SUSE Personal 9.1 review > > > Lindsay Druett wrote: > > >I guess minicom is a 'nice to have'. > > > >It certainly would have been nice for me to have when I wanted to > >connect my laptop/desktop into the console port of a Cisco device. > > > > > > > > Real Cisco engineers use cat. > > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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RE: [wlug] SUSE Personal 9.1 review
by Lindsay Druett 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

I guess minicom is a 'nice to have'. It certainly would have been nice for me to have when I wanted to connect my laptop/desktop into the console port of a Cisco device. Well, can't complain too much, at least joe (Joe's own editor) was part of the package. > The idea to make it small and accessible will make it small > and accessible, so there is little room for 'nice to haves'. > The target market is definitely not the general LINUX > community, so there will be no compile tools and little > command line stuff. I think the idea is that my mother could > install it and use it well on her P1. It autodetects _most_ > commercially available hardware and is a great alternative to > a couple of hundred dollars worth of competitive products. >

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Can some *please* explain this error
by Lindsay Druett 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

What's this error message all about when I'm trying todo the following apt-get install cyrus21-admin cyrus21-common cyrus21-clients cyrus21-doc cyrus21-imapd cyrus21-pop3d libcyrus-imap-perl21 sasl2-bin I get this error message... dpkg: syntax error: unknown group `Debian-exim' in statusoverride file E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)

2 2

Modern software on old hardware
by Craig Box 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

I recently had a Celeron 500 that I wanted to install for my flatmate to use as an internet/email machine. All evidence points to the 2.6 kernel being better on old hardware than 2.4, and in general support for hardware increases as you have newer software, so I thought I'd try installing Fedora Core 2 (then test3) on the machine. I've heard good things about the XFCE desktop environment, so I installed that. The machine started out with 64mb of RAM and took an ice age to install (I think it's about the RPM database needing to be in RAM at install time). It quickly got upgraded to 192mb RAM, which isn't exactly "new modern specs" but is a machine that was better specced than many machines we had at the recent installfest. I ran a quick, responsive, usable desktop environment on a 286 at 10Mhz. Linux was basically unusable on this machine. Software took an age to load, you could hardly run two things at the same time, and it was constantly in swap. The options seemed to be "run Windows 98" (the OS the machine was originally shipped with), or get some sort of Linux distribution that was around the same age. The Fedora Legacy project provides security updates for Red Hat as far back as 7.3, but I really don't want to run old software. In the end I found a surprising third option - I installed Windows XP and turned off most of the flash visual bits and pieces, and ended up with a usable machine running modern software. Not something that I wanted to have to do! There's a long standing belief that Linux can be used to revitalise old hardware. Short of using a terminal server of some description (which wasn't an option in this case), is this true? Craig

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RE: [wlug] VOIP
by Lindsay Druett 30 Aug '04

30 Aug '04

Argh... This sounds so sad, yet another person wants to use a Windows machine as a SIP phone... Around $ 250.00 will buy you a Cisco ATA-186 phone adaptor and give you two phone lines... Visit www.fwd.pulver.com and download their IP Phone and connect up with them, get a phone number and try some of these phone numbers... http://www.wlug.org.nz/SIPDirectory You could also try www.stanaphone.com Here's my set up http://www.lindsay.wired.net.nz/projects/sip/ > -----Original Message----- > From: jaytee(a)clear.net.nz [mailto:jaytee(a)clear.net.nz] > Sent: Monday, 30 August 2004 17:01 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: [wlug] VOIP > > > Hi All, > Can anyone give me some simple instructions for a > windows 98 user to get internet telphone service here in NZ? > Regards John > > > info/wlug > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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VOIP
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 30 Aug '04

30 Aug '04

Hi All, Can anyone give me some simple instructions for a windows 98 user to get internet telphone service here in NZ? Regards John info/wlug

1 0

Yoper
by s swami 29 Aug '04

29 Aug '04

I've just installed V2.0 (thinking it was 2.1). Yoper V2.0 comes with KDE 3.2.3 (V2.1 comes with KDE 3.3 and OpenOffice.org so I'll be visiting Copyleft soon). I have a small network and always use /etc/hosts rather than DHCP. I might have done something wrong (I know I didn't say "yes" to DHCP) so eth0 wasn't up. I fixed this by putting the appropriate ifconfigs in /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/S20network (RedHat-like rc configurations are scary!) SiS SI7012 audio works out-of-the-box. My wheel mouse was detected. (Hey, it's a big deal for me ok ;-) I'll have to set up my brother HL-1430 printer manually. And one small thing: Yoper is as responsive as W2K on this machine -- in fact, it is probably faster. Barring something major, Yoper will now be my desktop OS (just like they said it would :-) _Kudos to Andreas and his development team_ Sid.

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Filesystem Top.
by Oliver Jones 28 Aug '04

28 Aug '04

Heya. Anyone know of a tool that is like "top" but for showing the number of files a process has open. I know all about lsof. But I want something along the lines of: PID NAME OPENFILES 1234 httpd 20 5321 bash 5 ... Etc... Something I can sort by number of files open like you can sort top by memory or cpu usage. Anyone know of anything like this or knows how to get lsof and some grep/perl/awk filters to do something similar. Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

6 7

Yoper CD wanted
by s swami 27 Aug '04

27 Aug '04

Hi folks I've been meaning to test-drive Yoper for a while (and now it has KDE 3.3 :-) But I haven't been able to find a spot on yoper.com where I can buy a CD copy of the latest version and my 33k dial-up connection is a little shy about the bittorrent that has kindly been made available. Does someone have a CD? Happy to pay student prices :-) Cheers, Sid.

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CD issues
by Jared Wigmore 26 Aug '04

26 Aug '04

Hi, I regularly get the message, "hda: lost interrupt" (that's my cd drive). Additionally, it takes a long time to mount, and to access each directory/file. I'm using kernel 2.4 on RedHat 9. Any advice. ===== -- JaredWigmore -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GCM/CS/S d? s+++:-- a? C++++ UL++ P--- L++ E>+++ W++ N>+ o? K- w--- O? M-- V-- PS-- Y-- PGP- t+++ 5? X R* tv b++ DI D G e- h! !r z- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ http://www.wlug.org.nz/JaredWigmore http://AnswersInGenisis.org/ http://www.againsttcpa.com/ ---------------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com

3 2

Linux challenges for students from IBM
by Craig Box 25 Aug '04

25 Aug '04

"College and university students can make improvements to Linux, create usability tools or enhancements, or design Linux applications. The goals of the contest are to: 1. Promote student use of Linux worldwide 2. Solve real-world Linux issues-make Linux better! 3. Design or develop an application using Linux Prizes will be awarded to the top 20 entries, judged by IBM Linux personnel. These 20 students will receive an IBM ThinkPad with Linux and will also have the opportunity to qualify for one of three summer 2005 Internships at our Linux Technology Center. There will also be a University Award, one (1) Linux 16-node "start-up" cluster, given to the university who has the highest overall average from their students' entries." http://www.developer.ibm.com/university/students/contests/linux/ Craig

1 0

Linux Laptops.
by Oliver Jones 25 Aug '04

25 Aug '04

Recently I've been thinking about buying a laptop. I've been thinking about an Apple 17" G4 Powerbook but I figure that's just a little to far from the flock... ie, I'd have to find replacements for too much software I currently use. For serious stuff I currently use Linux (Fedora Core 1) and it's associated apps. For "play" I use Windows XP. On XP I mainly use things like DVD Decrypter, PowerDVD, etc. Media playback and storage utils basically. Occasionally I play some Windows games but I'd be happy enough with just my consoles for that. There are some things about buying a laptop that concern me. One is unsupported hardware in Linux. The others are screen size (I use a 21" CRT at the moment) and speed (current PC's is a 2.6Ghz P4s). Anyone here have any suggestions regarding desktop replacement Laptops that have very good hardware support on Linux? Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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RE: [wlug] Linux Laptops.
by David Nicholls 25 Aug '04

25 Aug '04

mind you are you aware that mandrake do a PPC version of 9.1? for both sale and free download (i have all three ISOs if anyone wants them by the way). unsure just how good it is but it is one option also there is the opendarwin project (OS X backend for them as is iggerant ;]) - bsd based of course. once again i have an ISO i downloaded out of interest if anybody is. cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Oliver Jones [mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 25 August 2004 11:58 am Subject: [wlug] Linux Laptops. Recently I've been thinking about buying a laptop. I've been thinking about an Apple 17" G4 Powerbook but I figure that's just a little to far from the flock... ie, I'd have to find replacements for too much software I currently use. For serious stuff I currently use Linux (Fedora Core 1) and it's associated apps. For "play" I use Windows XP. On XP I mainly use things like DVD Decrypter, PowerDVD, etc. Media playback and storage utils basically. Occasionally I play some Windows games but I'd be happy enough with just my consoles for that. There are some things about buying a laptop that concern me. One is unsupported hardware in Linux. The others are screen size (I use a 21" CRT at the moment) and speed (current PC's is a 2.6Ghz P4s). Anyone here have any suggestions regarding desktop replacement Laptops that have very good hardware support on Linux? Regards Oliver Jones

2 1

sendmail issue
by Gavin Denby 24 Aug '04

24 Aug '04

I am setting up a simple sendmail replacement for an old redhat machine with a dying hard drive. I decided to use a newer distro and went to slackware. I have copied the old data from the sendmail.cf files over and everything runs well until I send a local mail from console. Instead of getting mail from user(a)domainname.com the machine name is added, and i get user(a)machinename.domainname.com Of course if you reply this gets to be a real mess. Clients accessing via pop are ok , its just local automated messages that are causing issues. I have set Dj$w.domainname.com I have commented out all classes. I added DMdomainname.com I made the start with M4, is there something I can add there that will fix this ?? I hoped Masquerade_as(domainname.com)dnl would be enough, but still the machine name appears in the mail address ... ARGHHH !!!!! I planned to add an auto mail tool, but not until this is fixed. What have I missed ??? -- "Engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance." Dr A R Dykes.

1 1

WLUG Meeting is tonight
by Meeting Reminder bot 22 Aug '04

22 Aug '04

The WLUG meeting is this evening ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hacking your XBox - The Linux Way!. DrewBroadley (coming all the way from PalmerstonNorth) will cover Linux on an XBox, including using it as a media center. Don't miss this one! Location: CrawshawSchool Time: 7pm Doors will be open from ten to seven or so, presentation will start shortly after 7. __Topics__ How to Mod an XBOX: *Software Modifications *Hardware Modifications Xbox and Linux *Web/File/Media Server *Distros available Opensource Software and the XBOX *Xbox Media Center __Possible Extra Topics__ ''add your own suggestions''

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RE: [wlug] LINUX Servers in the SMB Workspace.
by Gund Wehsling 22 Aug '04

22 Aug '04

Hi Good points raised and not ones we are ignoring. To make sure we are not re-inventing the wheel, we have started a download of SuSE Standard Server 9 eval and once it is here, I will copy it and distribute it to all that are interested. In the meantime, a concensus needs to be reached as to what the server will support. I know that it would be nice to have a server that supplies all things to all people, but we feel that covering all bases may be too broad and it would be easier to sell a server solution that carries out basic although vital tasks, with ease, in such a way that the market comes to accept the solutions and products as stable and secure. For this reason and to keep things simple, we have a list of 'basics' that should be setup, standard and easy to use, troubleshoot and maintain, they are: DNS DHCP SAMBA / File and Print NETWORK SERVICES / Routing SECURITY / Firewall and authentication WEB / Proxy MAIL / IMAP and or Webmail The server design will be setup and tested as rigourisly as possible, fully documented, have a scripted install (or an aesy to follow install path that is well documented) that enables an easy setup / rebuild. The above services will become available within hours of arriving at a new site and with minimal 'tweaking / hacking'. The base idea that we don't want to lose here is that it must be easy to understand / support / install and must be reliable and stable enough that the end users start to change thier ideas about proprietry software and operating systems and the open source model is then promoted. Many of my customers are still 'fiddling' with LINUX and many of them are still concerned about what is a good desktop and what is a good word processor and I think that those discussions will go on forever until sombody realises that actual value of an installed and established system. So I am hoping we can spend time deciding on and testing and proving the best means of setting up and supplying the above services to sites that need them in a stable configuration at a fair cost in terms of resource (money or time). It has been my experience that most smaller companies will not really worry too much about what is running at the back-end and the mid to larger ones want clearly defined proceedures and best-practices before a solution can be considered, so as much as I hate paperwork, part of this project will be to supply those, as part of the bundle / solution. Now you can all start throwing chairs. Please address feedback direclty to the group unless it is trivial and please 'snip' this msg when replying. Many thanks Gund -----Original Message----- From: Oliver Jones [mailto:oliver(a)deeper.co.nz] Sent: Fri 20/08/2004 16:50 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: Re: [wlug] LINUX Servers in the SMB Workspace. I personally think a turn key solution for SMB customers is a great idea. There are a few already out there already. The hardest thing I think you will find is defining exactly what features you solution should have. There is also a lot of work involved in making it self manageable. If you're going to offer management services as well that removes some of that integration work. Regards On Fri, 2004-08-20 at 15:10, Daniel Lawson wrote: >I will try to clarify what I asked yesterday and then we can start a chair fight. > > Excellent :) > >I am looking at starting a discussion / dialogue / knowledge transfer between all interested with the view to testing and building a single working solution that can be installed / sold to small to medium businesses. > >We (my colleagues and I) would like to build this on SuSE Server 9. At this moment, we think we have a viable product if we can all agree on what services this server will provide and how. Then, strip away the unnecessary packages and rpms till there is a 'standard' build that can easily be supported / installed. > > Ah, ok. Yes, this sounds like a good thing to work on. >I asked this becasue I wanted to get away from a discussions about desktop applications and processes and preferences and start focussing on an actual server product that can be sold or installed with the associated services. > > A wise move! >Anyhow, I hope this is not too vauge, nothing is actually written down yet, so we are starting fresh and anybody interested can join in or we can discuss it here if this forum will support that. > > As far as I'm concerned , it's fine to carry it on here, although it's trivial to move to another list if we find that it gets annoying. Daniel _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug <http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug> -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com <mailto:oliver.jones(a)deeperdesign.com> » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com <http://www.deeperdesign.com>

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RE: [wlug] SuSE 9.1 again
by Gund Wehsling 22 Aug '04

22 Aug '04

Hi Refresh my memory, what hardware are you using? Have you tried the 'safe mode' installations? Rgds Gund -----Original Message----- From: jaytee(a)clear.net.nz [mailto:jaytee(a)clear.net.nz] Sent: Sun 22/08/2004 13:24 To: wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Cc: Subject: [wlug] SuSE 9.1 again Hi All. After the SuSE failed to boot after a couple of install attempts I tried the Knoppix live C/D. It did not boot either and showed a page of I/O errors then locked on the Knoppix splash screen. <snip>

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(no subject)
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 22 Aug '04

22 Aug '04

Hi All. After the SuSE failed to boot after a couple of install attempts I tried the Knoppix live C/D. It did not boot either and showed a page of I/O errors then locked on the Knoppix splash screen. I reinstalled SuSE again making sure that the Linux partions were formatted (yes) This time the programme did run with one error on screen. Resolution x and y not entered fonts may be affected. What do I need to do to solve that? Also the modem is not configured correctly. Stupid mode is not checked, should it be?? Regards John..

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SuSE 9.1 again
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 22 Aug '04

22 Aug '04

Hi All. After the SuSE failed to boot after a couple of install attempts I tried the Knoppix live C/D. It did not boot either and showed a page of I/O errors then locked on the Knoppix splash screen. I reinstalled SuSE again making sure that the Linux partions were formatted (yes) This time the programme did run with one error on screen. Resolution x and y not entered fonts may be affected. What do I need to do to solve that? Also the modem is not configured correctly. Stupid mode is not checked, should it be?? Regards John..

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help at school
by Terry Cole 21 Aug '04

21 Aug '04

I have at school an existing web server/Intranet (RedHat 9). This controls access to the net using Squid and Dans Guardian. I have had a Uni student as part of her final paper set up a new server using Suse 9 has a replacement. She has now completed her degree and moved on to full time employment out of town. The new server also hosts one of our domains. I would like help on configuring Squid, etc and swapping over the servers with minimal down time. Can someone on the group help me with this process? It would mean someone from Rotorua or someone who is prepared to travel across to us. We will pay you for your time, etc. Please contact me off this list, if you can help. Thanks Terry Cole Rotorua, New Zealand mailto:terry(a)cole.gen.nz http://www.cole.gen.nz http://www.websnz.com

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Re: [wlug] Suse CD install
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 20 Aug '04

20 Aug '04

Hi Group, I did get a SuSE 9.1 and tried to install onto Dell cpx 500 mhz laptop with ati rage video card. The install went pretty good except no 3D, I was not allowed to change the screen resolution, eth0 and modem were not configured. Set up ran right up to intial logon then blank blue screened at the end of the linux startup routine I wonder if I am obliged to get an online update before I get Linux up?? If any one can help (in lay terms) please go right ahead. Regards John..

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all-java database gift from IBM
by s swami 20 Aug '04

20 Aug '04

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/dm-0408anders…

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RE: [wlug] LINUX Servers in the SMB Workspace.
by Gund Wehsling 20 Aug '04

20 Aug '04

Hi I will try to clarify what I asked yesterday and then we can start a chair fight. I am looking at starting a discussion / dialogue / knowledge transfer between all interested with the view to testing and building a single working solution that can be installed / sold to small to medium businesses. We (my colleagues and I) would like to build this on SuSE Server 9. At this moment, we think we have a viable product if we can all agree on what services this server will provide and how. Then, strip away the unnecessary packages and rpms till there is a 'standard' build that can easily be supported / installed. I asked this becasue I wanted to get away from a discussions about desktop applications and processes and preferences and start focussing on an actual server product that can be sold or installed with the associated services. I guess. Anyhow, I hope this is not too vauge, nothing is actually written down yet, so we are starting fresh and anybody interested can join in or we can discuss it here if this forum will support that. Thanks Gund -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Lawson [mailto:daniel(a)meta.net.nz] Sent: Thu 19/08/2004 15:52 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: Re: [wlug] LINUX Servers in the SMB Workspace. Gund, Could you clarify what it is you are asking us to raise our hands for? I'm guessing you're asking for victi^Wvolunteers to have SuSE + SMB etc installed - is that right? Daniel > A quick raise of hands - who is interested? I can take this outside of the list if it is beyond the scope of what is being done here. Or we can start it here as if successful, there will be a demand of Linux engineers as a result so I think what we want to do will have common interest. > > Either way. At this moment, I am not interested in what is being done on the desktop for what is required here, I am looking at a basic achievable goal to start, with the possibility of desktop work later. > > We are looking at SuSE Open Server and will piggy back Novell campains and support as we go along. > > So - hands up or contact me off list. > > _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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RE: [wlug] Suse CD install
by Gund Wehsling 19 Aug '04

19 Aug '04

Hi Had a Dell. There is a Yahoo group that specializes in Linux on Dells, search there, can't remember what exactly the URL is. They have the answers as I had the same problem. Cheers Gund -----Original Message----- From: jaytee(a)clear.net.nz [mailto:jaytee(a)clear.net.nz] Sent: Thu 19/08/2004 20:34 To: jaytee(a)clear.net.nz; Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: Re: [wlug] Suse CD install Hi Group, I did get a SuSE 9.1 and tried to install onto Dell cpx 500 mhz laptop with ati rage video card. The install went pretty good except no 3D, I was not allowed to change the screen resolution, eth0 and modem were not configured. Set up ran right up to intial logon then blank blue screened at the end of the linux startup routine I wonder if I am obliged to get an online update before I get Linux up?? If any one can help (in lay terms) please go right ahead. Regards John.. _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Sound mixing
by Jared Wigmore 19 Aug '04

19 Aug '04

I have sound already (with the sb driver), and I'm running ESounD. The problem is, programs that haven't been configured to work with esd can't make sound at all while it's running. What would be the best solution? ===== -- JaredWigmore -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GCM/CS/S d? s+++:-- a? C++++ UL++ P--- L++ E>+++ W++ N>+ o? K- w--- O? M-- V-- PS-- Y-- PGP- t+++ 5? X R* tv b++ DI D G e- h! !r z- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ http://www.wlug.org.nz/JaredWigmore http://AnswersInGenisis.org/ http://www.againsttcpa.com/ ---------------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com

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LINUX Servers in the SMB Workspace.
by Gund Wehsling 19 Aug '04

19 Aug '04

Hi After some Linux / Novell training in Auckland a few weeks back, some of my coleagues and I have decided to get extremely serious about deploying Linux into the common market place. We are mostly NetWare engineers with a keen interest in what Novell is doing now with SuSE and it's next operating system release and we would like to take this from the shed into the workplace. A quick raise of hands - who is interested? I can take this outside of the list if it is beyond the scope of what is being done here. Or we can start it here as if successful, there will be a demand of Linux engineers as a result so I think what we want to do will have common interest. Either way. At this moment, I am not interested in what is being done on the desktop for what is required here, I am looking at a basic achievable goal to start, with the possibility of desktop work later. We are looking at SuSE Open Server and will piggy back Novell campains and support as we go along. So - hands up or contact me off list. Rgds Gund

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PLEASE READ: Committee minutes & nominations for 2004-2005 election
by Craig Box 19 Aug '04

19 Aug '04

Hi everyone, The minutes of last nights committee meeting are now available at http://www.wlug.org.nz/CommitteeMeetingTopics.2004-08-18. All WLUG members are now invited to make nominations for the WLUG committee for 2005. The charter specifies the committee as consisting of a President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer, and five general committee members. We are accepting nominations via the web page http://www.wlug.org.nz/WlugElections. The conditions of nomination are: * You shouldn't nominate yourself. (If you want to stand, post a note on the bottom of the page asking for someone to nominate you.) * You can only nominate or second someone if you are currently a 2003-2004 paid up member. * You can only vote at the upcoming AGM if you were a 2003-2004 paid up member, and have signed a new membership form for 2004-2005 (remember, you have 90 days to pay.) Voting at the AGM will be using the Single Transferrable Vote system that the district health boards/councils are using, care of the open source implementation at http://stv.sourceforge.net/. If you have any queries, please post to the bottom of the page and we will attempt to clear them up quickly. Regards, Craig

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Upcoming meeting this Monday (23rd)
by John R. McPherson 18 Aug '04

18 Aug '04

Hi everyone, since out Meeting Reminder Bot doesn't seem to be working properly yet, this is just a reminder of our monthly meeting coming up on Monday. (Remember that meetings are on the 4th Monday of the month, not the last Monday). This month's meeting will be a presentation by Drew Broadley on XBox mods/Running Linux on an XBox, and it will be held at Crawshaw School, starting at our winter start time of 7pm. Links: http://www.wlug.org.nz/MeetingTopics.2004-08-23 http://www.wlug.org.nz/DrewBroadley http://www.wlug.org.nz/CrawshawSchool (has a map) John.

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RE: [wlug] Suitable laptop for Linux?
by Gund Wehsling 18 Aug '04

18 Aug '04

Have A10, ditto. Would rather have my old Dell back. However, in defence of A10, SuSE 9.1 did pick up every piece of hardware, including modem. However, no serial ports or PS/2 is a problem for me and what I do during the day. Speakers are horrid. DVD is only 2x writer (45mins for 4.5GB disc) 16x CDR. It also came bundled with WinXP Pro. I did get this one for free though, but I sometimes wonder. Like Denise, I had to buy a mouse, USB to Serial converter, external speakers etc.... If it covers your bases then buy it. It does not work for me though. -----Original Message----- From: Denise Bates [mailto:dbates(a)iconz.co.nz] Sent: Wed 18/08/2004 18:14 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: Re: [wlug] Suitable laptop for Linux? On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:50, Gavin Denby wrote: > I saw in a flyer from warehouse stationery that they have a Toshiba A10 > with Intel integrated graphics and celeron 2.2 > > Price is about 1500 so in budget. but that includes MS tax. > > Intel tend to be good at linux support nowadays > > worth a look if you dont have one yet I bought one a couple of months ago and have installed Mandrake 10.0 on it. Most things were detected during installation and worked well. Sound, Video, and CD-writer needed no fiddling to speak of. The speakers are pathetic, and the touch-pad is quite useless! As useful as an on-board mouse can be on occasions, I replaced it with an external USB wheelmouse immediately (it has no PS2 port). The internal 56k modem didn't work (I didn't really expect it to). I selected this model because it had a PCMCIA slot, so I could fit a proper modem, rather than wrestle with a winmodem. As much as I would have preferred to buy a Windoze-free laptop, the only other readily-available candidate (from DSE) didn't have PCMCIA, and at the time, the prices were comparable. I removed the internal modem (an easy job) just in case it caused problems. The Toshiba A10 does have a couple of shortcomings. It has no serial or parallel ports, and it doesn't have a floppy drive either. I managed to get a parallel printer to work with a USB-to-serial/parallel adapter from DSE, but it was something of a battle. Last week, I bought a Epson CX3100 multifunction thingee, and it works perfectly with minimal fiddling: Printer, Scanner, and Copier! Another minor irritation is that the PCMCIA slot seems to have almost no "grip" to the card which is inserted. Even a small tug, applied to disconnect the modem cable, pulls out the card itself. No floppy, ports, useable mouse-substitute, or working modem! When you buy all the "extras" that should be standard it isn't much of a bargain. -- regards, ********************************************* Dr Denise J. Bates, PhD School of Geography & Environmental Science University of Auckland Private Bag 92019, Auckland New Zealand E-mail: d.bates(a)auckland.ac.nz Telephone 09-3737599 ext 86592 Home: 09-2336433 email: dbates(a)iconz.co.nz ********************************************* _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Suitable laptop for Linux?
by Jonathan Purvis 18 Aug '04

18 Aug '04

My iMac has finally died (instead of booting when switched on, it makes a high-pitched noise and a burning smell), so i'm going to have to buy a new computer. I'm thinking of purchasing a laptop. I'd like one that works with Linux, preferably doesn't come with a bundled version of Microsoft Windows and is under $2000. Other than the ECS A531 (http://www.wlug.org.nz/A531Laptop) are there others that meet my criteria? Is the A531 a good laptop to buy? All i'll be doing is writing programs, web browsing, emulating calculators and playing DVDs (so video is useful too). CPU speed isn't really a factor, anyone who knows me will tell you that i seem to stay away from fast computers. ;) Thanks, Jon

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Cyrus21 Help...
by Lindsay Druett 11 Aug '04

11 Aug '04

I have a Cyrus21 imap/pop3 server which is getting emails alright, you can create subfolders and shift email around, but you put emails into sent items... With Outlook Express, which is what *the customer* is using, you get this error... Some of the messages in your Outbox Folder could not be copied to your Sent Items Folder. Your message could not be uploaded to the IMAP server. The server refused to accept it. Subject 'Fw: Cron <amavis-stats(a)celaeno> [ -x /usr/sbin/amavis-stats ] && /usr/sbin/amavis-stats /var/log/mail.info', Account: 'Lindsay Druett', Server: 'mail.gateway-net.com', Protocol: IMAP, Server Response: 'Permission denied', Port: 143, Secure(SSL): No, Error Number: 0x800CCCD2 With Mozilla, whihc is what *I* use, you get a similar error. Any ideas ? BTW - It is using sieve, and there is LDAP involved... -- Lindsay Druett lindsay(a)wired.net.nz http://www.wired.net.nz Everyone in New Zealand should have a choice of which phone company and/or high speed broadband Internet Service Provider they use. http://www.LLU.wired.net.nz

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ANNOUNCEMENT: Annual General Meeting, 13 Sep
by Craig Box 09 Aug '04

09 Aug '04

In accordance with Rule 6 of the charter, I would like to formally announce that the Waikato Linux Users Group (Incorporated) will be holding its Annual General Meeting on Monday, 13 September, 2004, at 7pm, at the Crawshaw School Hall (the same location as the Installfest.) As our financial year ends on 31 August, please note that membership "ends" on this date and 2005 membership dues will be collected starting at the AGM. Voting rights at the AGM are granted to "those people who were paid members in the previous financial year and who have signed a membership form for the next financial year". Regards, Craig

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Next Metting: XBOX & Linux ...
by Drew Broadley 05 Aug '04

05 Aug '04

So, I just want to find out to whom is going to come what you would like to find out in addition to the following: How to Mod an XBOX: Brief. (Software and Hardware) Xbox and Linux Web/File/Media Server Distros Opensource Software and the XBOX Xbox Media Center + more Feel free to suggest any more then the following if you wish for myself to give a brief but informative rundown Cheers, Drew Broadley

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connection to a router
by John 05 Aug '04

05 Aug '04

A bit of advice please. I have an IHUG wireless connection which I can get working fine when I plug the connection straight into my Ethernet card and use an ADSL connection. However, I have a netgear router which I am using between my computers and the net. When I try and set up a network connection with this, I am choosing "Ethernet connection" - it recognises the card but when I try and activate it says 3c501 device does not seem to be present. How do I go about setting my computer up to speak to my router? Cheers John

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Fedora CDs Request
by Mark Grimshaw 31 Jul '04

31 Jul '04

Hi all, Is anyone able to supply Fedora CDs? Ideally at the university so I can pick them up tomorrow. If so, give me a room number, time to be there and no. CDs to replace. Thanks. Mark Grimshaw.

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GRUB woes
by Mark Grimshaw 31 Jul '04

31 Jul '04

Hi all, I recently upgraded hardware (m'board, CPU, video, RAM etc.) on the system that I've been using dual/boot/GRUB (W2K and, recently RH9) for the last 2 years. Knowing I would have to reinstall the OSs, I installed W2K first then RH9. Unfortunately, I seem to have misplaced GRUB and the system simply goes straight to the W2K boot up. With RH9 installations, I've never been able to make a floppy at the end of the install process (seems to be either a RH9 'feature' or the kernel is too large for the floppy) but have always made the boot floppy from within linux. So, I'm unable to boot linux from this imaginary floppy. My previous RH9 boot floppy clearly has the wrong kernel for the new hardware and I can't load that (both boot floppies I have). I've lost count of the number of times I've reinstalled RH9 in the last few days or chosen the upgrade option from the CD each time trying some different combination of boot loader (including trying to go back to LILO). I've even tried sticking GRUB and LILO on the MBR rather than the boot partition. I have Tom's rtboot and a GRUB floppy both of which run. From these, including the RH9/boot CD/linux rescue option, I've tried grub-install options and grub commandline (root (hd1,0); setup (hd1)) options - each time I get an installed successfully message but each boot, up comes Windows. I have two HDs: W2K (inc. linux swap) on hda LINUX: /dev/hdb3 / /dev/hdb1 /boot I know most HOWTOs state that the linux boot should be on the same hard drive as the windows OS but these are the partitions I've been successfully dual-booting from with GRUB for the past 2 years. I have no more hair left to tear out - please help. Mark.

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This install howto is Literally from hell
by Gavin Denby 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

Just in case you have a had a day as stress filled as mine and need a chuckle, and assuming you can get your hands on a mac http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml After all it does take a special kind of geek to get linux running on a dead badger. Have a surreal day

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RE: [wlug] This install howto is Literally from hell
by Lindsay Druett 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

Well, this is definitely food for discussion with audiophiles around the place, especially musso's... But firstly cooling is not an issue anymore where some ATX P4 cases come provisioned for up to six fans, maybe more, and fans are $ 10.00 each from PB Tech. For the see through cases with neon lights, LEDs, etc, etc, etc, you now have the glow... But the reality, and this appeals to me, is that the sound output is a lot mellower, even harmonics, and a better quality sound all round, especially at the lower end of the sound spectrum. I found eight models of A-Open motherboards with the "TubeSound" feature. It also depends what you are hooking into. If it was my Yamaha amp for home theatre, then nah - I want Dolby Digital/DTS input for the 5.1 (6 Channel) input. But for the NAD setup with two channel listening, then that would be just awesome... Just my some thoughts.... Good find Bruce... > -----Original Message----- > From: zcat [mailto:zcat(a)wired.net.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 29 July 2004 23:41 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] This install howto is Literally from hell > > > I've never really understood what's remotely funny about that page. > > OTOH, this > (http://english.aopen.com.tw/products/mb/ax4b-533tube.htm) is > funny. And apparently real. > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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Re: [wlug] The Burning Desktop issue.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 26 Jul '04

26 Jul '04

PHEW! Did I ask a question? So I should not ask about different distibutions I guess. Thanks for the opinions all, I will try to sort out the information. Regards John.. ----- Original Message Follows ----- > The simple answer is Gavin, you know nothing about > computers and you are stuck in front of the computer and > told to view a web page, does the desktop lend itself to > making it shit easy to launch a browser? > > Is the desktop intuitive? if it needs to much thought to > figure it out, its not a good desktop. > > Will it adapt? and is it simple to adapt? > > Will it support non visual forms of I/O? > > If it needs a super computer to execute then it is not a > good desktop, so is it scale-able? > > KISS! > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

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The Burning Desktop issue.
by Gavin Denby 26 Jul '04

26 Jul '04

As I come to the end of my Live CD evaluations, (Yours left today Oliver, sorry it took so long) I have found myself asking a really interesting question of what makes a good desktop. Naturally the best answer is "one that does what the user wants it to do." the problem is what does the average desktop user want to do ? In a sort of applied way, I used to sell cellphones, and people would come in and ask for a good deal on a cellphone, and the traditional sales role was here is model on special for ... model B if you more features. I alway started with the question, what are you wanting to do with it who will be using it, and how many calls will it receive and make. then I cold tailor the best package for the user, I also sold the most car and truck phones (installed) of any rep, and had a strong business clientelle. They needed tools, not cheep phones. Later I would get people asking my advice on buying a laptop, my question was the same, what do you want to do with it, where do you plan to use it, is battery life or speed and graphics your goal. PC's are flexible tools, My father in law's pc is used for genealogy, writes document files, e-mail and Internet and plays solitaire. My wifes sister, surfs the net and uses chat software, while her son plays games and only games. My wife does spreadsheets, makes sewing graphics for her janome, so she users her scanner, downloads images/video her digital camera and firewire camcorder and makes movies with this, she also also creates musical soundtracks with live instruments, writes music scores and of course also uses it for e-mail and web surfing. of course it all need printing. I hack software (with permission of course) develop electronic circuits, generate code for Microcontrollers, write manuals, test software , re-write manuals keep track of work flow, run a bug track system, manage servers, mange remote systems by short life dial up connections. Update my ipaq and handle huge amounts of e-mail including tech support. A lot of printing, a little video and very really some scanning. Oh and I move around a lot , so I am wireless. My son plays games ...... oh yeah, he surfs the net to get patches for his games too ......... Nah thats it he plays Games. So what is an average user ??? ..... Maybe someone who can use and average desktop. Circular logic ??? Maybe thats why there is so much of a problem with deciding on a desktop distro. so here is my take based on a newbie with a first PC. E-Mail with an easy to set up pop client Web Browser with Flash, shockwave and Java either installed, or easy to do so. Document writer that can output a word document (possibly powerpoint if you are a student... they always ask for this) IM Client AOL and MSN IRC software P2P software, (I hate it ...but lets be real) Easy to setup dial up to an isp or Basic adsl options. (get a router ... Grrrrr ) Printer support Basic games (solitaire) Digital Camera support Play Music CD's Play MP3's An easy to use volume control. The ability to find and install software that suits their interests .. E.G genealogy software, and preferably with a description of what the software will do. Access to help and/or support forums that are easy to use. A Simple guide to getting started. An Instruction Manual .. so they can loose it before anyone reads it. Let me know if I missed anything obvious that would be a must have. but based on this, any of the distros commented on here would do this, and do it well. so at the end of the day it comes down to the user experience, and the general feel of the interface. Naturally Windows users will look for familiarity in the interface, Mac users aren't so fussy but have their own likes and dislikes. Linux users will just modify it to what they want. Boot time matters a little, as most users shut the machine down, and run it up when they want to use it, but the responsiveness of the desktop probably matters more, it should have a nice snappy feel. The biggest issue will be what happens when our newbie plugs his/her digital camera in, will it work? is it hard to use. Trust me .. command line will really cause an issue here. Then it will be adding some new software. I've already said what I plan to test so far, And I have added cobind to the mix as it seemed to be a suitable candidate for a fedora desktop. But its hard to come up with really objective test methodologies as I would have to know what an average user is ... and here we go again .... -- "Engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance." Dr A R Dykes.

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RE: [wlug] Suse Live CD
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 26 Jul '04

26 Jul '04

I had a look at the review on this distro, From what I read, it seems ideal for a newbie.The only negative comments I found was that dvd movie play can be a real hassle to set up.. Boot time is a little longer than some other distros but that is not really so important is it? If anyone has got this distro installed I would like to see some opinion/critique, also if you are a new user or a seasoned Linuxer. Regards John.. > > Hey Gund, > > I loaded SuSE onto my desktop here at Uni. > What an awesome distro... > Very easy to load up. Thanks again. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gund Wehsling > > [mailto:Gund.Wehsling(a)computerland.co.nz] Sent: > > Thursday, 22 July 2004 13:09 To: Waikato Linux Users > > Group Subject: RE: [wlug] Suse Live CD > > > > > > Hi > > > > I am in Collingwood street and have good copies of both > > the live 9.1 and > > personal 9.1 install. > > > > I am quite busy during the day, but will make copies on > > a swap for a blank basis. Mail me off list for contact > > details and when and where. > > Rgds > > > > > > > > Gund > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wayne Rooney [mailto:wrooney(a)ihug.co.nz] > > Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 1:27 a.m. > > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > > Subject: Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD > > > > > > >finally got the iso, but its bad > > > > >redownoading but at least tomorrow before its here , so > > if anyone else > > has it ...... > > > > A tip for the future. If you've got a bad iso, find an > > rsync mirror and > > use > > rsync to repair it. Much quicker that re-downloading an > > entire iso. > > Wayne > > > > _______________________________________________ > > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Unsubscribe: > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > _______________________________________________ > > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Unsubscribe: > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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SuSE and Novell
by Gund Wehsling 26 Jul '04

26 Jul '04

Hi There have been some comments about SuSE in the last day or two and here is what I can tell you from a Novell point of view and I hope this will shed some light. Most of this is from reading between the lines. I am no LINUX pro either, I am a NetWare specialist (although novell had better ideas than to employ me), though I am following Novell through this "very difficult period" ;-) SuSE 9.1 personal is designed for home users who want to send and recieve mail, use thier printers, scanners, see the internet and write the odd spreadsheet and letter. That is why it is so simple and installs easily off one disc with no fuss. It is slow to start compared to other distros, but you will notice the kernel is about 1.8MB (on my machine) and for this reason it also auto detects nicely and the 'home' components work well for most machines. If you wanted to be a power user or compile your own kernel, perhaps 9.1 Pro is for you. I see that Novell now offers this as a free FTP install from thier site, something SuSE never did. If you want a server, then Novell recommends you use SuSE server 8.0, another free download, although limited time (90 day). I have been told it will cost about $650 per server (not per processor) to license. It is really, really easy to install and setup and really easy to integrate into other products. Example would be the demo I went to installed Standard edition, then eDirectory, then migrated users from Win/NetWare, setup Samba, in less than two hours, from blank hardware, the users where able to sign in and get to thier home directories. Obviously the copying of thier data will take longer. eDirectory is free too! I would like to step out and make an observation here that may cause the throwing of some chairs, but please bear with me. I would like to stress the importance of SuSE, perhaps not as the next big technological be all for everybody, but as the bleeding edge of a business model so many open source people have hoped for for a long time now. Novell is a large commercial concern and they are possible putting more than everything into the development and distribution of this OS than has been done before. Perhaps it is not the best distro there for you, but they are working in a commercial field now, so demographics and averages play a big part here. It is not likely to be the most powerful desktop in the market and it may have proprietry or non-compatible elements to what you are used to, but that is what change is about. Something new is good, even if it is something challenging or different. Please understand that Novell has large overheads (apart fom marketing open source software), so they cannot exist by giving away free software that meets all the needs and requirements of everybody and open source licensing prevents them from completely modifying everything. So, to generate income, they have produced products like NLS and ported most of thier existing application to LINUX. This creates not only viable and sustainable business migration paths, but also show big business that it is possible to do everything they need for less, better, with a well established and reliable software/server vendor. There is a state of mind in big business that free software fails and is dificult to support. Novell is working really hard to disspell this. If you are in the integrator market, you will see that Novell is handing out heaps of free training and publicity to push this. Try it thoroughly before you knock it, if it is not for you, then try something else. This is where I will be though. Throw your chairs. I have a copy of SuSE 8.0 limited time server if you are interested in showing your customer something new. I can make copies, over the weekends only though. Have fun and go easy when you flame me, I am new here. gund

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WLUG Meeting is tonight
by Meeting Reminder bot 25 Jul '04

25 Jul '04

The WLUG meeting is this evening ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Introduction to Linux and Network Security. A fairly high-level discussion of various aspects of security, looking at topics such as: * Firewalls * Network Address Translation ([NAT]) * De-militirized zones ([DMZ]s) * Virtual Private Networks ([VPN]s) and [IPSec] * Secure Sockets Layer ([SSL]) Location: CrawshawSchool Time: 7pm Doors will be open from ten to seven or so, presentation will start shortly after 7.

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Peer to peer?
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 25 Jul '04

25 Jul '04

I was hoping to get a file sharing program then Try Gnutella for some mpeg/ogg files. What application should I use for this and can I "yum install <nameofapp>" and join the file share deal? Regards John

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Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD let me down, so I seek a better desktop.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 25 Jul '04

25 Jul '04

Thank you for explaining kvm. My interest is mainly in the hard drive install, I have a live c/d version of Knoppix. Regards John.. > KVM is Keyboard Video Mouse switching > > It allows me to have 2 PC's working on the same monitor > and keyboard, they worked fine, but it missed the mouse. > I have seen that before too. > > Also I only looked at the live CD whie the other report > was a 9.1 hard drive install, a whole different CD. > > I will be installing it later. _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD let me down, so I seek a better desktop.
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 25 Jul '04

25 Jul '04

I look forward to the results being posted with much interest ----- Original Message Follows ----- > I'm playing with a number of distros as I want to find an > ideal little distro that is as easy as pie for a newbie. This is what I am looking for also.. > I tried the live CD, and ... how do i say it nicely. .... > not a pretty experience, 2 machines wouldn't even boot to > X, and the third did but no mouse, (I think the KVM > switch might have upset something,) I wonder why in the space of a posting the o/s goes from awesome (lindsay) to the result that you found. I have no idea what the "kvm" switch is or does. Regards John.. > >>I loaded SuSE onto my desktop here at Uni. > >>What an awesome distro... > >>Very easy to load up. Thanks again. > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 24 Jul '04

24 Jul '04

Thanks Aristotle, I did read that page prior to writing and note the comments. I was however hoping they were a little out of date and/or some more people had become interested in ver 9.1 as the thread implied. Regards John > See http://www.wlug.org.nz/Suse which is mostly my doing. > > Regards, > -- > Aristotle > "If you can't laugh at yourself, you don't take life > seriously enough." > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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RE: [wlug] Suse Live CD
by Lindsay Druett 23 Jul '04

23 Jul '04

Hey Gund, I loaded SuSE onto my desktop here at Uni. What an awesome distro... Very easy to load up. Thanks again. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gund Wehsling [mailto:Gund.Wehsling(a)computerland.co.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 13:09 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: RE: [wlug] Suse Live CD > > > Hi > > I am in Collingwood street and have good copies of both the > live 9.1 and > personal 9.1 install. > > I am quite busy during the day, but will make copies on a swap for a > blank basis. Mail me off list for contact details and when and where. > > Rgds > > > > Gund > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne Rooney [mailto:wrooney(a)ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 1:27 a.m. > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD > > > >finally got the iso, but its bad > > >redownoading but at least tomorrow before its here , so if > anyone else > has it ...... > > A tip for the future. If you've got a bad iso, find an rsync > mirror and > use > rsync to repair it. Much quicker that re-downloading an entire iso. > > Wayne > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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WLUG Meeting is on monday
by Meeting Reminder bot 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

The WLUG meeting is on monday ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Introduction to Linux and Network Security. A fairly high-level discussion of various aspects of security, looking at topics such as: * Firewalls * Network Address Translation ([NAT]) * De-militirized zones ([DMZ]s) * Virtual Private Networks ([VPN]s) and [IPSec] * Secure Sockets Layer ([SSL]) Location: CrawshawSchool Time: 7pm Doors will be open from ten to seven or so, presentation will start shortly after 7.

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RE: [wlug] Re: @jetstreamgames.co.nz
by Chris Day 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

>>I got model XH7916 with software version Rel9v3. Is it worth it to upgrade to >>a later version? Hi Felix. The short answer is yes. As a similar question has been raised in the NZADSL Mailing list, and as the question is more ADSL related than Linux, I'll post the specific advantages there for all to see. Regards, Chris...

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RE: [wlug] Re: @jetstreamgames.co.nz
by Ross Hamblin 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

But don't forget to write down your current settings first :) Ross Hamblin DSE (NZ) Ltd. > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Day > Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 14:47 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: RE: [wlug] Re: @jetstreamgames.co.nz > > > The latest firmware (Rel9v4 & Rel9v5) defaults DSE ADSL > Routers (XH79156, XH1149 & XH1169) to log on to > Jetstreamgames by default. If you are using one of these > firmware versions, simply choose the 'restore factory > settings' option. > Regards, Chis Day - DSE(NZ)Ltd. > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

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RE: [wlug] Re: @jetstreamgames.co.nz
by Chris Day 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

The latest firmware (Rel9v4 & Rel9v5) defaults DSE ADSL Routers (XH79156, XH1149 & XH1169) to log on to Jetstreamgames by default. If you are using one of these firmware versions, simply choose the 'restore factory settings' option. Regards, Chis Day - DSE(NZ)Ltd.

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RE: [wlug] Suse Live CD
by Gund Wehsling 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

Hi I am in Collingwood street and have good copies of both the live 9.1 and personal 9.1 install. I am quite busy during the day, but will make copies on a swap for a blank basis. Mail me off list for contact details and when and where. Rgds Gund -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Rooney [mailto:wrooney(a)ihug.co.nz] Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 1:27 a.m. To: Waikato Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD >finally got the iso, but its bad >redownoading but at least tomorrow before its here , so if anyone else has it ...... A tip for the future. If you've got a bad iso, find an rsync mirror and use rsync to repair it. Much quicker that re-downloading an entire iso. Wayne _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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SCO flops in DaimlerChrysler Unix lawsuit
by Gavin Denby 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

Breaking news. In a hearing Wednesday, Judge Rae Lee Chabot of Oakland County Circuit Court in Michigan granted most of DaimlerChrysler's motion to dismiss the case, SCO and DaimlerChrysler representatives said. The loss doesn't set a precedent, but it does make it harder for SCO to pursue its overall case, said Mark Radcliffe <http://dw.com.com/redir?destUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gcwf.com%2Fgcc%2FGrayCary-…>, an intellectual-property attorney at Gray Cary. "The more that SCO is unsuccessful in its claims, the more it decreases their ability to go out and use the threat of litigation to obtain settlements," he said. "It diminishes their credibility." Full story at: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5278572.html But I still ask .. "What credibility did SCO ever have in these cases? I guess the dominoes will start to fall now, so we will all be able to get back to what we do well...... Oh thats right, we never really stopped anyway did we. -- "Engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance." Dr A R Dykes - 2003

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Network Problem (SuSE 9.1)
by Felix Hohener 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

I have just installed SuSE for the first time, including the firewall. The computer is connected to a small home network with 3 other Windows machines. I am trying to access the Windows machines, however, I get the error message "unable to find any workgroups". I can ping the machines and print via the the Windows machine. If I turn the firewall off, I can browse the network. If I turn the firewall on again after doing the browse, I am still able to access the Windows machines on the network. What do I need to change, so it sees the network without having to go through turning off/on the firewall each time I boot up? Thanks --- Felix

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Re: [wlug] Suse Live CD
by Wayne Rooney 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

>finally got the iso, but its bad >redownoading but at least tomorrow before its here , so if anyone else has it ...... A tip for the future. If you've got a bad iso, find an rsync mirror and use rsync to repair it. Much quicker that re-downloading an entire iso. Wayne

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Committee meeting minutes
by Craig Box 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

Hi everyone, Another month, another committee meeting; to check we're all worthy of re-election in the upcoming (September) AGM, check out the minutes at http://www.wlug.org.nz/CommitteeMeetingTopics.2004-07-21. Also, I've wikied Gavin's summary of the DSE computer expo at http://www.wlug.org.nz/DickSmithElectronicsComputerExpo. Regards, Secretary Reminder Bot

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DSE powerhouse - Read the Book, Saw the Movie, Got the T-Shirt
by Gavin Denby 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

May I offer my hearty congratulations to all those who both helped out and those who popped in and said hi, hundreds of Open Office CD's as well as Knoppix /morphix CD's were given away, Many people had a first look at open source, and Hundreds of WLUG brochures were taken by interested people. DSE staff tell me they had a really good weekend with PC sales, and the response from staff was that it went well and they felt positive about doing something like it again. (They Had some good specials so I dont think we get the credit for this) Sunday saw Bruce bring in the OS Revolution video which was played on a PC in store, It got a lot of interest, and helped us move CD's and flyers. Also Bruce and family set up some addictive games and got the kids playing, as a result there will be a lot of new frozen bubble players wanting to boot up linux for another game. I found people very responsive, and pleased to know that there was some choice in NZ, they were also very keen to realize that Kiwi's were involved in Linux and Open Source projects, and that we had a group here in the Waikato. It was a very pleasant way to spend a day. A lot of people also were very interested in the more technical aspects of linux, and what it could do, and some with older PC's were pleased to learn of projects such as Feather and other minimal Linux's for their boxes. We also discussed hardware, and what would work best in a linux/windows PC. Staff asked us to assist with questions, and seemed happy to have our experience and independence there for customers to bounce ideas off. In short, if there was a PC question on Linux, we probably heard it. Great work team. We showed the best face to the community, and came across well. You earned your shirts, wear them with pride. Thanks also to Chris and Ross from DSE for allowing us to be involved, we hope that DSE and their Customers got as much from the weekend as we did. Also well done Daniel and the rest of the committee for organizing all this and making is flow for those of us who did a shift. I'm going to bed now with a new respect for those in retail who are on their feet all day, and spend all day trying to help people with their problems. Again well done to all who gave up time to help out. Look out for new sign ups to the mail list.

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Suse Live CD
by Oliver Jones 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

Howdy Guys I've always wanted to have a look at SuSE but don't have too much time to frig around installing it etc so the Live CD version looks like the ideal plaything. Anyone got a copy of this? I'd rather not give Telecom more money than it deserves and on business ADSL they really ask us to bend over. So if someone is willing to send me a copy I would be most appreciative. Regards -- Oliver Jones » Director » oliver(a)deeperdesign.com » +64 (21) 41 2238 Deeper Design Limited » +64 (7) 377 3328 » www.deeperdesign.com

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FW: [wlug] Linux Distro comments
by Chris Day 20 Jul '04

20 Jul '04

I'm working on over 30 new products on for the retail channel. We are just working on a RealTek Gigabit PCI NIC. Plugged it into a box with FC2 loaded and spent another 15~20 min getting FC2 to work with the card. Its a multiboot desktop - so tried MDK 10 & MDK 9.2 - they both detected the card and autoconfigured it. My point is not how we went about it or other technical things to do with various distro's. We look at things from a consumers point of view - have to, we get the calls when it doesn't work. Mandrake will, 8 times out of 10, work with many of the products that just should work with Linux. Actually, Knoppix is pretty good also - between the 2 of them, we can generally get most of the tings that should work, to go. To put it another way, if I have to spend the companies money on development in getting a device going with a distro, I'll chose the latest edition of Mandrake knowing that we will also be able to get it working with Knoppix once we have nailed MDK. My 2c Regards, Chris...

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FW: MYOB Accounting Package Registration
by lindsay 20 Jul '04

20 Jul '04

Come on gang... Surely there's someone else who uses MYOB... Let's make the market big enough to justify a Linux release... -----Original Message----- From: Jamie_Macintosh(a)myob.co.nz [mailto:Jamie_Macintosh(a)myob.co.nz] On Behalf Of sales(a)myob.co.nz Sent: Monday, 19 July 2004 15:26 To: Lindsay Druett Subject: Re: MYOB Accounting Package Registration Hi Lindsay As fare as I'm aware there are no plans to make the product work on a linux based system, Unfortunately there is just not a big enough market to justify a linux release. Thank you, Kind regards, MYOB Sales Advice Phone: 0800 60 69 62 Fax: 0800 94 96 96 Email: sales(a)myob.co.nz http://www.myob.co.nz Lindsay Druett <lindsay(a)wired.net.nz> 16/07/2004 09:36 p.m. To: sales(a)myob.co.nz cc: Subject: Re: MYOB Accounting Package Registration Another question... Is there any plans to develop MYOB so that it runs on a Linux platform (using X-Windows such as KDE, Gnome, etc) as well as Microsoft Windows ? sales(a)myob.co.nz wrote: > > Dear Lindsay > > Thanks for your email, > > We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we are working on the > website issues regarding registrations, I however will forward this on > to the appropriate persons. > > Thank you for your insite, > > Kind regards, > MYOB Sales Advice > Phone: 0800 60 69 62 > Fax: 0800 94 96 96 > Email: sales(a)myob.co.nz > http://www.myob.co.nz > > > > > >

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Re: Re: [Fwd: [wlug] Yoper V2 final released]
by Stephen Pearce 19 Jul '04

19 Jul '04

Sorry to bother you again, Could I send my Hamilton mate around to you to pick up that modem and the Yoper cd please .. if so .. what phone number and/or address shall I give him? Thanks Stephen > > From: Gavin Denby <redhat(a)ihug.co.nz> > Date: 2004/07/15 Thu PM 10:01:46 GMT+12:00 > To: pearce(a)ieee.org, > Waikato Linux Users Group <wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Subject: Re: [Fwd: [wlug] Yoper V2 final released] > > Pulling it now from the nz website > > should be here in a couple of hours. > > I'll be onsite at dse in hamilton on sunday 10-4. if you wanted to pick > it up. saves postage > > > > Stephen Pearce wrote: > > Has anyone downloaded this to cd .. > > I recently tried to down load from the nz web site > > but was unsuccessful .. possibly due to internal > > problems from the site I was trying to dl from .. > > is there anyone who would make me a copy .. I pay/ > > refund media and postage costs > > tnx > > Stephen > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

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RE: [wlug] DSE powerhouse - Read the Book, Saw the Movie, Got theT-Shirt
by Gund Wehsling 19 Jul '04

19 Jul '04

Hi For home users who are not LINUX friendly or technical, I would like to highly recommend SUSE 9.1 Personal. Single CD install, detects all my 'funny' hardware at home, no complicated install Q's, has simple desktop with a browser, mail client, OOo. Can be mistaken for XP by the untrained eye. My apologies if this has been covered before, I am new to this list. It is a free download from www.novell.com. Just my 0.02c -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] Sent: Monday, 19 July 2004 1:13 p.m. To: Waikato Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [wlug] DSE powerhouse - Read the Book, Saw the Movie, Got theT-Shirt Update to my last. I popped into DSE today to sort out some final bits, and on the way home called in to the PC company, they are selling off a lot of old stock and new machines, bit all are OS free, Apparently, many people object to paying the $150.00 tax to Microsoft when all they want to do surf the net,e-mail and type the odd letter. Many are asking about linux, we discussed the usual modem issues, but as they can get and sell some cheep serial modem to overcome this I think there may be plan developing. Anyway I am dropping off some copies of the WLUG brochure, and taking some distros in, and we will look at the possibility of me preloading some machines for them. I am thinking Knoppix for testing devices, mandrake for new users (lots of software) I wonder about fedora, and maybe Xandros community as these will show up at lug meetings looking for a ... how do I .... ??? I also would consider Yoper/CollegeLinux /Debian .. in fact anything that will work as long as the support is there either from the wider community or the LUG, but I suspect many people will want to bring these to a lug meeting, rather than use a forum, at least at the beginning. I know we just did an installfest, so what was the experience, and what would be a good distro for a new user, if the Lug is to offer support. Its the last part ... Helping the new user, that is of most concern. I pushed WLUG as an issue, since there will be a learning curve. I would appreciate helpful comments here, but the tide is turning, and people are looking for a Linux for their home PC. Its time to see if We are ready to step up to the Plate. This is not an excuse for a distro war, rather a chance to say what we can help new users with. Gavin Denby wrote: > May I offer my hearty congratulations to all those who both helped out > and those who popped in and said hi, hundreds of Open Office CD's as > well as Knoppix /morphix CD's were given away, Many people had a first > look at open source, and Hundreds of WLUG brochures were taken by > interested people. > > _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Re: [wlug] Linux Distro comments
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 19 Jul '04

19 Jul '04

I made the micro$ comment in ignorance. My apologies. Regards John ----- Original Message Follows ----- > * Greig McGill <greig(a)hamiltron.net> [2004-07-19 12:34]: > > Please quit with the "MickeySoft" and micro$oft. > > We are a group who lists advocacy as one of its goals. > > Good advocates do not descend to name calling. > > Thank you for saying it.

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Re: [wlug] DSE powerhouse - Read the Book, Saw the Movie, Got the T-Shirt
by jaytee＠clear.net.nz 19 Jul '04

19 Jul '04

Hi All, Might as well add my own views. The first Linux I started was Mandrake 9.2 It nearly installed properly on the fourth install (due to user incompetence) I liked what The programme did but found it difficult to find information that I could relate to when I needed to install or amend some thing. Shortly after I went to the install fest and installed the fedora core 1 system. This was frought with problems even the people at the meeting were not able to resolve all the issues so I waited for Fedora core 2 Which is now installed. I think that if I was not so determined to eventually figure this out (even if I do have to nag you guys to death :)) I would have returned to the micro$ fold by now. However I am still dual booting windows/fedora The problem I see is that of dumbing down linux will attract even more dopey sods like myself So you need to be able to have a simple programme that can be supported by most of you... ----- Original Message Follows ----- > Jonathan Purvis wrote: > > > I'd recommend against new users running Debian (dispite > > my running in at work and home) for the following > reasons: > > > * Unstable is unstable[1] and stable is very out of > date at the moment > > > * X configuration is horrible/non-existant > > * If you forget to load the module for your network > > card early on in the installer, it won't ask you for > > network configuration and you'll have to spend half an > > hour hunting down the required configuration files * > dselect lets you remove dpkg > > I'd tend to agree with these points, I personally run > debian and and had forgotten these things as stuff long > gone but from a new user these are quite possibly > relative points. > > That being said some of these points may not be such an > issue on a pre-installed machine > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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DSE powerhouse - A huge thank you to all
by Chris Day 19 Jul '04

19 Jul '04

On behalf of DSE(NZ)Ltd, I wish to express our appreciation to those who participated in the recent DSE Powerhouse weekend. Our goal was to provide consumers (and staff) with an overview of what GNU/OpenSource is all about. Despite the lack of forward advise and some planning on our part, I believe this was a job well done by the participants and all those others who offered online support & advise - it is really great to see such enthusiasm. From our perspective, the demand for software like GNU/Linux & OpenOffice is building steadily and it really is great to see community involvement like this. We wish you all the best in your future endeavors and are here to offer assistance where we can. Kind regards, Chris Day Senior Buyer DSE(NZ)Ltd

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Speed Comparison between 23 distros
by Andreas Girardet 17 Jul '04

17 Jul '04

Hello fellow NZLinuxers Here a post of the results of the comparison between 23 distros on speed and many more categories. http://www.yoper.com/forum2/index.php?showtopic=953 Here a little ranking http://www.yoper.com/comparison/desktopcomparison.html Hope you'll enjoy it. Cheers Andreas

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Re: DSE Powerhouse this weekend.
by Gavin Denby 16 Jul '04

16 Jul '04

For those helping at the powerhouse, and those who will be popping in to save some money or just chat. For those that gave me shirt sizes, I have some good news. Barring a major catastrophe, we will have some shirts tomorrow, In spite of the limited time, My wife has made a very neat Embroidered Silver, Black and Yellow/Orange Tux and beneath that the letters WLUG in large friendly black cotton. She would have liked more time to improve the stitching, but it works anyway IMHO. The shirt is a polo (collared) Grey in colour and should go with anything you wear. (also it was the only suitable shirt the warehouse had, and I'm cheep, so sue me. For those that didn't give me a size we have one large and one medium size extra, But there are only 5 shirts in total, so If you missed the roster, you missed the boat I have a darker Grey shirt with the same stitching, so we should make it. and look darn close to a team. I'm sure DSE will have a place for us to change shirts. I'll drop off a box tomorrow AM, first thing, so we can have them on site. ... And one last thing, can we have camera's there too, this should definitely be posted to the wiki and there should be some nice photos of Lug members working with the public. See you all over the next 2 days. .. SO GET SOME REST !!! John R. McPherson wrote: >On Fri, Jul 16, 2004 at 06:00:16PM +1200, Daniel Lawson wrote: > > >>So, here's the current roster, as I have it >> >> >> >>>Daniel Sat 10 - 1 >>>Matt Sat 12 - 4 >>>Perry Sat 11 - 4 >>>Gavin Sun 10 - 4 >>>John sometime on Sunday ? >>>Bruce Sun 12 - 4 >>> >>> > >Ok, in that case I'll go down on Sunday just before 10 to keep Gavin >company :) I'll stay until it's not busy, or Gavin and Bruce get >sick of me. > > > >>DSE have printed off ~400 or 800 copies of the attached doc. >> >> > >heh, that sounds like a lot! Oh well... > >John > >

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[Fwd: [wlug] Yoper V2 final released]
by Stephen Pearce 15 Jul '04

15 Jul '04

Has anyone downloaded this to cd .. I recently tried to down load from the nz web site but was unsuccessful .. possibly due to internal problems from the site I was trying to dl from .. is there anyone who would make me a copy .. I pay/ refund media and postage costs tnx Stephen

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FW: [NZOSS-OpenChat] WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Ross Hamblin 15 Jul '04

15 Jul '04

Further to my message below, we are trying to get an idea of numbers who will be assisting, is it possible to get a list of those intending to attend over the weekend? Alternatively, could those who will be attending mail me off-list and advise which days and times you are planning to be there, and whether you are from WLUG or NZOSS. Thanks, Ross. -----Original Message----- From: Ross Hamblin Sent: Friday, 9 July 2004 16:03 To: openchat(a)nzoss.org.nz; wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: [NZOSS-OpenChat] WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend Thanks to all who offered to attend and assist with this. For those who asked about timetables, we would like to have people present to offer advise and demonstrate OSS/Linux between 10am and 4pm on Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th July. As it is difficult to make extra space, we will need to use the computers on display in the store which will mean using Knoppix or similar distro which runs from CD. We will be giving away free Open Office.org and Knoppix CDs to customers who attend. We will be advertising this event in the newspaper and it would be good to include your logos if possible, please advise on this or send to me off-list. We also have facilities to photocopy A4 DLE type brochures if you provide me with a PDF or OO.o doc of your brochure we can produce them for you. Regards, Ross. Ross Hamblin DSE (NZ) Ltd. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: openchat-unsubscribe(a)nzoss.org.nz For additional commands, e-mail: openchat-help(a)nzoss.org.nz

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Help with BIOS geometry
by John 14 Jul '04

14 Jul '04

I have loaded a dual boot up system several times, but I recently had my motherboard and harddrive replaced and this time the installation program came up with "unable to align partition correctly, this probably m,eans that another partition tool generated an incorrect partition table because it didnt have the correct BIOS geometry. It is safe to ignor, but ignoring may cause (fixable) problems with some boot loaders" Bloody hell, I "ignored and ended up not being able to boot the computer at all. It did not recognise the c-drive I have since reloaded windows from scratch (my linux partition is on a separate hard drive - but I cannot access it). How can I fix this problem with my BIOS? THanks John

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DSE store this weekend
by Gavin Denby 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

In the absence of any replies to my prior offers, I need to know if there is a list of who is one when at DSE, or if any of us are needed at all I must decide by 4pm if I am free to take paid work this Saturday. I offered to help at DSE if required first, and will stand by that if so asked, but at 4pm my offer turns into Cinderellas pumpkin. do you have all the help you need, or have I missed some mail here. DO you want my help with this or are you ok ?? I need to respond to the AK team by 4pm today, so if a committee member handling this could comment it would really help.

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by David Nicholls 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

"WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend ...between 10am and 4pm on Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th July... ...giving away free Open Office.org and Knoppix CDs to customers who attend. We will be advertising this event in the newspaper and it would be good to include your logos if possible..." We are sending in the troups to help out :) Cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Gund Wehsling [mailto:Gund.Wehsling(a)computerland.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 14 July 2004 11:12 am Hi A quick Q from a newbie to your board. I did look elsewhere and found no info. What is happening at DSE this weekend, relative to this list, in 25 words or less ;-) Thanks Gund

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by Gund Wehsling 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

Hi A quick Q from a newbie to your board. I did look elsewhere and found no info. What is happening at DSE this weekend, relative to this list, in 25 words or less ;-) Thanks Gund -----Original Message----- From: David Nicholls [mailto:davidn(a)waikato.ac.nz] Sent: Wed 14/07/2004 09:11 To: Waikato Linux Users Group Cc: Subject: RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend No, in fact I took a look at the links to the products posted in an email ealier and everything is the latest version... Hot off the web it seems. Go take a look as the cds not only come with oo but mozilla and a number of other products (from what I can see all good basic needs products). Check them out. Cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 13 July 2004 8:54 pm Sounds like they can get a free one this Saturday , even though i suspect it will be ver 1.1.1 , if they use it its enough for a start. _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by David Nicholls 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

No, in fact I took a look at the links to the products posted in an email ealier and everything is the latest version... Hot off the web it seems. Go take a look as the cds not only come with oo but mozilla and a number of other products (from what I can see all good basic needs products). Check them out. Cheers... david -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 13 July 2004 8:54 pm Sounds like they can get a free one this Saturday , even though i suspect it will be ver 1.1.1 , if they use it its enough for a start.

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Proxy Authentication
by Terry Cole 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

We have just set up at school a Suse 9 Linux server. Apache 2, Squid 2.5. We are trying to get Proxy Authentication via Squid working and are having problems. We have created our ACL's, etc. We have a password file and have tried Pam and NCSA. The prompt appears asking for user and password but does not accept what we put in. I think it might not be talking to the password file. Any ideas on where and what we could check? Thanks Terry Cole Rotorua, New Zealand mailto:terry(a)cole.gen.nz http://www.cole.gen.nz http://www.websnz.com

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by Lindsay Druett 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

But then again, just think of all that extra hardware you can sell. More memory... A DVD writer instead of a CD writer... Hey, instead of Office Pro 2003 Open Bus (XS 9011), why not buy a second computer ? > -----Original Message----- > From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, 13 July 2004 15:16 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] DSE store this weekend > > > Sorry Chris > > Its official, You wont be making much money on sales of > Office XP this > weekend :-) >

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by Chris Day 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

>> Sorry Chris >> Its official, You wont be making much money on sales of Office XP this >> weekend :-) >> Hopefully the hardware sales will make up for it :-) :-)

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RE: [wlug] DSE store this weekend
by Chris Day 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

>From DSE's perspective, the event is still definitely on and the last I heard WLUG was keen to be present. Members of NZOSS will also be present. At DSE, Ross Hamblin and I have been coordinating stuff - in summary this Sat / Sun - 10am ~4pm. PC's will be present for you to load stuff on & were giving away OS CD's - see NZLUG or NZOSS lists for more details. Regards, Chris.. -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:06 PM To: Waikato Linux Users Group Subject: [wlug] DSE store this weekend In the absence of any replies to my prior offers, I need to know if there is a list of who is one when at DSE, or if any of us are needed at all I must decide by 4pm if I am free to take paid work this Saturday. I offered to help at DSE if required first, and will stand by that if so asked, but at 4pm my offer turns into Cinderellas pumpkin. do you have all the help you need, or have I missed some mail here. DO you want my help with this or are you ok ?? I need to respond to the AK team by 4pm today, so if a committee member handling this could comment it would really help. _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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kppp, wlan, phone modem and ? iptables
by Stephen Pearce 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

Hi And Help! Thanks for the advise re using ssh -X to run X11 remotely over a wlan. I would now like to activate the phone modem on the remote X11 server and then web browse from the laptop using the wlan. There must be some packet filtering occuring as I can log on to my isp whilist sitting at the server and ping external ip addresses and alos local (192.168.0.x addresses) i.e. local requests are somehow being caught and not forwarded over the ppp link to the isp but diverted into the lan. However if I ssh -X to the server from the laptop via the wlan then run kppp and dial the isp the connection goes thru but there must be some protocol problem as the link then collapses saying it cannot find ppp0. I presume this is all to do with packet filtering iptables and maybe ipchains .. an arcane area I do not fully understand and have yet to find a definitive howto which address the area in a way useful to my problem. I would appreciate any directions toward useful help.. Many thanks Stephen ps mozilla runs ok over the link but of course cannot access any links

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Re: Any Hints or Advice?
by David7 10 Jul '04

10 Jul '04

My thanks to all who responded. David wrote a few days ago >> I have just gone over, or come over, to Unix >> - Mandrake 10.0 they call it. It feels great. >> Are there any hints or advice for a new guy? Ari P > Learn to read documentation, including how to find it. > Not much more to answer to such a broadly stated question. D (If I were to read the documentation, I might actually get educated.) It is good advice. Unix is somewhere between an education and a way of thinking (or life), it seems. I have no specific question at present but I am going to have. My hometown was placed in the broadband zone recently, so soon I intend to move over to jetstream. I have applied to my ISP for it, and the hardware is going to be installed in my computer next week. When I do move over I just know there will be qs I can't handle. Also, accessing the web via a computer prog, preferably in Pascal rather than C, is something coming up. I don't know Perl nor Java, nor the jargon of this technique, nor where the problem overlaps Unix and wlug, nor even if it is possible in Pascal, But I won't ask these qs yet. FH > Using Linux fulltime only since last September (Gentoo), I know in a > way what you mean. I'd suggest to latch on to a very active Mandrake > forum which has a good searchable archive. D I haven't started looking for an MDK forum but it is something to do. GD > If you an get into Hamilton on a Monday night, > get along to the lug meetings. [snip] > you will build good friendships and strong networks. > Linux is more community than OS IMHO ..... And the OS really rocks. D My car is presently unreliable, but person to person contact is what I want. I want to go. The OS gives the impression of steady and stable. Several times I have had the computer on for ten hours, and it never got slower (like the old OS did) and it never froze. It is really a good feeling. LD > I strongly agree with Gavin. > Sounds like you have had a good start anyway. Not many people have > come to me saying "I have just installed (whatever) Linux on my machine > and it feels great", a lot of people have said, "I tried to get Linux > working on my machine, but I couldn't get it to work...", and a lot of > those people were IT professionals - they have got sucked in too deep > into the dark side. D I deliberately waited for Mandrake 10.0 (Official), and waited a bit more. It probably paid off. If I didn't have the specifc purpose of downloading, de-tarring, and installing a Pascal compiler, and using it to compile a prog, then I wouldn't have had an initial success and the good feeling. I suppose it is similar to the trick some people use when learning a second spoken language, say Spanish: They read a well-known English-language story or poem in Spanish. Getting the compiler up and running was a struggle but now that I have that feather in my cap, the rest should be easier and more relaxed. Bascially, I have my nice little computer back. LD > Yep, there is a steep learning curve ahead, but it's really worth it. > Open Source Software has done a lot for me than any variant of MS > Windows will ever do. D That inspires me to keep with it. LD > I'm not anti-Microsoft - but the more you get into Linux, > the more you realise why other people think Windows Sux, > furthermore you are siding them with those views. D What gets me is the gaul (sp) or the chutzpah (sp) of the co-founder of ¬. He sold something he didn't own, and that didn't really exist, to people who shouldn't have bought it. And if they had only waited a bit, none of this thingamjig would have happened. DB > Learn to search Google for your problems (unless you have paid > your $20 to be a member, then you can bug them on #wlug ;) D Google sure is an amazing library. I have used it alot for research into old texts and historical events (I write historical fiction in my spare time). I haven't paid $20. If I prove unable to get my jetstream running, and they do, it will be worth $20. GW > So, have you found yourself Pascal compilers yet? D Yes indeed. I used to use the one available on freepascal.org (and .com) so when I switched to Unix I simply went back to the same well. I had to log on as root ('su') then I could instal. I reckon 'tar' should be called 'dar', for disk archive, rather than tape archive. The Vim editor and the KWrite editor are both much better than what I am used to. And the shell (Konsole) or Terminal Program they call it, is so versatile. It didn't take me long to discover 'ls' instead of 'dir', and './' before the assembled and linked file; and forward slash instad of '#' (oh well, my keyboard doesn't want to give it). PL > We try hard to put any advice or hints into the wlug wiki. > http://www.wlug.org.nz/ > If you find some piece of information you found difficult to find, > please put it somewhere in the wiki. D This resource is very handy to know about. My thanks again to all who responded to my query. David C in Huntly, NZ, amateur Pascal progger, digest member.

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WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Ross Hamblin 10 Jul '04

10 Jul '04

Thanks to all who offered to attend and assist with this. For those who asked about timetables, we would like to have people present to offer advise and demonstrate OSS/Linux between 10am and 4pm on Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th July. As it is difficult to make extra space, we will need to use the computers on display in the store which will mean using Knoppix or similar distro which runs from CD. We will be giving away free Open Office.org and Knoppix CDs to customers who attend. We will be advertising this event in the newspaper and it would be good to include your logos if possible, please advise on this or send to me off-list. We also have facilities to photocopy A4 DLE type brochures if you provide me with a PDF or OO.o doc of your brochure we can produce them for you. Regards, Ross. Ross Hamblin DSE (NZ) Ltd.

4 3

vnc over wireless router
by Stephen Pearce 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

Help ... I'm trying to run vncviewer on a laptop running Fedora 2 speaking to a redhat 9 server via a 802.11b wireless router .. the server connects to the router via a utp ethernet link .. the laptop via its own internal 802.11b card ..(Truemobile 1400 using ndiswrapper) .. I can ftp and telnet no problems .. I have enables vncserver on the server ... however I keep getting a connect error 111 when I try to use vncviewer to access the server ... any suggestions?/alternatives for remote access to the server X11 desktop? Thanks Stephen

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RE: [NZOSS-OpenChat] WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Chris Day 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

Further to Ross's note, a few comments: - Radio & Press will be advertising NSOSS / WLUG involvement - We will be giving away XC4031 OpenOffice.org CD http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/en/product/XC4031 or XC4034 Knoppix/Morphix Linux Dual CD Set http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/en/product/XC4034 - Linux can be installed on display Desktops or Notebooks as long as they are recovered with MFR restore CD's at the end of the weekend - just zap the boot record and our guys can do the recovery. - Other suppliers will be at this very public event so I a way, we are all on show. Bear in mind DSE's goal in supporting OpenSource is to provide consumers with a choice. We have no preference and will not be influenced when it comes to meeting customer demand. - There are some hot deals on offer so be prepared for allot of customers - be prepared for group demonstrations. - We also need to consider OSH implications so demonstrators will need to sign in. Can't think of anything else at this point - have a fantastic weekend, I'm off to try out Linux nVidia drivers... -----Original Message----- From: Ross Hamblin Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 4:03 PM To: openchat(a)nzoss.org.nz; wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: [NZOSS-OpenChat] WLUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend Thanks to all who offered to attend and assist with this. For those who asked about timetables, we would like to have people present to offer advise and demonstrate OSS/Linux between 10am and 4pm on Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th July. As it is difficult to make extra space, we will need to use the computers on display in the store which will mean using Knoppix or similar distro which runs from CD. We will be giving away free Open Office.org and Knoppix CDs to customers who attend. We will be advertising this event in the newspaper and it would be good to include your logos if possible, please advise on this or send to me off-list. We also have facilities to photocopy A4 DLE type brochures if you provide me with a PDF or OO.o doc of your brochure we can produce them for you. Regards, Ross. Ross Hamblin DSE (NZ) Ltd. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: openchat-unsubscribe(a)nzoss.org.nz For additional commands, e-mail: openchat-help(a)nzoss.org.nz

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Any Hints or Advice?
by David7 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Hello I have just gone over, or come over, to Unix - Mandrake 10.0 they call it. It feels great. Are there any hints or advice for a new guy? David C in Huntly, NZ, amateur Pascal progger, digest member.

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Cool things that were released today
by Craig Box 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

New NVIDIA drivers (which now work on kernels with 4k stacks) http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_1.0-6106.html Mono v1.0 http://www.mono-project.com/about/index.html Craig

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RE: [wlug] LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Chris Day 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

>>> I am still planning for this (I only heard about it when you did ;) Well, you looked like you needed a break from that router - istead of breaking it! Got the MIB sorted yet????

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RE: [wlug] LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Ross Hamblin 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Hi Daniel and WLUG, Thank you for this offer to help out. It will be good to have some LUG members there and we really appreciate your support on this. Some NZOSS members have also offered to attend, so should be an excellent opportunity to show what Linux/OSS can do. I am still planning for this (I only heard about it when you did ;) ) but expect to get back to you tomorrow afternoon as to what equipment will be available there etc. Regards, Ross. Ross Hamblin - DSE (NZ) Ltd. > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Lawson [mailto:daniel(a)meta.net.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2004 15:20 > To: Chris Day; Ross Hamblin; Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse > Computer Weekend > > > Chris, Ross. > > The Waikato Linux Users Group would like to help out at this > event. What organisation is needed between us to make this happen? > > We'd like to borrow a couple of machines you stock to install > recent versions of linux on, if that's at all possible. We > feel this would look better than having x assorted random > home pcs running linux as demonstration units. Maybe a couple > of desktops and a laptop, if that's ok? And, of course, > you'll have windows machines already for demonstrating OSS > apps for windows. > > We'll look at organising some info sheets regarding Linux > /OSS / WLUG as well. > > Regards, > > Daniel Lawson > President, > Waikato Linux Users Group > Phone: (021) 381-013 > email: daniel(a)meta.net.nz > > >

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LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton Powerhouse Computer Weekend
by Chris Day 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

DSE(NZ)Ltd would like to take our involvement with NZOSS & LUG one step further by inviting representatives to participate in our Hamilton Powerhouse Computer weekend on 17/18 July 2004. During this weekend, representatives from many of our computer suppliers will be there demonstrating computer hardware - we feel it is an opportunity for experienced NZOSS & LUG members to offer our customers advice on Open Source software options. I do not believe we are at a point where we have the room or experience to pull off a full on public install fest. But I do believe it's an opportunity to discuss with consumers what Open Source is all about, perhaps enlist new members and provide consumers with free Open Source CD's to take home and try out (we will be supplying these). I still have some internal finalising to do but I would like to see a range of computers running Open Source software and am looking to list members to help demonstrate the software running on these and hand out the CD's (and LUG/NZOSS pamphlets?) - this in-store demonstration area has yet to be finalized along with any additional needs we identify. If you are a senior member and would like to help us out, please contact ross.hamblin(a)dse.co.nz - Ross and I will be doing our best to make this event successful. Any feedback would be gratefully appreciated. I appreciate this is late notice but we are concerned with the commercial implications of broadcasting an event like this prior to it occurring. Also, I understand that some members may take offence at this message or our approach. If this is the case, then I do sincerely apologise - please bear with us as we figure out the right way to do this. Kind regards, Chris Day Senior Buyer DSE(NZ)Ltd

4 5

firewall hell
by Glenn Ramsey 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

I'm having some trouble with the ipmasq firewall setup on my Debian box. For those that aren't familiar with how it works, the iptables commands are specified in a number of .def/.rul files in /etc/ipmasq/rules. I think these get run by run-parts when /usr/sbin/ipmasq is run. Also ipmasq gets run whenever ppp goes up or down. The default ipmasq with ppp installation firewalls the internal (masqueraded) machines but does not protect the firewall machine itself. A while back this machine got rootkitted (over a dialup link!) and at that time I discovered that when the ipmasq docs talk about it providing a firewall, they don't mean the masq machine itself. I then modified one of the the ipmasq rule scripts using some info from the wlug wiki and it all worked. Recently I was looking at trying to make the audio work in Windows Messenger[1] and discovered that my firewall was no longer working and I couldn't see any dropped packets in the logs ( which led me to think that logging wasn't enabled). I must have upgraded something, don't know what, that caused the firewall to stop working. I discovered that there are some default scripts that provide what I want in the ipmasq examples and installed those. Now I'm firewalled but the firewall drops DNS forwards from my internal bind so things don't work so well. However if I do: $/etc/init.d/ipmasq stop $/etc/init.d/ipmasq start after dialing in then it works. What should I be looking for to diagnose the problem? As far I can tell, which admittedly is not very far, the configuration is fine and is essentially the default install with only changes made to the config definitions to specify which ports to block. Any advice appreciated. g [1] If anyone has done that, any advice would be appreciated on that too. -- Glenn Ramsey <glenn(a)componic.co.nz> 07 8627077 http://www.componic.co.nz

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RE: [wlug] Any Hints or Advice?
by Lindsay Druett 07 Jul '04

07 Jul '04

I strongly agree with Gavin. Sounds like you have had a good start anyway. Not many people have come me saying "I have just installed (whatever) Linux on my machine and it feels great", a lot of people have said, "I tried to get Linux working on my machine, but I couldn't get it to work...", and a lot of those people were IT professionals - they have got sucked in too deep into the dark side. Yep, there is a steep learning curve ahead, but it's really worth it. Open Source Software has done a lot for me than any variant of MS Windows will ever do. I'm not anti-Microsoft - but the more you get into Linux, the more you realise why other people think Windows Sux, furthermore you are siding them with those views. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gavin Denby [mailto:redhat(a)ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2004 08:30 > To: Waikato Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [wlug] Any Hints or Advice? > > > If you an get into Hamilton on a Monday night, (Sadly I cant > ) get along > to the lug meetings. > > At the beginning a lot goes over your head, just let it go, > meeting the > people and the tips you pick up by watching them will make your life > easier, you will learn a lot, and you will build good friendships and > strong networks. Linux is more community than OS IMHO ..... > And the OS > really rocks. > > Mandrake is good place to start in Linux, but most of the > local lug use > Fedora, Although there are a lot of die hard debian fans too. > I'm on a > slackware derivative nowadays, but we all learn from each > other and help > each other. > > Also Google is a very good search engine for linux users. > > > David7 wrote: > > >Hello > > > >I have just gone over, or come over, to Unix - Mandrake 10.0 > they call it. It > >feels great. > >Are there any hints or advice for a new guy? > > > >David C in Huntly, NZ, > > amateur Pascal progger, digest member. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > >Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > wlug mailing list | wlug(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Unsubscribe: http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

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[NZOSS-OpenChat] LUG / NZOSS support for DSE Hamilton PowerhouseComputer Weekend
by Craig Box 06 Jul '04

06 Jul '04

Mark Foster writes... > I appreciate this is late notice but we are concerned with the > commercial implications of broadcasting an event like this prior to it > occurring. Also, I understand that some members may take offence at > this message or our approach. If this is the case, then I do sincerely > apologise - please bear with us as we figure out the right way to do > this. > Hi Chris, Ross et al. I personally have no issues whatsoever with this being posted either on NZLUG or the NZOSS Openchat list. I'd also be quite happy to trek down to Hamilton and wave the flag, for one of the two days of that weekend. Also happy to help coordinate if any Aucklanders want to carpool, etc, and can bring my Laptop (a DSE Product funnily enough) running Knoppix-from-CD (its not HD installed, sadly). Likewise theres always my Windows XP Install running Mozilla Firefox as its default browser, Thunderbird for Email and other open source applications for media, etc etc... Ross based on the number of volunteers you get and which day or days they prefer to attend, let me know when suits. Thanks for the opportunity to give Linux and OSS a plug :-) Mark.

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Dumping old stuff
by Daniel Lawson 04 Jul '04

04 Jul '04

As the topic says - I won't add glamour to this :) I've got a pile of old books and software that have sat on my shelves, unused, for a long time. For various reason I don't think they are suitable for donation to the WLUG library, nor do I think anyone will read them anyway. If anyone wants any of the list below, contact me offlist. Also, if anyone has any bright ideas regarding how I can get rid of this in a way that allows other people to make use of it if possible, please let me know. I hate dumping stuff - even though much of this has little value at all any more :). I've listed the books and delphi on trademe, but if you want them let me know. I doubt they'll move quick. It's all going to the dump if I don't get any other suggestions (I have no idea if second hand stores would even touch these...) Books: Sams MS SQL Server DBA Survival Guide Hitch-hikers guide to Visual Basic and SQL Access 97 Unleashed Informix Unleashed Using Sybase Access 2 Developer's Guide Office 97 Unleashed Mastering Delphi Software: Delphi 5 Professional PC Handyman Games: Asheron's Call Reach for the Skies (5.25") Cannon Fodder Command & Conquer - Red Alert (CD) Spelljammer - Pirates of Realmspace (5.25") Populous II and Powermonger Sowrd of Aragon (5.25" i think) Warlords II Diablo and Hellfire expansion pack. Hardware: USB Webcam, win98 only (will kill win2k/xp), some support in linux last i looked.

2 2

logging in ipmasq
by Glenn Ramsey 04 Jul '04

04 Jul '04

Hi, Anyone know how to turn on logging in ipmasq in Debian? The docs in /usr/share/doc/ipmasq do not mention it. g -- Glenn Ramsey <glenn(a)componic.co.nz> 07 8627077 http://www.componic.co.nz

1 0

IBM and the JVM
by s swami 03 Jul '04

03 Jul '04

Hi guys, here is text of what I'll put up somewhere. Thought I'd get some feedback here first. It's meant to piss IBM supporters off -- don't take it personally. I make some unsubstantiated claims but wtf everybody else is :-) Cheers, Sid --------------------------------------------------------------------- In an open letter to Sun, http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-openlet IBM offers to work with Sun on an open-source implementation of the Java Virtual Machine (JVM). Here is how the letter came about. o IBM had/have been bleating for a while that Sun should open-source the Sun JVM. o Some open source enthusiasts had/have been doing the same - i.e. bleating*. o Analysts and journalists just repeat what the different factions say. Some seem to conflate the language, the virtual machine and the runtime libraries. It was after an insistent journalist (enraptured by IBM's self-professed commitment to an "open-source Java") repeated the call (at a public event) that someone from Sun asked: why does IBM not open-source its own version of the JVM? i.e. why are the buggers haranguing Sun? IBM jumped at this with the open letter mentioned above. In short: they will gladly work with Sun on a common open-source implementation of a JVM if both Sun and IBM offered resources including source code (to their respective JVMs). Excuse me IBM, who asked you to open-source Sun's JVM? I'd like you to open-source /yours/ please. IBM have been veritably shouting their desire for an open source JVM but they are not willing to open source their own implementation. They will if Sun does the same (that's what it boils down to). This smacks of hypocrisy at least and hidden agendas. Why bring Sun into it? Why not BEA or Oracle or ... the open source community? The strength of the present arrangement is that the specs are there for all to see, vendors implement their own JVMs (and they have) and the consumer chooses one or more implementations based on what he requires and his estimation of the competing JVMs. This leads to a thriving industry with high quality JVMs. It gives me choice and I like that. Great. So what's the problem? Simple: IBM's JVM just can't compete with Sun's. Both of them are free for us to download and use. Try them yourself. Yep, IBM can't even give its JVM away. Whose JVM do you have running on your machine? Now Sun's JVM is a beautiful thing! And it is Sun's JVM that will take hardware customers from IBM to Sun. For the same money, Sun's JVM running on Solaris and Sun hardware will outperform the corresponding offering from IBM -- I reckon. And IBM knows it too. My conclusion: IBM are telling fibs, really obvious ones too. Hey whattup IBM? Cat got ya source? ------------------------------------------------------------------- * we have lots of sheep in New Zealand.

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Re: [wlug] Cool things that were released today [OT]
by Matthew Browne (DSL HN) 02 Jul '04

02 Jul '04

At 13:03 2/07/2004, Oliver Jones wrote: >Yep. I completely agree. My stock answer to people who say they want a >computer to surf and do email with I say "buy a Mac". Problem is they >don't like the fact that a Mac is $1000 more expensive than a Windows >box. You can buy a brand new Windows box for $500? Where can I get one... http://store.apple.co.nz/public/product/group.php?pgid=AP13

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Re: [wlug] IBM and the JVM
by s swami 01 Jul '04

01 Jul '04

On Thursday 01 July 2004 20:43, you wrote: > Sid > > Your arguments seem emotional, poorly founded, irrational > overreactions stemmed from unrealistic and idealistic goals, and > you would be best to drop the subject. What are the unrealistic and idealistic goals you refer to? How is it emotional, poorly founded and an overreaction. You would be best to do better :-) > If you really want to help, do some real research into what IBM is > doing give them real-world reasons to do what you ask, things that > managers will respond to. They have themselves given reasons for open-sourcing their JVM. I'm just asking them to do it. > This isn't a personal attack and I apoligise if this is the way I > come across. I really think you're overreacting here, try to > >approach the situation pragmatically. Hey no worries Dr Spooner. But unfortunately you've got yourself into an interesting situation. Please read carefully what you have written and you will see that all you have done is given us your opinion with "jack" to back them up. > Best Regards And to you my friend. Sid.

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Samba (re Monday's meeting)
by Daniel Lawson 01 Jul '04

01 Jul '04

One thing I forgot to mention when Greig asked me to talk about Samba in general, is that I am completely and utterly sick of samba playing catchup. Samba will always chase behind Microsoft's implementation. If Samba ever fully catches up and can play the AD game perfectly, and has zero problems, MS only has to move to another structure. It's a futile game to play at. Current Samba implementations fall foul of many of the problems Greig talked about. It's almost the same, but it is subtly different in many ways, and this causes problems. There aren't really any decent unified configuration systems yet, so running an LDAP backed samba system which *works* is not a trivial task to set up. The entire domain model of samba is tedious to work with unless you're running MS gear. That said, it's the only option right now. There are ways around it which have been implemented on large university networks, however support is tedious. I'm looking at using a custom GINA (the login part of windows) which will auth via Kerberos or LDAP, and having an AFS based network (Andrew File System), a distributed file system). It's not all doom and gloom, I guess. I get fairly frustrated with the attitude that seems to dominate overall major linux development which says that we have to mimic Windows. GNOME and KDE have done this, Samba is perpetually doing this. If Linux actually *is* better than Windows, why do we have to mimic them? We could at least be mimicing Mac OS X. I'd like that. Daniel

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